Trouble with Geography

[Sue Simonich]

Dear Senior Chatters:

After consulting numerous maps, plus googling and googling, I am having a difficult time establishing where POORSTOCK is. The best I can tell is that it might be near Bridport. |help| please!

Also, is anyone aware of all the various Winterbornes, and if there is any relationship between them all? They seem to be spread all around the county. There is Winterborne Abbas, Zelston, and others.

Thanks for the leg up folks.

|hug|

[MarkJ]

Beaminster, Dorset way according to GenUKI :)

http://www.uk-genealogy.org.uk/genuki/DOR/1891census.html

Mark

Edit: Now called Powerstock apparently!

See the Wikipedia entry for Powerstock (which mentions the change) -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powerstock

[Sue Simonich]

I have been trying to track my Newburgh family and find them in various locations all near the sea coast. Winfrith Neuburgh and Lulworth areas are important to the family. I was looking for some great map sites to back up my conclusions about places and found these.

http://www.dorsetshire.com/old/mapindex.html


http://www.anglo-saxons.net/hwaet/?do=show&page=Maps

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/ancient_hispania_1849.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.emap.ro/old_europe.php&usg=__jcxod5RMPSP66zg2HSWk-XFClnQ=&h=1502&w=1810&sz=603&hl=en&start=139&tbnid=ZN_s

I hope they might be useful to others who are studying England's ancient history.

Thanks for the Poorstock info. William the Conqueror apparently placed the Novo de Burgo family (aka Newburgh) in Poorstock area. Interesting stuff.

Sue

[Dorset Girl]

Thanks for that link Sue - I hadn't come across the Dorset maps before and there was also a link to Burton Bradstock which I hadn't seen either. As most of my family seem to have settled, lived and bred like rabbits in Dorset anything to do with the county is useful!
Cheers Marion

[michaelpipe]

Beaminster, Dorset way according to GenUKI :)

See the Wikipedia entry for Powerstock (which mentions the change) -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powerstock

I think the Wikipedia reference is fabricated, as I have many documents for my wife's family naming Powerstock as Powerstock back into the 17th century.

Michael

[Dorset Girl]

Powerstock
Povrestoch 1086 (Domesday Book), Pourstoke 1195, Porestoc 1217, Porstok 1224. The second element is Old English stoc 'place, secondary settlement, outlying farmstead'. However the first element, which this name shares with North and South Poorton, is obscure, although it may be an old river name.

Taken from "Dorset Place Names. Their Origins and Meanings" by A D Mills, page 122

Not sure if this is of help but would suggest that Poorstock is a derivation or alternative spellng for Powerstock

Marion

[susanx123]

I have family (DAW & CRABB) living in Powerstock Dorset from 1840.

Michelle

[Dorset Girl]

Dear Senior Chatters:

Also, is anyone aware of all the various Winterbornes, and if there is any relationship between them all? They seem to be spread all around the county. There is Winterborne Abbas, Zelston, and others.

Thanks for the leg up folks.

|hug|

Sorry Sue - meant to add this in as well - taken from the same source "Dorset Place Names" - A D Mills

"Winterborne, River - there are two rivers called Winterborne in Dorset, each of them giving name to several villages along their banks. The South Winterborne is a tributary of the River Frome, the more northerly Winterborne is a tributary of the River Stour. The name means 'winter stream', that is one that flows most strongly in winter, from Old English winter-burna"

There follows details of 12 Wiinterborne xxxxxx's and 2 Winterbourne xxxx's. If you need particulars details on any one just let me know.

Cheers, Marion

[Sue Simonich]

Have been working on Poorstock again and thought this might be something people would be interested in.

POORSTOCK HISTORY
This comes from the Hutchins' History of Dorset, addenda de corrigenda Vol. 2. Pg. 858-59 and was written after Hutchins, by other historians.

Poorstock when Domesday was compiled contained a considerable tract of wood-land, and in the time of King John it was a forest. The King’s insatiable passion for hunting is well known. He already possessed the Royal forests of Blackmoor, GILLINGHAM [later mentioned as a holding of the Newburghs], and Bere, and had converted the Isle of Purbeck from a hare-warren into a forest. Poorstock was the only other forest in the county, except Cranborne and Holt, and the King could not book its retention b a subject. He therefore procured a release of it from Robert de Newburgh who “either by choice or compulsion,” as Hutchings suggests, exchanged it with the crown for other lands.

At the death of Gerbert de Perci, as it would seem, the great estate of the Arundels fell, in equal and undivided moieties, to Roger de Poles and Roger de Newburgh, no doubt as coheirs of the Arundel family, though the connecting link has not in either case been discovered.

