Will Someone help please

[Elizabeth]

I am looking for the parents of Anne John I have found her married to William Jenkins 1850 Haverfordwest. and on the 1841--1851--61--71 Census for Mathry
She says that she was born in Llanrhian 1831. I f you can help I will be in you dept.
Thankyou
Elizabeth (in OZ):)

[Hugh Thompson]

Hi Elizabeth, there is this christening in Hugh Wallis's IGI site for
05 JUL 1840 Llanrian, Pembroke, Wales. not all christenings happened straight away after birth so she could be yours?
Father David John.
Mother Martha.
Hugh Wallis's site address if you don't have it is,

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hughwallis/

[jeeb]

Hi Elizabeth,

Ann/Anne John & William Jenkins are both common names in Wales. However if you are certain you have the correct marriage then all you need to do is get the marriage certificate and Anne's father will be named.

William Jenkins & Anne John Oct/Dec 1850 Haverford West, vol 26 page 1032


If you have her in 1841, who is she living with, she would only be 10?


Jeremy

[michaelpipe]

1841 census she appears in a family made up as follows:
HO107; Piece 1444; Book: 23; Civil Parish: Mathry; County: Pembrokeshire; Folio: 10; Page: 12

Castle Morris village, Mathry, Pembrokeshire

William John, age 50, Smith
Martha John, age 50
Thomas John, age 20, Smith
Anne John, age 15
William John, age 14

[trudy4656]

IGI has the following:-

William John married Martha Jackson 8th August 1816, Mathry, Pembroke, Wales

This could be a possibility.

Trudy

[jeeb]

1841 census she appears in a family made up as follows:
HO107; Piece 1444; Book: 23; Civil Parish: Mathry; County: Pembrokeshire; Folio: 10; Page: 12

Castle Morris village, Mathry, Pembrokeshire

William John, age 50, Smith
Martha John, age 50
Thomas John, age 20, Smith
Anne John, age 15
William John, age 14

Think is unlikely to be her Michael, she is too old.

Jeremy

[michaelpipe]

Think is unlikely to be her Michael, she is too old.

Jeremy

I never take ages in 1841 census too seriously. However, this Anne is still alive and kicking unmarried in 1851, age 25

[Elizabeth]

First I must thank all that have replied to me
I have been looking through my records again and I do have a marriage cert for William and Anne and it says that her father was named James John. But I have a 1841 census sent to me from DYFED Council and it says her father was Henry John. HELP: confused:

Elizabeth in OZ

[DBCoup]

Have you looked at the parish records?
Bishop's transcripts, 1739-1879 Parish Church of Llanrhian FHL BRITISH Film
105180 Item 2

I am a big fan of using Census records and the IGI as direction finders only. There is NO substitute for looking at the original records even though in this case they are merely transcripts.

[jeeb]

First I must thank all that have replied to me
I have been looking through my records again and I do have a marriage cert for William and Anne and it says that her father was named James John. But I have a 1841 census sent to me from DYFED Council and it says her father was Henry John. HELP: confused:

Elizabeth in OZ

Hi Elizabeth,

Firstly the father's name given on the marriage certificate is far more likely to be correct than a census sent to you by a council.

I have managed to find Anne in 1841 & 1851 although I am a bit confused to your original thread when you stated you have them in 1841 & 1851 in Marthy?

1841 census
HO107/1444 Folio 6 Page 5
Llanrithan, Pembrokeshire
James John 25 Ag Lab
Mary 25
Ann 10
Mary 8
Phebe 6
Margaret 4
Henry 2
(All born county)

1851 census
HO107/2479 Folio 47 Page 8
Llanreithan, Pembrokeshire
James John 40 Ag Lab born St Davids
Mary wife 40 born Llanhowell
Henry son 11 born Llanrythan
Hannah dau 8 born Llanrythan
Sarah dau 6 born Llanrythan
William son 4 born Llanrythan
David son 2 born Llanrythan
James son 1mth born Llanrythan
William Jenkins son in law 22 visitor born Marthy
Ann Jenkins dau 20 Ag Lab wife born Llanrythan
James Jenkins Grandson 1mth born Llanrythan

Jeremy

[Squaredancer]

According to Google Maps Mathry and Llanrhythan are only 2.4 miles apart :)

[jeeb]

Have you looked at the parish records?
Bishop's transcripts, 1739-1879 Parish Church of Llanrhian FHL BRITISH Film
105180 Item 2

I am a big fan of using Census records and the IGI as direction finders only. There is NO substitute for looking at the original records even though in this case they are merely transcripts.

Hi,
Censuses are original records in so much as the information was provided by the individuals themselves and then copied down onto formal sheets by enumerators. If you are referring to the 'transcribed information' and their indexes then I agree there are many mistakes and one must refer back to the originals.
Bishop's transcripts are merely copies of parish registers that were sent each year from 1598 to the Bishop. They are just as susceptable to 'human error'

The IGI falls short because it contains a lot of submitted entries, much of this is inaccurate, but the entries taken from the original source by members of LDS ie parish registers and often BTs is generally correct (provided the original was correct in the first place!)

