William Gray, Bethania Smith, and James Mobbs

[Ann65]

At long last thanks to the latest issue of Romany Roots (the RTFHS Magazine) the question marks surrounding these three are resolved. Its so blindingly obvious we should have realised!!

Bethania Smith married William Gray and had a son William in 1822 as we know. She then married someone who was James Gray aka Mobbs - only he was actually, James Mobbs. Bethania and the entire family just used the alias Gray (her previous married name).
No wonder we couldnt find a trace of James Gray, he didnt exist!.
James Mobbs and Bethiah Smith were apparently married in 1816 (I know not where).

Of course William Gray then married her sister, Tabitha, and their son Sidney married one Violet Smith before he married Edingirl Smith aka Mary Ann.

Now I found a very interesting baptism of a Violet Smith in 1826 at Ruskington Lincs, the daughter of Rosetta Smith, a single travelling woman. Rosetta Smith later appears on the census with Sidney Gray.

According to the same source (Romany Roots mag) and in the same article, there is mention of Francis Brown and his wife Rosetta Smith. Same woman? I think so....

Francis Brown and Rosetta Smith had: Adilarania (Dillerany) c.1843 Harmston Lincs, Maria c.1845 Ingham Lin, Harriet c.1836 Blyborough Lin, William c.1849 Tealby Lin and under the Smith surname, they also had Christopher Smith c.1834 Fulbeck Lin.

[JoanneM]

I saw that too, but didn't make the connection. That does make sense, doesn't it?


Francis Brown and Rosetta Smith had: Adilarania (Dillerany) c.1843 Harmston Lincs, Maria c.1845 Ingham Lin, Harriet c.1836 Blyborough Lin, William c.1849 Tealby Lin and under the Smith surname, they also had Christopher Smith c.1834 Fulbeck Lin.

So presumably the Harriet born c.1836 Blyborough is the Harriet Brown/Smith who appears twice on the 1861 census at Reepham and married Joshua Gray? She gives her birthplace as 'Willowton' on that, and there's a mile between Blyborough and Willoughton.

[Ann65]

Sounds about right to me.

The James Mobbs and Betha Smith Marriage took place at South Luffenham Rutland 21.11.1815

:)

[JoanneM]

....and under the Smith surname, they also had Christopher Smith c.1834 Fulbeck Lin.

Ann,

Just found one more, in Leicestershire, from the IGI (extracted entry):

4th May 1828, Redmile, Leics - Eliza daughter of Francis and Rosetta Smith

Jo.

[JoanneM]

The Francis Brown/Rosetta Smith information now makes a lot more sense of an 1861 census entry I'd found in Ludford Parva, Lincs, all Browns except for two Grays who are visitors.

William Brown head mar 55 besom maker Lincs Ponton
Unetta wife mar 50 net maker Lincs nk
Eliza dau unm 16 Lincs Wotton
Joseph son unm 24 ag lab Lincs Martin
William son 14 farm lad Lincs Granby
Martha dau 7 Lincs Belton
Julia dau 2 Lincs Alford
Aaron son 10 Lincs Mareham-le-Fen
Jem(?) nephew unm 23 besom maker Lincs Granby
Delarana niece unm 19 Lincs Armston
Chas. Nephew mar 25 besom maker Lincs Saceby(?)
Isabella niece mar 20 not known
Rosetta sister-in-law mar 52 Leics Womerdon
Mizaah Gray visitor 8 Lincoln Granby
Eliz. Gray visitor 6 Lincs Caistor

[JoanneM]

Mizaah Gray visitor 8 Lincoln Granby


For Mizaah Gray read Messiah Gray, do you think?

[JoanneM]

And there's three more on that census that I'd missed (the tally marks after Eliz. had confused me, easily done when I'm tired, lol).

George Charlotte, cousin, unm 22, ag lab, Lincs Hareby
Louisa Brown, niece, 1, Lincs Ulceby
Delerana Brown, niece, 3, Lincs Ulceby

I was laid in bed last night thinking about that census entry, and I knew there had been some connection with Ulceby with it (my own family were from there). That entry has bothered me for a while as the Delerana Brown aged 3 is about the right age to be the Delerina Smith who married Rabbi, but I'd never been able to connect them in to all the others.

