90 Squadron WWII

[GarryD]

Maybe someone in the B-G RAF Forum can help me with a problem I’m experiencing in researching the military service of a first cousin once removed who served in the RAF Volunteer Reserve and who died during WWII.

I’ve confirmed the date of his death and personal details on the CWGC site and visited his grave in Woodgrange Park Cemetery, East Ham yesterday to pay my respects. Originally I thought his name was simply recorded on the war memorial and that his body had not been found but there is a separate headstone for him which I now assume means that he is buried there. Is this a sound assumption? (If his body wasn’t found surely he would be recorded at the Runnymede memorial?)

His full details are:

Name: James Walter Biscoe
Born: 1915
Rank: Sergeant (Air Gunner)
Unit: 90 Squadron
Died: 12th November 1943
Service No: 1891314

I originally assumed that he died in action and planned on ordering the relevant ORB and/or SRB pages from the National Archives AIR collections to find out more about the raid he was on when he died but I’ve checked the Bomber Command campaign diary for 1943 at http://www.raf.mod.ukand can’t find details of any likely missions on or about the date of his death.

My early research has indicated that in November 1943 90 Squadron were part of No 3 (Bomber) Group and were based at RAF Tuddenham in Suffolk, flying Short Sterling MK III’s on normal bombing operations and, from January 1943, a large number of mine laying missions.

However, nothing in the campaign diary on or around 12th November 1943 looks like a likely candidate for his final mission. Seven Stirlings were involved in mine laying in the River Garonde and off La Pallice on 10th/11th November but none were lost although it now occurs to me that he may have died even if his aircraft wasn’t lost or alternatively he could have died of injuries received at an earlier date. Does it even follow that because he is recorded on the CWGC site he died in action?

Another plan was to obtain a copy of Chorley’s Bomber Command Losses for 1943 but unless the information in the campaign diary is incorrect and there were in fact losses of Stirlings on 11th November that would now seen to be a dead end.

Obviously requesting documents from the NA under these circumstances is going to be hit and miss if I can’t establish the relevant dates so can anyone suggest what my next step should be?

Thanks

Garry

[GarryD]

As an afterthought I just did a FreeBMD lookup via Ancestry and found his death registered in Cambridge in 4Q/1943 (Vol 3b P760) so I could now order a copy of the certificate and hope that might provide more details of his death.

Garry

[Marie C..]

I was just wondering why if he died in Cambridge Reg district he was buried in East Ham.
Perhaps his family lived there?
They died sometimes from injured aircraft coming in to land and from German Dorier 217 's flying low over the aerodromes and aiming to destroy any aircraft on the ground. Also from injuries received during the sorties.
If the cert proves to be yours then you will find cause of death.
My uncle was an air gunner/navigaor in the RAF.
Hope that death is the one you are looking for.M

[GarryD]

I was just wondering why if he died in Cambridge Reg district he was buried in East Ham.
Perhaps his family lived there?

I was wondering about that too. The births of his father and all his siblings were registered in Poplar and according to the CWGC site at the time of his death his parents were living in Dagenham, neither of which are a million miles from East Ham, but I assume there would have been cemeteries nearer to either location. He would have been 24 at the start of the war so I'm guessing that he must have left the family home by then.

I'm due to call the office that now holds the graves index for Woodgrange Park (needless to say they are no longer maintained on site) to see if there are any other Sargeants buried there which may explain that particular part of the mystery.

Haven't ordered any certificates from the GRO for at least three years so not sure how quickly they are currently being issued . . .guess I'm about to find out!

Garry

[Neil Wilson]

Garry
Being list on the CWGC site means that he was either KIA or died from injuries (could have been injuried months proir).
Google pulls loads of information about 90 sqn, input RAF 90 Squadron.

[GarryD]

I'm due to call the office that now holds the graves index for Woodgrange Park (needless to say they are no longer maintained on site) to see if there are any other Sargeants buried there which may explain that particular part of the mystery.

That of course should have said Biscoe! That's one of the problems of researching a sergeant and also having Sargeants in your tree :o

[Lesley Robertson]

As an afterthought I just did a FreeBMD lookup via Ancestry and found his death registered in Cambridge in 4Q/1943 (Vol 3b P760) so I could now order a copy of the certificate and hope that might provide more details of his death.

