harriet amy taylor & thomas taylor

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Hello all,

I have a predicament. I have my great grandfather's parent's wedding cert from 1860 and I know they were married in Brooke just outside Norwich. I also know that my great grandfather was born in Brooke in 1867. However, I went to the Family records office last week to search the 1861 census and looked through the whole village of Brooke with no sucess.

My great great grandparents were called Harriet and Thomas Taylor. Thomas's father was called James. Harriet was nee Lambert and both were born around 1838/39/40.

1871 census onwards doesn't have Thomas listed, he was either not around or dead, so I don't have his place of birth, if indeed his details were entered. Harriet and her three sons are listed 1871 onwards though.

I asked for a look-up a while ago for these two in 1861 but no-one could find anything. Perhaps someone could search for Harriet Amy Taylor only and not Thomas for 1861?

Any suggestions of how to proceed would be welcome too
thanks
james

[Pam Downes]

Hi James,

Going to ask a stupid question, but are you sure that you looked in the correct Brooke census? Because there is more than one place in the UK called Brooke. (I'm assuming you went to the Family Records Centre in Myddelton Street.)
A name that you will quickly become acquainted with if you stay on the forum is Geoffers, and Geoffers has been very busy indexing the smaller towns and villages in the 1861 Norfolk census. So I wondered which CD (of the ACBD 1861 Norfolk census set) Brooke would be found on. Referred to the TNA catalogue and there's about half a dozen Brook/Brooke. The Norfolk one is piece 1229, on CD5, which has not yet been indexed, but as it's only about 14 pages thought I'd have a very quick look. (You're very honoured as I don't usually do look-ups.)
Wonderfully clear image, plain as day, beautiful writing.
RG9/1229 folio 141 page 7
Thomas TAYLOR, head, 20, ag lab, Norfolk Shottisham
Harriet -do- , wife, 20, Norfolk Kirstead

I assume these are yours.
A word of caution about Thomas' birthplace. I have written it exactly as on the census, *but* Shottisham spelt this way is in Suffolk. Shotesham is in Norfolk.

Had I not found this entry then you have a choice of looking for them on the 1871, and seeing if they have a child who could have been born in 1861, and then checking on the 1861 in the village of the child's birth.
Try FreeCEN
http://freecen.rootsweb.com/
Try Geoffers and Andy's fantastic Norfolk Transcription Archive at
http://www.genealogy.doun.org/transcriptions/index.php
And finally doing what most of us have to do - draw a circle round the village and then gradually work your way round all the villages in the circle, gradually expanding the circle, till you hopefully find your people.

Pam Downes

[Geoffers]

My great great grandparents were called Harriet and Thomas Taylor. Thomas's father was called James.
Just to add to Pam's response and in case you don't have the detail:

1851 census
HO107/1818 f283 p3
Steet, Great + Little Poringland
James TAYLOR, hd, mar, 42, ag.lab, bn Shottesham-Nfk
Ann TAYLOR, wf, mar, 32, bn Thurston-Nfk
Thomas TAYLOR, Son, Unm, 10, Scholar, bn Shottesham-Nfk
Jenney TAYLOR, Daur, Unm, 6, Scholar, bn Shottesham-Nfk
Mary Ann TAYLOR, Daur Unm, 3, bn Shottesham-Nfk
John TAYLOR, Son, 9mth, bn Poringland-Nfk

When you get to the stage of looking in the parish registers, be aware that there are two neighbouring parishes (and so two sets of registers) -

Shotesham All Saints

and

Shotesham St.Mary and St.Botolph with St.Martn

If you find it difficult to get to the FRC in London, then purchasing the excellent 1841 census from Archive CD Books may help to show which of the two parishes your family were living in at this time.

Geoffers
Charlbury, Oxfordshire

[Ron Leech]

purchasing the excellent 1841 census from Archive CD Books may help to show which of the two parishes your family were living in at this time.


Can you guide me as how to operate that, particulary for an area that you are not familiar with? :)

[Geoffers]

Can you guide me as how to operate that, particulary for an area that you are not familiar with? :)
part 1 of 3.......

