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Peter Goodey
31-10-2008, 9:27 AM
If anyone has a findmypast (or similar) sub and wouldn't mind digging into the index of Deaths at Sea 1854-1890, I'd be grateful for a lookup on Knud (or Knut) Ernest ANDERSON, a ship's engineer, who apparently died at sea in 1883.

michaelpipe
31-10-2008, 9:56 AM
Checked the whole timespan, only one K Anderson 1869, 2 yr old child. Also checked E Anderson, no Ernest.

Michael

Peter Goodey
31-10-2008, 10:17 AM
Thanks very much for checking, Michael.

I was being a bit cheeky because I'd actually already found his date of death from probate records. I was interested to know whether it was indexed.

If it hadn't been among the probate records I'm not sure where else I could have searched. A lot of records seem to be missing for 1883 :(

I'll make a note to check "Registers of Seamen's Death Classified by Cause" (BT 157 ) next time I'm at the National Archives.

Meanwhile I'll log this as another good reason to check probate records ;)

Thanks again for your help.

michaelpipe
31-10-2008, 10:31 AM
I also have a 'missing' death that should have been indexed, but no sign of it. Unfortunately he hasn't shown up anywhere else either - just family tales about dying at sea.

Frustrating, isn't it.

Michael

oxon57
31-10-2008, 10:40 AM
If it's any help, while he may not be in the "Deaths at Sea 1854-1890", he is in the GRO "Marine Deaths" index for 1883.

Surname - Anderson
Name - Knud
Age - 35
Name of Vessel - Wykeham
Page - 103

Wilkes_ml
31-10-2008, 10:44 AM
I have the same problem with 2 of mine who supposedly died at sea. One about 1902-1910, and the other about 1973. They just seem to have vanished!

michaelpipe
31-10-2008, 10:54 AM
If it's any help, while he may not be in the "Deaths at Sea 1854-1890", he is in the GRO "Marine Deaths" index for 1883.



Hi Oxon,
Can I search that online?

Michael

oxon57
31-10-2008, 10:56 AM
I don't know much about these records, I just look them up and they're either there or they're not, but if they had any money then I would agree with Peter that it's worth looking at the probate calendar - and not just for the year in which you think they died.

Whether or not "no body found, no index listing" comes into it I don't know, none of my own are involved so it's not something I've investigated, but in one of my wife's lines there are three who were lost at sea, not indexed, but with a will proved (in two cases) or administration granted (in one case) about twenty years later.

oxon57
31-10-2008, 11:01 AM
Michael - sorry, missed you while typing.

Yes, it's also on FindMyPast, in three parts, 1837-1846, 1846-1902, and 1903-1965, in the "Deaths - British Overseas 1761-1994" section.

michaelpipe
31-10-2008, 11:05 AM
Michael - sorry, missed you while typing.

Yes, it's also on FindMyPast, in three parts, 1837-1846, 1846-1902, and 1903-1965, in the "Deaths - British Overseas 1761-1994" section.

Thanks for that - I'll have a look for mine.

Michael

Peter Goodey
31-10-2008, 1:51 PM
Thanks for looking, Oxon. I was obviously thrown by findmypast's strange classification system.

Knowing the name of the vessel may open new avenues. He's not closely enough related to bother about a certificate but I probably will dig around at the National Archives just to get the hang of the available sources.

Very few of my ancestors ventured away from dry land. Very wise of them :D.

Peter Goodey
31-10-2008, 2:02 PM
The loss of the Wykeham was mentioned in The Times. The "fine new screw steamship" went down off Lisbon. The report didn't mention any survivors.

oxon57
02-11-2008, 12:48 PM
The loss of the Wykeham was mentioned in The Times.
Oh good - glad the name came in handy.

"Grandmother" and "eggs" come to mind, I'm sure you know your way around these things a lot better than I do, I think my lot would have got seasick crossing the Thames on their way from Faringdon to Aylesbury so I've never had to really look at things on the high seas, but just from things I've noticed in The Times in passing, I think that if it's a "good" sinking (for us, not for those involved) there might be an inquest report later - and possibly (vague memory of other people's conversations could be wrong here) something at TNA and/or the Guildhall Libary which may be useful if you're lucky.

Peter Goodey
02-11-2008, 1:30 PM
Thanks. That little exercise has brought home to me that I don't understand the procedures surrounding death certificates, probate etc in those circumstances. It appears that Lloyds declared the ship "lost with all hands" but only two bodies were recovered. Is that a legal declaration of death? The ship went down on or around 30 March 1883 and the widow was granted probate on 10 May. For some reason it was granted at the Principal Registry although she lived in West Hartlepool.

madonhistory
03-08-2009, 8:49 PM
Hello!