Jeremy

[Geoffers]

Bishop's transcripts are merely copies of parish registers that were sent each year from 1598 to the Bishop. They are just as susceptable to 'human error'

I wholly agree - BUT - just occasionally, ATs/BTs correct errors in parish registers - see this example (http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39760).

Also, once in a blue moon you will find ATs/BTs that contain entries not included in the actual register. The parish on Sloley in Norfolk has quite a few of these and I am at the moment working on fiches for Little Plumstead, using both the registers and ATs (The registers for the second half of the 18th century are abysmal) - there I've found one marriage and two baptisms in the ATs which are not included in registers. In Aylsham, Norfolk, one marriage in a register does not include the home parish of the groom, both are described as 'of this parish' - but the ATs record his home parish, and indeed there is a corresponding baptism there for someone of the same name.

Yes, they are just copies and definitely susceptable to human error - but everyone now and then they contain little snippets of useful information.

One thing not pointed out about the IGI is that even for the submitted entries, it is just an index. It doesn't include all the detail from a register, it doesn't include the additional notes, the names of contributors to collections (Stratton Strawless, Norfolk), lists of people who were vaccinated (Blickling, Norfolk), journals kept by the Rector (http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7520)

The transcripts of day books which are parish registers, and transcripts of transcripts which are ATs/BTs do contain mistakes, but they are for the most part the best we've got.

[Elizabeth]

Hi Jeremy
Thankyou for your help I think that you have solved the problem for me I am sure that what you have is the right family. The 1841 census for Ann was what the council sent me
but it was in Llanrhian. And I found William with his Brother and sister in Mathry age 11 years. I am not sure how I found Anne and William in Mathry 1851 all I have for the census is ED 4a Schedule 24 I think that I made a mistake somewhere along the line. I don't know what I would do without this Forum everyone is so helpfull I am getting rid of all my brickwalls at last but I still have some to go. Thanks again
Regards Elizabeth

[jeeb]

I wholly agree - BUT - just occasionally, ATs/BTs correct errors in parish registers


I totally agree that anyone taking research seriously should explore every avenue and Geoffers is quite correct when he states BTs sometimes contain extra information to Parish registers. When I was compiling The Worcestershire Burial Index I would add information to the slips from different sources, usually gravestones. On one occasion I found a gravestone dated 1711 with an age of the deceased so as this would be the only probable source of an age that early I searched out the slip to add the information but could not find it. I looked again at the parish register and the burial was not recorded so I checked the Bishop's Transcript for the same year and found 5 burials not recorded in the PR in the same year. What I find quite disturbing is that if someone was able to afford a gravestone in 1711 they must of been of some standing in the community and they were omitted from the register. It doesn't leave much hope for the paupers and numerous infants that died. I estimate and I stress only estimate that probably 10% of burials are missing from PR, certainly earlier ones.

Sorry this topic has strayed away from Elizabeth's first thread.
Jeremy

[B.J.D.]

I am looking for the parents of Anne John I have found her married to William Jenkins 1850 Haverfordwest. and on the 1841--1851--61--71 Census for Mathry
She says that she was born in Llanrhian 1831. I f you can help I will be in you dept.
Thankyou
Elizabeth (in OZ):)

Hello Elizabeth,
As promised, My long suffering and I went to Mathry to check out the headstones. There are no Jenkins, which is very unusual for this area. There are however a number of "John's" (surnames) buried here.
The graveyard, sadly is not well looked after and the ivy and litchen has to be removed in order to read many of the headstones.
By coincidence I have two g-g's, "Martha" and "Henery" (yes two e's) buried there so if you have Christian names and dates of your "John" side I will take a closer look and if they are there we will photograph the headstones and forward the pic's on to you.
We took a few snaps of the church, general store (Which I don't think has changed, inside or out, since our ancestors shopped there) and surrounding views. These we will send on.
We have learned that some g-g-g's were from Llanrhian, (near-by) so we're hoping to find a graveyard with tales to tell there.

One more thing. You used the address "Parkros" for one of your ancestors.
As this area would have been almost entirely welsh-speaking at the time. It is my guess that this has been somehow changed from "Parc Rhos" which translated to english is "Rose Park".
Although I can't yet find it, it conjures up a much nicer picture.
Hope this helps.

[Orielbenfro]

[QUOTE=Elizabeth;250897]I
She says that she was born in Llanrhian 1831. I f you can help I will be in you dept.
[QUOTE]

I can confirm there is no Ann/Anne John baptised at Llanrian in circa 1831. The nearest I can find are Ann John baptised at Mathry in 1822, Anne John baptised at Hayscastle in 1825 and Anne John baptised at Llanfairnantygof in 1826.
Is there any possibility of non conformity ??
Rgds
Oriel Benfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname

[Elizabeth]

Thank's for your help her birth date is 1831. Matbe they were non conformist.
Thank you again
Regards Elizabeth