By the seventh year of his reign, King John granted to Robert de Novo Burgo, in exchange for Pourstock, Stafford and Nettlecumb, which the said Robert had give to the King, eight librates of land in Fordington, to hold to the said Robert and his heirs in demesne, as head of his barony, in like matter as Poorstock was previously held of the King in capite, performing the same service which he and his ancestors were accustomed to do to the King and his ancestors for Pourstock and Stafford. In addition to these eight librates the King also granted to him a hundred solidates of land in the same vill of Fordington, to hold to him and his heirs of the Abbot of Cerne, in exchange for the said manor of Nettlecumb, which the said Robert held of the said abbot by service of 100s. per annum. The said Robert and his heirs will acquit the King and his heirs against the said abbot yearly, in respect of those 100 s. which he used to receive out of Nettlecomb. The King further directed that all the knights and freeholders of the said Robert hold of the said barony, extra tenuram, of Pourstock and Stafford and Nettlecomb should do service (sint intendentes et respondents) to said Robert and his heirs in respect of the said lands which the King gives in Fordington, as head of his barony, in like manner as the said tenants previously did to the said Robert, and the honour of Pourstok. On the day following the date of the above charter a precept was issued to the Sheriff of Dorset to give seizing to Robert de Novo Burgo of eight librates and 100 solidates of land in Fordington, which the King had given him in exchange for Porstok, and the sheriff is to take possession for the Kings own use of Porstok, Stafford and Nettlecomb, which had been granted to him by the said Robert. In the same year, Denis, Abbot of Cerne, and the Convent there, quitclaimed to the King, in perpetuity, whatever they had or claimed in the park and vivary (“in parco et vivario”) of Nettlecumb to do therewith as he pleased, for that he has delivered to them from Roger de Pole and Robert de Newburgh and from their heir all the land of Nettlecomb, in order that it might remain to the Abbot and Convent and their church of Cerne for ever. Witness, W. Gray, Chancellor; He de Well, Archdeacon; William Joscelin de Well, Peter de Stok, William de Stok, William de Monte Acuto and others. It does not appear, however, when Robert de Novo Burgo acquired the second Moiety of the barony; for we have seen that, so late as 3 John 1201 that moiety of it still belonged to Robert FitzPain. But the charter of the Abbot of Cerne speaks of Roger de Pole as one of the grantors of Nettlecomb, whereas it is pretty certain that he had been dead many years, and that the property passed immediately from Robert de Pole, his successor, to Robert FitzPain. Perhaps a negociation had long been pending before the exchange was finally completed. A Further obscurity is cast on this transaction by the fact that in the octaves of St. Simon and St. June, 9 Hen. III. 1224/5 Roger Fitz Pain (who was son and heir of Robert FitzPain remised and quitclaimed to Robert de Novo Burgo and Margery Belet, and their heirs, all his right in the manor of Pourstock, in consideration of a release by the said Robert de Novo Burgo and Alice Briwere of all his right in a moiety of the vill of WORTH. This looks as if the FitzPains had not previously wholly relinquished their claim to a portion of the manor. Herdcot in Somersetshire appears to have been afterwards substituted for the land at Fordington, for 28 Oct. 9 John (1207) , the sheriff of Dorset is commanded to deliver to Robert de Novo Burgo the vill of Erdecott with its appurtenances, provided it is not worth more than 10 ₤. In 5 Edw. I (1276), amongst certain enrolments is one at the request of Henry de Newburgh, declaring that King John gave the manor of Herdcot to Robert his father in exchange for the manor of Poorstock, by a charter, which in a time of war was burnt. In the Testa de Nevill it is stated that Robert de Novo Burgo (about 20 Hen. III?) 1235 held in Herdcot, of the King’s demesne, ten librates of land, give by King John in exchange for Purstok. The same evidence also says: “The King holds Pourstok in demesne, and gave for it in exchange to Robert de Novo Burgo land in Somerset. These are the tenants who hold the said fee of the said Robert. Thomas de Musorel holds three knights’ fees in Witlakton (Whitelackington), Thomas de Chauflurs (Champflour) three fees in Hiwis (Huyshe Champflower), Herbert de Hanwee (Wu. De Kaunne) on fee in Eisse (Ashe Herbert), William FitzRobert one fee in Wichestr, William FitzHenry one fee in Kendecumb (Kentcombe, co. Dorset), Osbert Dacus (Denis) one fee in Wrokeshal (Wraxhall), William Bubb one fee in Melbir (Melbury Bubb), Robert de Welles, one fee in Swnnewyh (Swanwich), William de Windlesham and Hugh de Buxington one fee. And the said Robert de Novo Burgo does service to the King of two knights’ fees from the Conquest of England”

There is a diagram on how the land was passed down on pg. 859

1194 Roger Newburgh was dead for in that year Robert Belet accounted for 1000 marks to have the King’s benevolence, and for the custody of the lands which had been Roger de Novo Burgo’s. He continued to pay off this sum by installments He had no doubt obtained a grant of these land in wardship during the minority of Robert de Newburgh son and heir of Roger. Some portion of the estate of Roger de Newburgh was about the same time granted to other persons. In 6, 8, and 9 Richard I. Winfrith was in the hands of the crown as an escheat from Peter de ‘Estane to whom it had probably been committed during the same minority and the sheriff account for its ferm as well as for 100s. which the said Peter used to receive annually in the same vill by gift of Roger de Novo Burgo. In 8 Rich I Thomas Achard paid ten marks for the custody of the land of Gerzie (Gussage) which had belonged to Roger de Novo Burgo. Roger de Poles probably died about the same time and Roger and had lands in Dorset, Somerset and Devon.

1199 Robert de Novo Burgo seems to have attained his majority. In that year he is charged 30 marks for scutage for his share of the fees of Roger Arundel, and in 1201 he accounts for 20₤. scutage, of which 63 s. 4 d. were paid into the Exchequer by the hands of Robert Belet, leaving him in debt 16 l 16 s. 8 d. In 1201 Robert de Novo Burgo and Robert FizPain accounted for 40 ₤. scutage of the fee of “Poursted” (Poorstock); each of them paid half this sum and the honour was for some reason not explained, in the hands of Herbert de Burghm who owed for the same 30 marks for 15 knights’ fees; but nothing was paid. This seems to have been the share of Robert de Newburgh, for at the same time Robert FitzPain owed a similar sum on the same account, though he also was in default.