Pasks of Thorney

[chrisp]

Hoping someone can help with Pask family in Thorney. I have John Pask born 1814 in Thorney, illegitimate, mother Sarah Pask. Believe she had a sister, Mary also living in Thorney. Can anyone help with information about Sarah?
Chris

[sue pask]

hello, just seen your thread, my husband john pask's aunt millie researched our family right back to sarah pask at thorney many years ago. we rang peterborough reg office to research sarah pask and they said that their info was quite interesting ! could this be the illigitamate link? we have a folder going back to sarah and johns grandfather and great-grandfather were railway engine drivers and they had moved to the midlands from thorney. if you call up Councillor John Pask Wolverhampton city council, you will see our details and photo, call if we can be of any use... regards sue and john pask.

[janbooth]

Hello Chris,

It looks as if Sarah may have had 2 other children in Thorney:

Alice PASK baptised 1819 in Thorney, illegitimate daughter of Sarah
George PASK baptised 1818 in Thorney, illegitimate son of Sarah, baptised aged 10 months

George looks to have ended up in Eye Northamptonshire according to census records and married a Mary FITZJOIHN on 26 December 1840 at Eye. According to the Northamptonshire Marriage Index, he was of the parish, full age, bachelor, Labourer, father not given. Mary was of the parish, full age, spinster, Servant, father Robert FITZJOHN, Labourer.

Given that John PASK also seems to have ended up in Eye according to census records, could this be the marriage of his mother Sarah PASK in Eye on 12 March 1837:

Harriden WOODCOCK, of the parish, bachelor and Sarah PASK, of the parish, spinster, by banns.

No, it can't be as Sarah WOODCOCK is shown as born c1816 at Thorney, Cambs in the 1851 census of Eye. The 1841 census is interesting though:

HO107/815, folio 15, page 22
Eye Town

Sarah PASK 60 Widow Born in county NO
Sarah WOODCOCK 25 do NO
Matilda LEHAIR 9 YES

1851 census of Eye
HO107/1747, folio , page 13
Main Street

Sarah PASK Head Widow 70 Laundress Cambs Whittlesea
Sarah WOODCOCK Daur do 36 do do Thorney
Matilda LEHAIR Serv 19 General Servant Northants Eye

Sarah PASK & Sarah WOODCOCK are both in the 1861 census of Peterborough St Mary.

The surname of Matilda could be relevant given the following information.

Sister Mary looks to have had 2 illegitimate children:

William L PASK baptised 1826 in Thorney, illegitimate son of Mary
Isaac PASK baptised 1827 in Thorney, illegitimate son of Mary

Isaac's full name, from his marriage index record in Thorney in 1848, looks to be Isaac Leahair PASK - perhaps a clue to his father's name??

There is no subsequent marriage for either Sarah or Mary PASK on the Cambridgeshire FHS Marriage Index.

HTH

Janet

[Al Pask]

Hi I am Alan Pask I have also managed to trace my family back to George Pask and Mary Fitzjohn in Thorney but it all get very sketchy before that can you help to shed any light on this

[richard40]

Hi,Thorney Cambs and Eye Northants are in fact villages adjoining, ie; 3 miles apart, in fact both are now in cambridgeshire and in Peterborough postal district, the border at the period in question passed between them.

[janbooth]

Hi Alan,

I can certainly help with Mary FITZJOHN's parents as I have quite a few Northants CDs. However, George PASK is slightly different. Given that his mother Sarah looks to have been baptised in Whittlesey, Cambs according to census records, I think your best bet is to look at the parish registers for Whittlesey and see if you can trace her line back. I have to go out this morning, but will have a look this afternoon and get back to you.

Janet

[davidcarca]

Cambs Archives online catalogue at

http://
calm.cambridgeshire.gov.uk/ArchiveCatalogue/SearchArchives.htm

has an interesting entry for whom I assume to be George Pask:
"Bastardy bond of Henry Girdlestone, farmer and Grazier, and Thomas Sted Watson merchant, for the son of Sarah Pask widow; Henry Girdlestone alleged as father 4 December 1817"

So Henry Girdlestone is George's alleged father, but it's interesting that Sarah is described as "widow". Was she really a widow, and if so of whom? But it ties up with her status in the 1841 and 1851 censuses.

The Baptism Index at:

http://www.cfhs.org.uk/cgi-bin/baptismindex.cgi

shows William and Sarah Pask baptised a daughter in Whittlesey, Sarah's birthplace, in 1804, which would fit with Sarah's alleged birth of 1780/81. And the Burial Index on the same site shows a burial of William Pask in Whittlesey in 1811. I would check out Whittlesey parish register for more detail of these events, and also to look for the marriage of William and Sarah to get Sarah's maiden name. Might be a complete red herring of course!

The Cambridgeshire Archives catalogue also shows a settlement examination for Sarah Pask on 20 Nov 1847 which might add to what is known of her background.

