Who is Betsy Whiting?

[Peggy]

|banghead|

On the 1891 census, living with widow Sarah Weller (nee Simpson) on Gt. Tindal St. in Ladywood, is:

Betsy WHITING, cousin, unmarried, 22, Ladies Companion, b. Birmingham

I have no idea who Betsy was, and can't find her on an earlier census.

I'd be grateful if anyone could apply a new set of eyes (or brains) to the problem.

Thanks,

Peggy

[Jo Simpsons]

Could Betsy be short for Elizabeth? Theres an Elizabeth age 14, niece, in Yarnton 1881 and in 1871 Elizabeth with her parents in Birmingham All saints.

Jo

[Peggy]

Thanks Jo. Ancestry isn't letting me view any images at the moment, so I can't look at these again.

I don't have any faith in the one in OXF. There are no known family ties to the area, and the age isn't within a year.

I've seen the All Saints one. The problem is that this Elizabeth also shows up with her mother Hannah in Handsworth, Staffs (a promising location, since Weller was born there) in 1891!

Does it happen that people were recorded in 2 households on the same census??

There's an Eliza age 1 in 1871 in St John Birmingham. But nothing about the parents rings any bells. No one I have was born in Broadway Worcs or in Gloucestershire.

Was Betsy a nickname for anything other than Elizabeth??

Peggy

[Jo Simpsons]

Hi Peggy,
as far as i know Betsy, betty etc can all be short for Elizabeth, along with Eliza, liz etc :D
I'll send to your email all the elizabeths that could be possibles so you can see.
Jo :)

[Peggy]

Thank you, Jo. I got them. And the Ancestry error messages :eek: have now gone away.

Maybe I should start trying to spot a marriage for this Betsy, and then see if she has any relatives living with her in 1901. :D

Best,

Peggy

[Geoffers]

Does it happen that people were recorded in 2 households on the same census??
Yes it does happen. The cases that I have found are either:

1) Where someone was old enough to be at work and is recorded at both workplace and home

2) Less frequent (in fact quite rare), where someone was at university or boarding school and the parents have noted the young adult/child down on their census as well.

I don't suppose you know on which side of Sarah Weller's family, that Besty Whiting was related?

Geoffers

[Peggy]

Hi Geoffers,

I guess Betsy was at work, one place or another. (I don't know what the "Ladies Companion" bit is. Was she the paid companion to some Lady, and staying the night with Sarah? Or was my gr-gr-grandma putting on airs?)
But Betsy was 22, so likely to have been away from home for a while. :confused:

[I don't suppose you know on which side of Sarah Weller's family, that Besty Whiting was related?]

Nope. I haven't caught any Simpson or Weller (or anyone else I know) marrying a Whiting. Could even be a relative of one of Sarah's first 2 husbands! Sarah & daughter Julia have been leading me on a merry chase for decades. Julia never told the same story about her background twice, and she probably inherited her powers of invention from her mother. :)

Thanks!

Peggy

[Peggy]

Hi again Geoffers,

You said which side of Sarah's family, didn't you? Believe it or not, I have never thought of it that way! I've really expected the girl to be a relative of her late husband. (His niece was also in Sarah's household.)

Now that you have knocked down that brick wall in my brain, I have to start allowing for the possibility that Betsy was on Sarah's mother's side of the family. A couple of my distant cousins in England have searched parish registers in vain for the marriage of Sarah's parents, so we don't know her mother's surname. Perhaps it was Whiting! Could be a new clue.

Bless you! :)

Peggy

[Geoffers]

You said which side of Sarah's family, didn't you? Believe it or not, I have never thought of it that way! I've really expected the girl to be a relative of her late husband. (His niece was also in Sarah's household.)

I frequently can't see the wood for the trees, that's why these forums are so good; they can give a fresh perspective on things.:)

A couple of thoughts:

What was the age difference between Sarah Weller and Betsy Whiting? - A large age gap might suggest that Betsy was the daughter of one of the younger siblings of Sarah's parents.

What was the occupation of Sarah Weller's husband? - Do you have his death certificate? If so, who was the informant on the certificate and did he leave a will?

N.B - Don't forget that relationships in the 19th century were more loosely described than now - 'cousin' may not just refer to a 1st cousin.

Geoffers

[Peggy]

Hi Geoffers,

[that's why these forums are so good; they can give a fresh perspective] That's what I meant about fresh eyes and brains.

[age difference] 37 years. I think I have the issue of Sarah's siblings, and of her father's sibs, accounted for. But we don't know about the mother's side! She was born in Salford, and the marriage record isn't found there. I have her photo, but not her maiden name. I have the death cert and will for Weller (a Publican), and have traced his children. (My Julia SAID the man was her father! See the other post here looking for Peter Farrell - - - her father - - - on the 1861.) But I have info on only 2 of Weller's sibs, so Whiting could be from another. And there's always Farrell. And his predecessor Carter! Both mystery men.