[Ann65]

For Mizaah Gray read Messiah Gray, do you think?

Yes.

This Messiah, I believe, was Violets child, with her dying by the time of the census.
Elizabeth was probably a younger sister of Messiah. Rosetta Smith would be their granny and most likely helped to bring them up.

[Ann65]

William Brown head mar 55 besom maker Lincs Ponton - s/o Thomas Brown & Mary Burton
Unetta wife mar 50 net maker Lincs nk - believed to be Unity Smith (unproven)
Eliza dau unm 16 Lincs Wotton
Joseph son unm 24 ag lab Lincs Martin
William son 14 farm lad Lincs Granby
Martha dau 7 Lincs Belton
Julia dau 2 Lincs Alford
Aaron son 10 Lincs Mareham-le-Fen
Jem(?) nephew unm 23 besom maker Lincs Granby
Delarana niece unm 19 Lincs Armston - daughter of Francis & Rosetta
Chas. Nephew mar 25 besom maker Lincs Saceby(?)
Isabella niece mar 20 not known
Rosetta sister-in-law mar 52 Leics Womerdon - Rosetta Smith/Brown
Mizaah Gray visitor 8 Lincoln Granby - Messiah s/o Violet and Sidney
Eliz. Gray visitor 6 Lincs Caistor - probably another daughter of Violet & Sidney
George Charlotte, cousin, unm 22, ag lab, Lincs Hareby
Louisa Brown, niece, 1, Lincs Ulceby
Delerana Brown, niece, 3, Lincs Ulceby - probably the Delerana Smith/Brown who married Rabbi.

[Ann65]

Francis Browns family :

Francis Brown (Snr) was supposedly b.cir 1804 Laxton Notts (According to census.)
He married Rosetta Smith and she is listed as sister in law of William & Unity Smith - possibly she was sister to one and sister in law to the other knowing our families!!

Francis & Rosetta had:

Eliza Smith c.1828 Redmile Leic
Christopher Smith c.1834 Fulbeck Lin
Harriet Brown c.1836 Blyborough Lin
Adillarania/Delerany Brown c.1843 Harmston Lin married Anyan Hewitt 1862 Caistor
Maria Brown c.1845 Ingham Lin
William Brown c.1849 Tealby Lin

I believe this Francis Brown is the same Francis Brown who was father of Francis Brown b.cir 1835 Gosberton Lin who married Unity (b,cir 1832 Lincs). This is the Francis who gave an alias of "Henry Stapleton".

This generation had:

Alberdine Brown b.cir 1854 Goxhill
Isabella Brown b.1857, c.1858 Louth
Black Bird b.cir 1859
Corder Brown/Cox Bird b. cir 1860 Ulceby
Eancy Brown b.cir 1865
Frightful Brown b.cir 1866
Mary Ann Smith c.1867 Bonby
Black Sandy b.cir 1868
Nipper Harriet/Runtwed b.cir 1871 Attercliffe Yk

There is a Francis Brown, gypsy in an adult baptism in 1870 at Grasby Lincs which could possibly refer to either of these Francis Browns.

It is possible that William Brown who married Unity was the elder Francis brother.

[JoanneM]

Thanks for the extra info.

Chasing these people about the census, William and Julia Brown, son and daughter of William Brown and Unity Smith are in Cleethorpes in 1881 with 'Sisten' (Sistance) Charlotte and his wife Lemontina (Matilda) Boswell, which makes the possibility that Delerana Brown might be the Delerana Smith who married Rabbi look even more inviting.

On the census entries where I know I'm looking at the right person she gives her birthplace as Worksop, and a birthdate in the early 1850's. Her age on her marriage cert also confirms this birthdate. There is an entry on freebmd for a Dil*i Smith, registered in Sheffield in 1859 (looking at the actual image the name is Dilorani Smith). Whilst I can see that she could have been registered in Sheffield if they'd travelled northwards after her birth in Worksop, the date seemed just too far out. However, with this discovery, and the possible entry of her aged 14 and with Alice Smith in 1871, her birthdate could be in the late 1850's.