David

[janbooth]

Hello again Alan,

Looking further into Sarah PASK's ancestry, I cannot find a baptism for Sarah c1780 in the Cambridgeshire FHS Baptismal Index at either Whittlesey (1851 census) or Thorney (1861 census) or indeed in any of the Cambridgeshire parishes nor can I find an appropriate baptism for her daughter Sarah WOODCOCK nee PASK. Sarah PASK born c1780 does not appear in the Northamptonshire Baptismal Index 1751-1812 either. However, it looks as though sister? Mary PASK married the father of her two illegitimate sons, William LEAHIR, at Eye on 10 June 1829 (source Northamptonshire Marriage Index) by licence. They are in Thorney in the 1841 census plus 6 children two of which, Mary aged 20 and Isaac aged 13, must have been born prior to their marriage.

Your ancestor George PASK seems to remain in Eye, Northamptonshire. Wife Mary dies sometime between 1861 & 1871 (death registration June qtr 1868 at Peterborough reg district, aged 53) when George is shown as a Widower. George is still alive in 1901 and is now living with daughter Sally & son in law George FORTH.

Now to Mary PASK nee FITZJOHN's ancestry. According to her marriage record her father was Robert FITZJOHN, Labourer and the census records indicate she was born in Apethorpe, Northants. IGI Family Search has her baptism as 24 December 1815 at Kings Cliffe and her parents as Robert & Elizabeth. The 1851 census of Apethorpe (HO107/1746, folio 392, page 15) shows Robert FITZJOHN as aged 62, a Gamekeeper's Assistant, born Kings Cliffe. The Northamptonshire Marriage Index 1700-1837 shows the marriage on 12 October 1813 at Tansor of a Robert FITZJOHN of Kings Cliffe & Elizabeth MOTT of the parish. This appears to fit in very well with the baptism of their first child, Ann, shown on Family Search as 27 August 1814. The Northamptonshire Baptismal Index 1751-1812 shows the baptism on 29 November 1789 at Kings Cliffe of a Robert FITZJOHN son of Robert & Dorothy, Labourer. Siblings are Ann bap 1 Aug 1785, Elizabeth 1 Mar 1793, Mary 4 Aug 1781, Sarah 20 Aug 1783, Susanna 26 Aug 1787 and a previous Robert bap 7 Nov 1779. There are two possibilities for Elizabeth MOTT both baptised at Clipston, one on 20 May 1782 parents Richard & Ann and the other 15 June 1792 parents Timothy & Mary. I can't find a baptism on the Baptismal Index for Robert FITZJOHN senr but on FreeREG there is the baptism of a Robert FITZJOHN at Kings Cliffe on 3 October 1756, father William which is certainly a possibility. I also cannot find a marriage for Robert & Dorothy on the Northants Marriage Index.

HTH anyway but as regards George's mother Sarah, I think the only way you are going to solve her parentage is to check the parish registers of Whittlesey either via your local LDS Family History Centre or by purchasing a PR Transcript CD of Whittlesey. Presumed sister Mary LEAHAIR nee PASK gives her birthdate & place as c1805 Whittlesey so they were obviously either born there or settled there when they were both very young so hopefully you should be at least able to trace their parents' burials if not their baptisms.

Good luck

Janet

[davidcarca]

In my earlier message I referred to the baptism of a daughter of William & Sarah Pask in Whittlesey in 1804. This daughter was Mary. I think it's likely that she was the mother of the illegitimate William 1826 and Isaac 1827, making her the daughter, rather than the sister, of Sarah. Mary's age of 36 in 1841 fits perfectly, but the clincher is 1851 where, still in Thorney she's aged 46 b Whittlesey

Thus Mary born 1804 was the half sister of George born 1817

David

[davidcarca]

Looking further into Sarah PASK's ancestry, I cannot find a baptism for Sarah c1780 in the Cambridgeshire FHS Baptismal Index at either Whittlesey

Probably, Janet, because if you searched against PASK you wouldn't have found her because that wasn't her maiden name. How many Sarah baptisms are there in Whittlesey c 1780? Probably too many to be useful!

Do you have the Marriage Index? We need the marriage of William PASK and Sarah (--?--) possibly in Whittlesey probably before 1804.

The key is the 1818 Bastardy Bond where Sarah Pask is named as a widow.

David

[Al Pask]

Thank you Janet

[Al Pask]

If anyone is interested I am building my tree on the following web site
www.
pask.org.uk/Pask-p/ui66.htm#a45 Chart 48
if anyone has anything to add please feel free

[janbooth]

Unfortunately, the Cambridgeshire FHS Marriage Index does not show the names of spouses so if you do not know both surnames you are up a creek without a paddle! I had considered the fact that Sarah PASK may have been married and her spouse died prior to her having had Alice & George the children who were described as illegitimate in the Thorney transcriptions but again there is no way of looking for her baptism in Whittlesey on the pre 1801 Baptismal Index or on the Marriage Index without her surname. What I can tell you is that there is a marriage for William PASK at Whittlesey St Mary in 1803 so that is pretty certain to be his marriage to Sarah.

