1801 BINFIELD Census

[tribi]

1801 Binfield Census

Robert ( of Belfont)
& Mary Bond
Martha 34 out
Robert 31 out
Elizabeth
Hannah
James
& 3 dead

I know this Census tracked the movement of families in the village, but what was the meaning of the word 'OUT' ( out at the time of the Census ?) or (out of the village ?)

[Leaf]

In 1801, information was collected on a parish basis so maybe it indicated that they were from outside of the parish.

~ Leaf ~

[Peter Goodey]

I think "out" indicates that they had left home. Do other entries support that?

[Mutley]

The Vision of Britain (http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/data_cube_table_page.jsp?data_theme=T_POP&data_cube=N_TPop&u_id=10099626&c_id=10001043&add=N)site says that in 1801 the population of Binfield was 808.

But I don't suppose you fancy counting how many were in and how many were out!:D

[christopher_n_lewis]

Maybe they were receiving out-relief?

Who/what/why "3 dead"?

Christopher

[Peter Goodey]

Who/what/why "3 dead"?



There had been three unnamed children who had died. Two named children had moved out.

[tribi]

Thankyou all for your replies. I actually phoned the Berks. Record Office for information on the 1801 and was told they 'thought' it meant they were out at the time of the Census. Then after 'googling' I had definate other thoughts as to it's meaning. This is the only entry I have which was supplied by someone who came across it whilst voluntarily checking out a baptism entry for me. Peter your last comment confirms what I thought, that they had moved out of the village.

tribi

[christopher_n_lewis]

Gosh, how useful. If only other documents could supply details like that.

[NFurniss]

Gosh, how useful. If only other documents could supply details like that.

I know nothing of the 1801 census. I thought the first census was in 1841. Was this a local census or a National Census? Is there a write up somewhere?

[Peter Goodey]

Not much of genealogical use has survived of the 1801-1931 censuses. Binfield is one of the lucky places. There are a couple of reference books, one of which is "Pre-1841 Censuses and Population Listings in the British Isles" by C R Chapman.

[Peter Goodey]

Also Gibson & Medlycott, Local Census Listings 1522-1930, holdings in the British Isles

[NewburyChap]

I know nothing of the 1801 census. I thought the first census was in 1841. Was this a local census or a National Census? Is there a write up somewhere?

1801 was the first national census. In general it was no more than a headcount, how many men, women & children etc. A few enumerators recorded names and a few of these lists survive. The same applies to the 1811, 1821 & 1831 censuses. 1841 was the first to require enumerators to collect names, hence the first really useful one for all but a very few places.

[NFurniss]

1801 was the first national census. In general it was no more than a headcount, how many men, women & children etc. A few enumerators recorded names and a few of these lists survive. The same applies to the 1811, 1821 & 1831 censuses. 1841 was the first to require enumerators to collect names, hence the first really useful one for all but a very few places.

Thanks Peter and NewburyChap. The 1841 census is a pretty comprehensive series. The enumerator and organisers had learnt a lot in the four previous counts. I suppose the urge to find out more and more about a shifting population is endemic in government departments.

I wonder if yesterday's announcement of the governments change of plan for ID Cards is the last we shall hear of it. Probably future generations of enumerators will go around with a mini forensic laboratory and video recording equipment. Which party will be the first to put such proposals in their manifesto?

[Peter Goodey]

I suppose the urge to find out more and more about a shifting population is endemic in government departments.


It was needed because of the massive population growth and movement in the 19th century.

The next census may well be the last in the familiar form and future censuses may well be totally electronic as they have been in Finland for 20 years (where it cost USD 7.00 per inhabitant using paper and USD 0.17 electronically).

[NFurniss]

It was needed because of the massive population growth and movement in the 19th century.

The next census may well be the last in the familiar form and future censuses may well be totally electronic as they have been in Finland for 20 years (where it cost USD 7.00 per inhabitant using paper and USD 0.17 electronically).

I am fascinated by thought of electronic census taking. I am fundamentally a telecommunications engineer, (lots of other strings to the bow), who was trained in the generation of the second edition of the Strowger system of automatic telephone exchanges. My fellow trainees and I often speculated about the sorts of telecommunications systems that would be developed by the turn of the century. In our wildest dreams we would not have included this development of census taking.

How is it done?

[Peter Goodey]

On checking I see that they call it 'register based'. The theory is that the authorities already have the information that a census would collect but scattered around various databases. That means the census can evolve into an exercise simply to pull together the necessary information from existing databases without the need to issue questionnaires.

There's a paper here (in English ;)) that provides an overview of the Finnish approach -

http://unstats.un.org/unsd/censuskb/attachments/2006FIN_CES-GUID90c8103fb7e64cbca67fd44d37fd42ab.pdf

[NFurniss]

On checking I see that they call it 'register based'. The theory is that the authorities already have the information that a census would collect but scattered around various databases. That means the census can evolve into an exercise simply to pull together the necessary information from existing databases without the need to issue questionnaires.

There's a paper here (in English ;)) that provides an overview of the Finnish approach -

http://unstats.un.org/unsd/censuskb/attachments/2006FIN_CES-GUID90c8103fb7e64cbca67fd44d37fd42ab.pdf

I recently joined another forum, NO2ID. The organisers would be against the Finnish solution. Believe me, they would do all they could to finish it off. The Finns have gradually built up databases. With a database that is comprehensive enough, you can get all the information for a census on a daily basis. How do we safeguard ourselves from the mis-use of information? That is the question.

[Peter Goodey]

I wouldn't see it as misuse of data - just an alternative to questionnaires. However we ought not to pursue it here in view of the forum's 'no politics' rule.

[Geoffers]

However we ought not to pursue it here in view of the forum's 'no politics' rule.

Good idea, opposing views on politics always ends in tears and these forums are a place for friends to meet and discuss family history.

[NFurniss]

Good idea, opposing views on politics always ends in tears and these forums are a place for friends to meet and discuss family history.

Surely the way we collect data, keep and publish data is of general concern. I can't imagine how this can be construed as political, in a party political sense. We recently requested the government to allow us to see data from the census after seventy years but the government decided that a former government had made a commitment to the 100 year rule. To change the system of taking the Binfield census would probably spark debate in the Bracknell Forest Unitary Authority. As a resident in this UA, I should expect my view to be sought. I should like to be able to debate the issue on non party lines before I finally made up my mind whether to support a change or not. We should not allow political correctness to stifle a debate that may affect hundreds of future genealogists.

[Geoffers]

Surely the way we collect data, keep and publish data is of general concern.

If it specifically relates to family history which is what these forums are for then it may be relevant on the forums.


As a resident in this UA, I should expect my view to be sought. I should like to be able to debate the issue on non party lines before I finally made up my mind whether to support a change or not

I'm sure that your views would be welcome and that there are forums where you may debate on non-party political lines the merits of various systems. However, these forums are as mentioned, concerned with family history queries and not a place to debate these matters.

As the original query has been answered, I will close this thread.