died under alias in merchant navy?

[linga longa]

Hi all:
this is my first post so be gentle!
I am helping my Father research and I am fascianated by his father who drowned in Montreal harbour on 19/6/28, this was when my father was 2 and this is what he was always told as a child. When we traced records none of his father exsisted in the navy or merchant navy (real name Wilfred Albert Cast) It was not till we chased the date of death he had always been told that we found that someone did die in the harbour that day and that he was Frederick Birchwood and in brackets Alias Cast!

We have since got the Naval records of Birchwood and on the CR 2 Cast is crossed out and Birchwood written in.

I just wondered if this is normal thing that went on or if something is lurking in the cupboard. This all means that we have a Birth cert for Cast but no death Cert and the other way round for Birchwood.

Also please tell me if this post is too long, as I say I am new!

thanks in advance
Linga Longa

[Geoffers]

Welome to the B-G forums - don't worry, your message is fine, clear and concise.

You have an interesting tale and I feel that there's a good deal of research ahead of you. Use of aliases was (is) not uncommon and there are many reasons for it; it isn't possible to suggest a reason just on the face of the information that you have.

Some initial thoughts:

On your dad's birth certificate, what is his dad's name and occupation?

Have you found a marriage certificate for his dad and if so under what name?

Does he appear in any census (1901?) and if so, under what name?

Do you have the death certifiacte for Frederick BIRCHWOOD? (is he the chap who was recorded as being on the Ausonia?)

[linga longa]

Hi Geoffers,
Thanks for your reply, ref my fathers birth certificate, I can not find that at present but he is sure it says "seaman merchant service" as ocupation it certainly says that on his two sisters birth certificates which I have here.
Dad has the marraige cert somewhere and that is Cast.

In fact the only times that Birchwood is mentioned is in the Navy and M navy records. We do have the Death cert for Birchwood, its one from Quebec Canada and this tallys up with a photo copy we have from a sailors institute book which has the death in it too. yes you are right it was the Ausonia.

With ref to that we have a CR1 which says on it it is a renewal as the original is "cancelled charge 4/4" ? From the Suffolk, dated 10 june 1927, and then on the top right it says deceased 19/6/28?

I have thought over it many times and I suposse alias were used to change age dates etc, but these two have the same birth date!

Hope to hear from you again
Thanks Linga longa

[Geoffers]

Thanks for your reply, ref my fathers birth certificate, I can not find that at present but he is sure it says "seaman merchant service" as ocupation it certainly says that on his two sisters birth certificates which I have here. Dad has the marraige cert somewhere and that is Cast.

Okedoke - when he married was he RN or Merchant Navy?


In fact the only times that Birchwood is mentioned is in the Navy

From your references to RN - I take it that this is the document that you have found? - BIRCHWOOD, Frederick (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=7164511&queryType=1&resultcount=1)

If so, when did he leave the RN and is there any suggestion of him deserting?


With ref to that we have a CR1 which says on it it is a renewal as the original is "cancelled charge 4/4" ?

Odd, I wonder why the original was cancelled and when?


I have thought over it many times and I suposse alias were used to change age dates etc, but these two have the same birth date!

Any hint of him being illegitimate - or of his dad dying young and his mum remarrying? (i.e. was he born a BITCHWOOD, dad died and mum remarried soon aftertwards to a CAST?).

[linga longa]

Thanks again Geoffers.
I will have to check the marraige but pressume RN. You are right with the document, we have a poor copy that I think I will need to get another of.
Last entry on it is 24/2/19 looks like "shore on demob" and in charachter and ability it looks like VG and abel?

Ref the other CR1 I have a poor copy (I have taken these over from Dad) think I need to visit kew again and look for it. On it though it looks like cancelled renewal issed? on the cr2 from Kew for B/wood (Cast crossed out) which says in the ships logged that "seaman used alias Fred Cast on first two voyages"

On the illegitimate bit, I hadn't thought of that but his older sister was registered on the BMD twice, and I seem to remember that had something to do with an act of parliment allow blank father names to be filled in and re resgisterd. I will have to check this though. Dad was bought up by his Aunt though and I have never thought to ask why!.

Sorry forgot to mention censes 1901, my sister is sure she had a look at this when she subscribed to a site a while back, but she is vague on it. should I have a look and check addresses and names on it?