Anyway, I've bitten the bullet and sent off for the 1859 birth certificate. When it arrives I'll let you know what it says. How I'll know it's her I have no idea, seeing as I really don't know who either of her parents were, but I'm hoping for a 'Eureka' moment.

Jo.

[JoanneM]

William Brown head mar 55 besom maker Lincs Ponton - s/o Thomas Brown & Mary Burton
Unetta wife mar 50 net maker Lincs nk - believed to be Unity Smith (unproven)
Eliza dau unm 16 Lincs Wotton
Joseph son unm 24 ag lab Lincs Martin
William son 14 farm lad Lincs Granby
Martha dau 7 Lincs Belton
Julia dau 2 Lincs Alford
Aaron son 10 Lincs Mareham-le-Fen
Jem(?) nephew unm 23 besom maker Lincs Granby
Delarana niece unm 19 Lincs Armston - daughter of Francis & Rosetta
Chas. Nephew mar 25 besom maker Lincs Saceby(?)
Isabella niece mar 20 not known
Rosetta sister-in-law mar 52 Leics Womerdon - Rosetta Smith/Brown
Mizaah Gray visitor 8 Lincoln Granby - Messiah s/o Violet and Sidney
Eliz. Gray visitor 6 Lincs Caistor - probably another daughter of Violet & Sidney
George Charlotte, cousin, unm 22, ag lab, Lincs Hareby
Louisa Brown, niece, 1, Lincs Ulceby
Delerana Brown, niece, 3, Lincs Ulceby - probably the Delerana Smith/Brown who married Rabbi.

George Charlotte died young in 1867 and is buried at Kirton Lindsey.

I've received his death cert this morning, and as usual now have more questions than answers. :confused:

The informant on his death cert was Sophia Charlotte who was present at the death (he died of cerebral disease), but annoyingly it doesn't give her relationship to him.

His aged on the death cert is 24, making him born c.1843, and Sophia would have been around 50 then.

The known children of John and Sophia Charlotte (nee Smith) are:

Eleanor 1817 Gamlingay
Sistance (male) c.1820-1825 (assumed child)
Edmund 1822 Hickling Notts
Sylvester (female) 1827 Folkingham Lincs
Levanci 1829 Whittlesey Cambs
Elizabeth 1831 Billinghay Lincs
John 1834 Welton Lincs
James 1835 Scredington Lincs
John 1838 Hawerby Lincs

Now if George's age at death is correct I'd have thought he'd be more likely a grandson than son of Sophia.

But, if his age on the 1861 census is correct, and with the birthplace of Hareby, it makes him look like the son John bapt 1838 at Hawerby, albeit with a change of name??? :confused:

I have a John Charlotte on later census', his age on 1881 gives a birthdate of c.1835, but his age in 1891 and 1901 would put him closer to the John born Hawerby than the John born Welton (but then when have they ever been correct with their ages?). Confusingly he seems to be going by the name of John Thomas Sherriff in 1891.

Should add that I haven't found any deaths/burials to correspond with the John born 1834 Welton if he did die and they then named a subsequent son John.

I need to unravel the relationship of cousin on the 1861. If William Brown is the s/o Thomas Brown and Mary Burton, then I'd assume that the relationship lies with Unette rather than with him. It's a name associated with this family as there's a birth and baptism for Unette/Unity Charlotte d/o Edmund and Margaret Charlotte at Kirton Lindsey in 1856 (I need to get her birth cert at some point to try to find out who Margaret is).

In 1881 Sistance Charlotte is at Cleethorpes with two of the Brown children from the 1861 census, so if George is a grandson of Sophia's it's quite possible that he is Sistance's son. Sistance's wife was Lemontina/Matilda Boswell. RG11; Piece: 3274; Folio: 45; Page: 18. Or he could be Edmunds son. |banghead|

Aaaghh! Feel like I can't see the wood for the trees right now, so any suggestions would be appreciated. :)

Jo. :)