I saw your post and wondered wether you would be so kind to look up a mariner death for me also?
I have an annual subscription for Ancestry but cannot afford another expensive subscription for findmypast

I am unsure as to wether he died at sea,but here is the info on him anyway...

Richard Williams born 1826,husband of Anne who lived in Llanbeblig....he died between 1861 and 1865 {when his wife remarried!}
I have looked on the WelshMariners website with no luck

thank you

Geoffers
04-08-2009, 7:25 AM
Welcome to the B-G forums


I am unsure as to wether he died at sea,but here is the info on him anyway...Richard Williams born 1826,husband of Anne who lived in Llanbeblig....he died between 1861 and 1865 {when his wife remarried!}

I could find no match with the details provided; are you sure he popped his clogs and didn't just do a runner?

Was he an officer, or other rank?

auburn
04-08-2009, 8:00 AM
Thanks very much for checking, Michael.

I was being a bit cheeky because I'd actually already found his date of death from probate records. I was interested to know whether it was indexed.

If it hadn't been among the probate records I'm not sure where else I could have searched. A lot of records seem to be missing for 1883 :(

I'll make a note to check "Registers of Seamen's Death Classified by Cause" (BT 157 ) next time I'm at the National Archives.

Meanwhile I'll log this as another good reason to check probate records ;)

Thanks again for your help.

Just a thought-have you tried newspaper reports?

I had a family legend of a lost at sea gg uncle & couldn't find him in indexes anywhere-but there were 2 reports in the British Library 19th century newspaper archive (free to view via my local library website)
One report was of the loss at sea-the other the finding of the body.
Might be worth a try.

madonhistory
04-08-2009, 3:12 PM
Thanks for looking Geoffers
if he was anything like my Dad....he probably did a runner!!
I dont know anything else about Richard,apart from it saying he was a Mariner on his sons {David Hugh Williams} marriage cert.
David's Mum married in 1865 when he was 4 so I suppose I could try and find his death cert between 1861-1865.....but the name Richard Williams! there must be hundreds!!
thanks anyway

Peter Goodey
04-08-2009, 3:24 PM
Just a thought-have you tried newspaper reports?


Thanks for the thought. I found everything I needed in the Merchant Navy records at the National Archives. So far as my original question goes, the matter was resolved a while ago but someone resurrected the thread. Sorry for the confusion and thanks again for thinking about it. The 19th century newspaper system is an interesting resource, isn't it?

Thomasin
04-08-2009, 6:03 PM
I saw your post and wondered wether you would be so kind to look up a mariner death for me also?
I am unsure as to wether he died at sea,but here is the info on him anyway...

Richard Williams born 1826,husband of Anne who lived in Llanbeblig....he died between 1861 and 1865 {when his wife remarried!}
I have looked on the WelshMariners website with no luck


I've had a look on FMP, but can't see anyone of the right age at the right date, or coming from the right place!

Thomasin

auburn
04-08-2009, 6:39 PM
Thanks for the thought. I found everything I needed in the Merchant Navy records at the National Archives. So far as my original question goes, the matter was resolved a while ago but someone resurrected the thread. Sorry for the confusion and thanks again for thinking about it. The 19th century newspaper system is an interesting resource, isn't it?

Whoops! Didn't spot the dates on your posts-I really should get some caffeine into the system before I look at this site!

edge
06-08-2009, 12:46 PM
I'm also looking for a death at sea (1858-60). If I turn up at the National Archives can I view the records there and then or is it best to contact them first? If so is it best to e-mail or phone?

Thanks

Peter Goodey
06-08-2009, 1:19 PM
Best to read this first...

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=246

...and/or get Chris Watts' book as mentioned in Section 6 of the above research guide (I think you can get it through Parish Chest).

Once you've decided the appropriate way to pursue your particular problem, give us a shout if you need any further advice.

When you're ready to do this, it will be best to start a new thread which is more likely to be spotted by more people than if it's piggy backing on an old one.

Jan1954
06-08-2009, 5:25 PM
...and/or get Chris Watts' book as mentioned in Section 6 of the above research guide (I think you can get it through Parish Chest).You most certainly can, Peter.

Have a look here (http://www.parishchest.com/shop/index.php?cmd=viewproduct&cat=&id=P26719&pageOffset=0), edge. :)