Thanks again
Linga longa

[Geoffers]

Ref the other CR1 I have a poor copy (I have taken these over from Dad) think I need to visit kew again and look for it.

Does it have a reference on the document? If s, you may be able to order it online via TNA's catalogue


On the illegitimate bit, I hadn't thought of that but his older sister was registered on the BMD twice, and I seem to remember that had something to do with an act of parliment allow blank father names to be filled in and re resgisterd. I will have to check this though. Dad was bought up by his Aunt though and I have never thought to ask why!.

On the face of it, from the above, this is leaning towards an illegitimate birth. Don't ignore other possibilites, Don't take the idea as definite - but in your shoes, it is something that I would suspect.


Sorry forgot to mention censes 1901, my sister is sure she had a look at this when she subscribed to a site a while back, but she is vague on it. should I have a look and check addresses and names on it?

Everything you have in your research should have a source and if from a library/record office a reference so that anyone else can follow the same research and either come up with the same answer - or show it to be incorrect. I would be looking at the 1901 census just to clarify things in my own mind - but then I am naturally suspicious/nosy/curious

[v.wells]

Lingalonga You don't say where you were from or where Wilfred was apparently born.

There is a GRO index of Wilfred Albert Cast 1896 Greenwich vol 1d p 1039 1Q

Sorry I see you got that already!

[linga longa]

Hi , Ref the cr1 it has a Dis a. No 1055272 looks like, could i get one from that?

On the illegitimate birth thing, I am a bit vague, do you mean that My dad was born a Birchwood and then brought up as a Cast? sorry to be a bit dim on this?

Thanks

[Geoffers]

On the illegitimate birth thing, I am a bit vague, do you mean that My dad was born a Birchwood and then brought up as a Cast? sorry to be a bit dim on this?

I was thinking more of his dad being illegit.

Have a browse of TNA's reserarch guide on Merchant Seamen (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/researchguidesindex.asp#m) as to what is available, CR1 appear to be on film/fiche in document clas BT349

[linga longa]

Lingalonga You don't say where you were from or where Wilfred was apparently born.

There is a GRO index of Wilfred Albert Cast 1896 Greenwich vol 1d p 1039 1Q

Sorry I see you got that already!

Thanks a lot on this, yes Greenwich is the area and we have the Birth cert Wilfred Albert Cast. Just found a marriage Cert in the pack and thats 6/9/1925.
thanks

[linga longa]

I was thinking more of his dad being illegit.

Have a browse of TNA's reserarch guide on Merchant Seamen (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/researchguidesindex.asp#m) as to what is available, CR1 appear to be on film/fiche in document clas BT349

Thanks Geoffers, will do,

I have just found the marraige Cert in all the files and its 1925 so he would have been MNavy then and dads sister was born 1921 but not registered till 1926 (got thr cert)

have also the cert of the marraige of Cast/Birchwood's dad. a Charles Cast in 26/11/1881. This names also on the birth cert, does that torpedo the illiget idea.

I should have sorted all the files better sorry.

Thanks

[Geoffers]

have also the cert of the marraige of Cast/Birchwood's dad. a Charles Cast in 26/11/1881. This names also on the birth cert, does that torpedo the illiget idea.

It certainly does if your chap was born in 1896 (though doesn't discount his dad from being illegit). So reverting to an alternative idea, did Charles CAST pop his clogs soon after the birth of his son and his widow remarry?

[linga longa]

looks as if Charles died in 1922 at Chelsea hospital, I have pages from a family bible which I have not trusted too much. I have not checked this on the BMD yet tho. (just checked cant see on the BMD)
Thanks
Linga longa

[Geoffers]

Anyone can of course change their name at anytime (provided they do not commit an offence in so doing) - in this case the answer may never come to light, but do keep digging around as you never know what may turn up - it may turn out to be him evading the Law, being a bigamist, an illegitimacy someone along the line, an adoption through remarriage........whatever. Do you have the death certificate for Birchwood? Did he leave a will, or was admon granted?

[Lesley Robertson]

Thanks again Geoffers.
I will have to check the marraige but pressume RN. You are right with the document, we have a poor copy that I think I will need to get another of.
Last entry on it is 24/2/19 looks like "shore on demob" and in charachter and ability it looks like VG and abel?