Garry


There were a lot of airfields in the Cambs-Lincs area (comparative lack of hills) and military hospitals to accompany them (eg Addenbrooks started life as a military hospital), so if he was injured and his plane made it back, or if he was injured/killed on the ground (airfields were bombed, people died in training), it would be quite reasonable that he died in Cambs, regardless of where his family was.

I've spent a lot of this year photographing CWGC cemetaries and they tend to be very accurate. Unless a (rare) mistake was made, a named stone indicates that the person lies there. There's odd exceptions: I know of a couple of stones that say something like "known to have been buried somewhere in this cemetary, but his grave has been lost", and two in the Hague that say "known to have been buried in Ijmuiden but whose grave has been lost". With the unnamed stones, they give whatever info is available - eg "A Canadian pilot", "A RAF Flying Officer" or the saddest "Known only to God". There's a WW1 stone in the Hague that says on one side "sailors from HMS Aboukir, HMS Cressy and HMS Hogue" and on the other side lists about a dozen men from these ships known to be buried there. One thing CWGC is careful about is saying what's known about a given grave.

Lesley

[GarryD]

There were a lot of airfields in the Cambs-Lincs area (comparative lack of hills) and military hospitals to accompany them (eg Addenbrooks started life as a military hospital), so if he was injured and his plane made it back, or if he was injured/killed on the ground (airfields were bombed, people died in training), it would be quite reasonable that he died in Cambs, regardless of where his family was.

Addenbrooks had crossed my mind but I also went back over the information already gleaned about 90 Squadron and from 31st May to 13th October 1943 they were based at Wratting Common (previously known as West Wickham until 1st August 1943) which is in Cambridgeshire. Obviously that's only circumstantial but might explain why his death was registered in Cambridge.

The flip side of that is that it makes the potential search window even wider (back to May 1943 and possibly earlier) but I think at this stage obtaining the death certificate is the logical next step to see if that reveals any additional information, although if he died in November 1943 from injuries received in an earlier mission (as opposed to being killed in an air raid on the airfield) I wouldn't think that the date of the mission where he was injured would be recorded. However, I've never ordered certificates under these circumstances before so I stand to be corrected.

Garry

[Lesley Robertson]

Addenbrooks had crossed my mind but I also went back over the information already gleaned about 90 Squadron and from 31st May to 13th October 1943 they were based at Wratting Common (previously known as West Wickham until 1st August 1943) which is in Cambridgeshire. Obviously that's only circumstantial but might explain why his death was registered in Cambridge.

The flip side of that is that it makes the potential search window even wider (back to May 1943 and possibly earlier) but I think at this stage obtaining the death certificate is the logical next step to see if that reveals any additional information, although if he died in November 1943 from injuries received in an earlier mission (as opposed to being killed in an air raid on the airfield) I wouldn't think that the date of the mission where he was injured would be recorded. However, I've never ordered certificates under these circumstances before so I stand to be corrected.

Garry


You can't assume that if the pilot was trying to get back in a damaged plane, he made it back to his home base. He'd have come down at the first landing strip (or even field) that looked suitable. In WW1, Holland was neutral, and there's a couple of known cases of pilots of shot-up planes diverting to dutch soil as the fastest way to get medical aid for injured crew, even though it meant they'd be interned.

You're right though - anything's possible until you have the death cert. And even then there may be questions.
Lesley

[Lesley Robertson]

You can't assume that if the pilot was trying to get back in a damaged plane, he made it back to his home base. He'd have come down at the first landing strip (or even field) that looked suitable. In WW1, Holland was neutral, and there's a couple of known cases of pilots of shot-up planes diverting to dutch soil as the fastest way to get medical aid for injured crew, even though it meant they'd be interned.