I think you're asking as to how to identify different parishes which have similar names - e.g. the various places with Shotesham, Plumstead, Burnham, Creake, etc in their name.

First off is to buy decent large scale maps - at least the 1:50,000 scale as a minimum. If you don't know an area they can help enormously to pick out boundaries, obvious trading routes, how close communities were etc. For those whose research is moving back into 18th century Norfolk, a couple of excellent maps have been published in book form, Faden's map of 1797 and Bryant's map of 1826. Personally I would not venture into researching an area without decent maps.

continued……

[Geoffers]

part 2 of 3

To use this case from this thread as a very simple example; the thought processes might be:

1861 census (looked up by Pam), shows that Thomas Taylor was 20, living in Brooke and born in Shottisham (sic).


Problem: Is this Shotesham in Norfolk or Shottisham, Suffolk?

Checking a map shows that Brooke is close to Shotesham, Nfk and so it is quite possible that this is the place referred to in 1861.

The map also shows that there are two places of that name.
The parish list on the NRO website http://www.norfolk.gov.uk/leisure/a...ropratintro.htm (http://www.norfolk.gov.uk/leisure/archives//pratlist/nropratintro.htm)
shows that the two places each had their own set of registers.

Problem: Which one might hold the baptism of Thomas and possibly the marriage of his parents and is there any way to confirm whether the researcher needs at look at Shotesham or Shottisham?

continued.....

[Geoffers]

part 3 of 3
Try the 1851 census and a Thomas of the correct age is shown as living at Poringland with his parents (check the map, Poringland is close to Brooke and Shotesham)

1851 census
James TAYLOR, hd, mar, 42, ag.lab, bn Shottesham-Nfk
Ann TAYLOR, wf, mar, 32, bn Thurston-Nfk
Thomas TAYLOR, Son, Unm, 10, Scholar, bn Shottesham-Nfk

So this could be the family the researcher needs.

Note that Thomas and his dad are shown as born Shottesham (sic) in Norfolk. But again the precise parish is not included. To me, a simple way of trying to narrow down the parish would be to see if James (and possibly Thomas) are shown in the 1841 census. If by luck Thomas is shown as a couple of months old, it would seem most likely that he was born (and bapt) in the parish in which he was living and so that is a reasonalbe place to start.

In this case, the Shoteshams are quite small and so neither parish register is going to take long to check.

I am one of many who have been researching for several years and I am aware that I may not fully explain reasoning and this may lead to confusion. As with many hobbies, there is jargon and abbreviations with which not everyone is familiar. Slowly you can pick up odd ideas and bits of information so that you can solve problems either directly or indirectly.

I hope that makes sense and answers your query - if not please ask again.

Geoffers

[Ron Leech]

Thanks Geoffers that is a clear and lucid explanation. As a map lover I will take up your suggestion and buy those old maps. As you may remember my lot are on the fringe of Norwich and my biggest problem is not knowing the area. Plotting where the parish boundaries begin and end will go a long way towards understanding the problem. Fortunately I have copies of the 1861, 1871 census from ACDB and 1851 and 1881 from LDS, so the only one I still need is the 1841.

[Geoffers]

Thanks Geoffers that is a clear and lucid explanation. As a map lover I will take up your suggestion and buy those old maps.
Glad it made sense - in case it helps, Faden's map of 1797 and Bryant's of 1826 were both republished by Lark's Press, Guist Bottom, Dereham, Norfolk NR20 5PF.
If you want to contact them directly, I have their 'phone number as 01328 829207

Faden's map ISBN is 0 948400 09 9
Bryant's map ISBN is 0 948400 71 4

Geoffers

[Punchline]

Hi
I have come to this forum using the same search as James - 'Harriet Amy Taylor & Thomas Taylor' in a quest to finding more information on my ancestors. I have sent James an email but no answer - if you are still out there James please get in touch or if anyone have an up to-date contact details I would be very grateful.

Thanks
Ray Taylor