Ref your poor quality documents. Try scanning them, and then playing with the image - it often isn't pretty but makes the difference between legible and not.

This isn't my field, but a couple of thoughts (since you seem to have checked most ofthe sensible stuff) - how old was Cast/Birchwood when he joined up the first time? Too old to have been hiding the fact that he was under age or lacking parental consent? Also, could he have maybe joined something else first, then decided he preferred the sea and done things the unofficial way? Also, I suppose that some people did change their names to get away from unwanted commitments...

I agree with Geoffers that you should check the census (and anything else you can think of) - I'd look for Casts and Birchwoods - it's an extra check on whether only one appears at a time. Apart from anything else, if the name change was to get away from something/someone it would be useful to know where he came from originally (eg if there was a possible vengeful fiancee on the horizon, he'd not go back home to marry or settle his family).

Lesley

[linga longa]

Anyone can of course change their name at anytime (provided they do not commit an offence in so doing) - in this case the answer may never come to light, but do keep digging around as you never know what may turn up - it may turn out to be him evading the Law, being a bigamist, an illegitimacy someone along the line, an adoption through remarriage........whatever. Do you have the death certificate for Birchwood? Did he leave a will, or was admon granted?

Thanks
I have never searched for a will, what is the best way there.
I like the vengeful fiancee idea from lesley, makes him sound like a right rogue.
I can only think the family had no idea (or chose not to tell) as all official docs are Cast and even the family bible is all Cast.

I have the death cert of B/wood from Quebec, I suppose his effects would have gone somewhere, but not to the cast line, but then again how is his death in the family bible? He is in the death at sea register and addresses tie up.

I have searched the BMD and it looks like some Birchwood twins were born in 1918, is it worth me getting docs and checking adresss and censes or am I barking up the wrong tree, This would make cast/birchwood 22 yrs.

Another interesting thing is on the body marks note on the RNavy records, it says "F East" in a floral design tatooed on right arm. My Dad has always said this must mean Far East. But i love the idea that the middle bit of the "E" was added later!! take it out it reads F Cast!!

I am really getting in to this hobby and hope that what I learn I will be able to help others with

Thanks again

[linga longa]

Ref your poor quality documents. Try scanning them, and then playing with the image - it often isn't pretty but makes the difference between legible and not.

This isn't my field, but a couple of thoughts (since you seem to have checked most ofthe sensible stuff) - how old was Cast/Birchwood when he joined up the first time? Too old to have been hiding the fact that he was under age or lacking parental consent? Also, could he have maybe joined something else first, then decided he preferred the sea and done things the unofficial way? Also, I suppose that some people did change their names to get away from unwanted commitments...

I agree with Geoffers that you should check the census (and anything else you can think of) - I'd look for Casts and Birchwoods - it's an extra check on whether only one appears at a time. Apart from anything else, if the name change was to get away from something/someone it would be useful to know where he came from originally (eg if there was a possible vengeful fiancee on the horizon, he'd not go back home to marry or settle his family).

Lesley

Hi Lesley

thanks for reply, his first post was 16/11/1915 on HMS Pembroke, which I think was a training ship at Chatham. This would make him around 19??

Thanks

[Geoffers]

I have never searched for a will, what is the best way there.

The Probate Calendar has been copied onto film, is available at most/all County Record Offices and is easy to use. Names are recorded alphabetically by surname and forename and a fair amount of detail is included by which you can normally identify if you have found the correct entry.

Copies of wills can be obtained through the Probate Registry (http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/infoabout/civil/probate/index.htm)

If the entry in the calendar says that administration was granted (rather than pribate was granted), don't bother applying for a copy of the admon as it rarely incldues more detail than the calendar.

[linga longa]

Thanks for that geoffers, I have arranged a day at First ave next week, to have a look. I live in brighton they hold the calender there but the book I have been reading (genealogy for beginners, K. Proudfoot) says that the smaller places hold only up to about 50 years. Is that correct? as of course would rather go there??

Cheers

[Geoffers]

Sorry, I can't help with the holdings of individual record offices, they may be mentioned on their web-sites. From where you are, you could of course try West Sussex Record Office and East Sussex Record Office, bith of which would be a simpler trip than London