You're right though - anything's possible until you have the death cert. And even then there may be questions.
Lesley


Found him!
There's a fabulous site called "Lost Bombers" where you can search by plane type and date - should have looked there earlier. Hopefully you can get my findings here http://www.lostbombers.co.uk/bomber.php?id=6382, but in case:
The flight was indeed mine laying on 7-8 Oct 1943, off the Friesian Islands, attacked by a fighter, hit by flak, ditched off Norfolk. Survivors picked up by a destroyer. The site lists the whole crew, their wording (see below) suggests that Sgt J.W.Briscoe was one of the survivors, he presumably then died of his wounds:

"Sgt Miller is commemorated on Panel 159 of the Runnymede Memorial. F/S G.A.Timlin Sgt C.I.Stocker Sgt F.J. Hayes Sgt G.C.McKenzie Sgt T.R.Miller KIA Sgt J.W.Biscoe Sgt K.M.Aitchison"

Lesley

[GarryD]

Found him!
There's a fabulous site called "Lost Bombers" where you can search by plane type and date - should have looked there earlier. Hopefully you can get my findings here http://www.lostbombers.co.uk/bomber.php?id=6382,

Lesley

Thanks for the link. Had never found that site despite many previous Google serches but you are correct, it is fabulous, a real labour of love by the anonymous originator.

I will still order the death certificate as planned but now I have something to work with if I decide to also order the relevant ORB/SRB although from past experience I don't think they will contain any more information than is included in the Lost Bombers site database.

Garry

[Lesley Robertson]

Lesley

Thanks for the link. Had never found that site despite many previous Google serches but you are correct, it is fabulous, a real labour of love by the anonymous originator.

I will still order the death certificate as planned but now I have something to work with if I decide to also order the relevant ORB/SRB although from past experience I don't think they will contain any more information than is included in the Lost Bombers site database.

Garry


I think you're right to do so. You now know that he was probably picked up when the plane ditched, and he died a month later, presumably of his injuries, but it's nice to have it all confirmed.

I found the site when I fell into a trap of my own making - I was sorting photos for the CWGC photogrpahy project when I read an inscription and thought "I wonder what happened to him".... I ended up researching every man in that one cemetary!
There's another excellent collection that documents every plane (on both sides) than came down over the Netherlands and its waters, but it's only in Dutch. It's a set of pdfs (one for each year) produced by the Dutch Institute for War Studies. I use it and Loast Bombers together.
For those who want to try, go here:
http://www.nimh.nl/nl/nieuws/nieuwsberichten/2008/03maart/verliesregisterklaar.aspx
And then select a year.

Lesley

[GarryD]

I received a copy of the death certificate in 6 days which is the fastest delivery I've experienced so full marks to the GRO for processing the order so swiftly.

Unfortunately the cause of death was only recorded as "Due to War Operations" and the place of death as Six Mile Bottom, Brinkley. Under informant it says that the certificate was received from the officer commanding, Geo. Rawley.

I've checked on a UK road atlas and Six Mile Bottom is about 6 miles due east of Cambridge and roughly 5 miles north west of West Wickham, which was the previous name of RAF Wratting Common so it would appear that after being picked up off the coast of Cromer J W Biscoe was transported nearer to his home base, but that's still speculation on my part.

So far I haven't been able to find any details of a war time hospital at Six Mile Bottom but the search goes on.

Garry

[Jan1954]

GarryD,

At Six Mile Bottom there is now a hotel (Swynford Paddocks), which was previously known as The Lodge. It was where Lord Byron used to meet his sister, Augusta.

"What has this got to do with things?", I hear you ask.

Well, in both the First and Second World Wars, many large houses were commandeered for the use as hospitals for the wounded chaps coming back from battle. It may well be that this was the case with The Lodge.

Try contacting the Cambridgeshire Family History Society (http://www.parishchest.com/shop/index.php?cmd=listlinkeditems&cat=D2149&breadcrumb=Societies+%26+Groups:Cambridgeshire+FHS ), to see if they are able to throw any light on the subject.

Good luck,

[GarryD]

Thanks. I will check out The Lodge and see what I can find out.

However, thanks to a chance match made via Genes Reunited I've today been informed that F/S J W Biscoe did indeed survive ditching in the sea in October 1943 only to be shot down and killed in what we now euphemistically refer to as a friendly fire incident just over a month later.

I haven't seen any documentary proof of this as yet but I have no reason to believe that the information is incorrect.

He wouldn't have been the first serviceman to die in this way and sadly he wasn't the last.

Garry

[sniper617]

Hi All,

Just to throw a cat amongst the pigeons here but the CWGC does not just list casualties that either died in action or from wounds. They also list those that died due to accidents, including motor accidents or illness. As long as a person served between 1914-1921 or 1939-1947 they would of been listed on the CWGC records.

Sniper