Oh BINGO!! Thank you FMP as they have the marriage in 1803 at Whittlesey of a William PASK & a Sarah GOODE - source Boyds Marriage Index. However, I cannot find a corroborating entry on Cambs FHS Marriage Index for a Sarah GOODE at Whittlesey St Mary in 1803 nor her name appearing on the Baptismal Index c1781 at Whittlesey. Will check some more.

Janet

[davidcarca]

Excellent (Good, even)! Janet, is she in the Cambs Index as GOOD - which is as she appears in the FMP index. I don't subscribe to them so can't see the full entry

I didn't realise that Cambs Marriage Index doesn't cross reference the surname of the other half. Pity!

David

[janbooth]

Another BINGO moment. I have found Sarah on Cambs FHS Marriage Index. They have transcribed her maiden name as GOUDE and the marriage having taken place in 1803 at Whittlesey St Mary which ties in with the entry for William PASK. There is also a marriage shown in 1803 at Whittlesey St Mary for a George GOODE - perhaps a relative given that she named one of her sons and your ancestor as George? Still cannot find her on the Baptismal Index but the earliest GOODE/GOUDE baptism I can find in Whittlesey is in 1802, so I wonder if the family originated elsewhere and moved to Whittlesey when Sarah was quite young.

HTH further

Janet

[janbooth]

George GOUDE born c1781 is still in Whittlesey in the 1841 census (HO107/82/8, folio 7, page 7). He is shown as an Ag Lab, aged 60, born in the county and is living at Little Linden with wife Mary also aged 60 and born in the county and an Abraham GOUDE aged 1 plus a Robert & Jane REDSHAW both aged 21.

Janet

[Al Pask]

Sorry guys but I am new to all this, I am afraid you have lost me

[davidcarca]

Your George PASK was baptised 1818 in Thorney, illegitimate son of Sarah PASK, baptised aged 10 months. Sarah PASK, his mother, was the widow of William PASK, who died in 1811. She was née Sarah GOODE or GOUDE who married William PASK in 1803 at Whittlesey St Mary

George's father, who was comforting the young widow, is alleged to have been Henry GIRDLESTONE - see post #7 above for details of the bastardy bond he entered into.

Thus whilst George had the surname PASK, he didn't have a drop of PASK blood in him!

Janet has been trying to find Sarah's baptism to get to her parents, so far without success. The George GOUDE that she's found might be connected to Sarah, possibly a brother.

WARNING - all of the above needs to be confirmed by checking the appropriate parish registers. So far it's just a hypothesis where we've taken various events from indexes and interpreted them.


David

[janbooth]

Well summarised David, I couldn't have put it better myself (vbg)! Alan, as David has said you really need to check through the appropriate parish registers now. Looking through the register of Thorney will confirm any baptisms of children to William and/or Sarah PASK after their marriage in 1803 and any comments that the incumbent may have entered therein - sometimes very revealing. I would think you should be able to get a copy of the Bastardy Bond for George PASK from Cambridgeshire Archives if you so desire. I would also then look through the parish registers of Whittlesey for any records pertaining to Sarah PASK nee GOODE/GOUDE. As I said, she does not appear on the Cambs FHS Baptismal Index and nor does the George GOODE/GOUDE who could perhaps be her brother but you may well find other GOODE/GOUDE records which may give you a clue as to her parentage such as witnesses to her marriage record, if she was resident at Whittlesey at the time of her marriage or any GOODE/GOUDE burial records which could possibly be her parents.

Good luck and let us know if we can help further.

Janet

[janbooth]

Further to the above, could this be George's reputed father in the 1851 census of Crowland, Lincolnshire - not a million miles away from Thorney:

HO107/1747, folio 838, page 58
Spalding Road

Henry GIRDLESTONE Head Mar 62 Annuitant Camb. Thorney
Elizabeth do Wife Mar 60 Lincoln Crowland
Mary MASON Servant Un 17 Servant do do

I wonder if Henry left a will? If he did it might prove very interesting especially if he had acknowledged being the father of George PASK.

Janet

[grisel]

This old post on another forum has a wonderful description of a Henry Girdlestone of Crowland.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,118007.0.html

[Al Pask]

Thanks David/Janet you have been very helpful I will keep in touch and let you know any progress I make, have a good Christmas

[janbooth]

He sounds a fantastic character doesn't he grisel! Good luck with your research Alan and do let us know how you get on and have a Happy Christmas.

Janet

[Nick Pask]

As a fellow great great great great great Grandson to George Pask, i'd like to thank all contributors here to help me passed what I thought was going to become a brick wall in my research. I guess i need to start researching the Girdlestone bloodline now. I do have a couple of queries which someone may be able to shed some light. Do we know who the other gentleman Thomas Sted Watson was who was named in Henry's bastardy bond. Also Sally also had 2 other children John born 1814 and Alice born 1819 both after the death of William. I wonder if they have the same parentage?