Thanks for the thoughts! Btw, I see why you are ageing (over 1000), but are you still mostly harmless? :)

Peggy

[Geoffers]

She was born in Salford, and the marriage record isn't found there.
Just to make the search more difficult, I take it that's the Salford near Manchester and not the small village just north of me. I notice that there is a Whiting family in Salford in the 1881 census, with the father born in Coventry - probably nowt in it, but maybe worth storing away somewhere just in case.



I have her photo, but not her maiden name. I have the death cert and will for Weller (a Publican), and have traced his children. (My Julia SAID the man was her father!
Just thinking about the marriage of Weller and Simpson, were all the children born in the same area? Where was the earliest known child born and how old were the parents then? - Does this help to narrow down the search for the marriage at all?



Thanks for the thoughts! Btw, I see why you are ageing (over 1000), but are you still mostly harmless? :)
Now totally harmless since the kids got big enough to beat me up when they come home from school. ;)

Geoffers

[Peggy]

Hi again,

It's the Salford in Warks. But I think it may be or have been in another county when boundaries moved. Sarah's mother (also Sarah, wife of William Simpson) is the one born in Salford whose marriage we can't find. Both of them were born abt. 1795. I have the baptisms of the children in Evesham starting 1819, but they didn't marry there either.

Sarah the daughter (b. 1831) had ? children by Mr. Carter, at least 2, including my gr-grandma Julia, by Peter Farrell (who was a widower & may have had some by his first wife), none by Weller (who had 9 of his own) or by #4 Mitchelson. I have the certs for her last 3 trips to the altar. Took almost 10 years to work it out, but I have them! Have I mentioned that Julia did her best to muddy the trail? :)

Thanks,

Peggy

[Peggy]

Of course, just to complicate the already complicated, it could have been some place that sounded like Salford.

The children ended up born in Eastham rather than in Evesham on one census. I'm told that there was a strong regional accent in the Vale of Evesham.

Peggy

[Geoffers]

[It's the Salford in Warks.]

Now would that be Salford Priors - a bit north of Evesham - or - Salford, Oxfordshire, just WNW of Chipping Norton and so close to the Warks border that it's freqeutnly confused as being in that county?

Geoffers
Charlbury, Oxfordshire

[Jo Simpsons]

Reading this with interest. Would love to see the outcome.

Jo :)

[Peggy]

[Would love to see the outcome.]

Me too, Jo! I seem to make a major "Julia" discovery every 3 or 4 years. If we both live so long. . . . |laugh1|

Geoffers, I'm still chewing on this. "Where were you born? "Salford." My distant English cousins assumed that she meant Salford Priors in Warks, so why not the census taker? Hmmm. I wonder when one of them is making another research trip to the area. :-)

Thanks so much for the new look at my problem. This is hammering on a bigger brick wall than just finding Betsy on a census!

Best,

Peggy

[Geoffers]

[QUOTE=PeggyI'm still chewing on this. "Where were you born? "Salford." My distant English cousins assumed that she meant Salford Priors in Warks, so why not the census taker? Hmmm. I wonder when one of them is making another research trip to the area. :-)[/QUOTE]
Salford Priors would make sense in relation to Evesham.

However - If it does end up as t'other Salford near Chippy and you'd like some photos, get back in touch , 'tis only a short trot up there.

I'll have a think about any other ways that this can be resolved.

Geoffers

[Peggy]

For Jo, Geoffers, and anyone else who was following this saga,

SALFORD:
I'm convinced that I have things solved on the Salford end.

William Simpson married Sarah Bevins 17 OCT 1814 at St. Martin's Birmingham. Witnesses: Joseph Smith & Elizabeth Abel. The rest of the page in the parish register is illegible.

William Bevin & Sarah Baylis were married 21 Apr 1794 in (ta da) Salford, Warks, both "of this parish."

Sarah dau. of William and Elizabeth Bevin, born December 29th 1794,
Christened Jan 4th 1795, in Salford.

Baptism: Oct 22nd 1815. William son of William and Sarah Simpson, abode Abbots Salford, Trade Blacksmith, vicar Henry Holyoake. (A new big brother for my Sarah! --- and he shows up in Evesham, where the rest of them were in the 1830s and 1840s.)

It all fits!

WHITING:

This is the most complicated story I've ever heard. :-) A contact says that Betsy was (are your ready?) the daughter of the 2nd husband of the sister of Sarah Simpson Weller's sister-in-law. If she was also the daughter of the sister of the sister-in-law, she was born a year or so early. :-)

I'm told, Jo, that she is indeed the one found in Yarmouth; in 1871 with her grandmother, and in 1881 with her uncle and cousins.

This answer is possible. These people did like to push the outside edge of the envelope when it came to defining family!

Any questions? :-)

Cheers, and thanks,

Peggy