Bricknell Marman Jeffery Reed Woolls Rogers

[Pat English]

I have done pretty well in reaching back to 1837 for my Hampshire ancestors, but need help to go back further. These are the people I am trying to track:

Jane Bricknell, who was married to Edward Marman, a broker in Winchester, no record yet of the marriage and I am looking for their parents, too. The couple had children including Jane Marman, born in 1840, my ancestor.

Ancestors of Richard Jeffery, born around 1817, Winchester, who married Caroline Reed, born around 1818, Winchester.

Ancestors of William Woolls, born around 1764, Romsey, and who he married.

Ancestors of Joseph Rogers, born around 1785 in Over Wallop, and who he married.

All these people were my great great great grandparents.


Best wishes,

Pat English
Cardiff

[Tuppence]

Hi Pat,

Couldn't find them on the disk that I have but will check some other sources as soon as I can. Was wondering if you could give me some info about Cardiff as I am having a problem myself with my Grandmothers' family. My great uncle was the harbour master in Cardiff following WW2. Have tried various sites and left messages but no luck so would appreciate any advice on this.

Tuppence

[Sol2]

Hello Pat
Maybe you would like to check the following out I hope it will help you

Jane Bricknell & Edward Marmon married 23 May 1836 Saint Maurice Winchester
Edward Marmon bapt 10 Dec 1819 s/o Thomas/Sarah Saint Maurice Winchester
William Wools bapt 12 Jul 1764 s/o William Romsey

Hope it helps you in your research
Best wishes
Sol2

[Geoff Rogers]

I have done pretty well in reaching back to 1837 for my Hampshire ancestors, but need help to go back further. These are the people I am trying to track:

Jane Bricknell, who was married to Edward Marman, a broker in Winchester, no record yet of the marriage and I am looking for their parents, too. The couple had children including Jane Marman, born in 1840, my ancestor.

Ancestors of Richard Jeffery, born around 1817, Winchester, who married Caroline Reed, born around 1818, Winchester.

Ancestors of William Woolls, born around 1764, Romsey, and who he married.

Ancestors of Joseph Rogers, born around 1785 in Over Wallop, and who he married.

All these people were my great great great grandparents.


Best wishes,

Pat English
Cardiff
Hello Pat

On the LDS website there is a Joseph Rogers marrying Ann Grace on 26 NOV 1814 at Over Wallop, Hampshire, England . There is also a reference to his birth, but I would be very wary of this as it says "of Over Wallop" which generally means an estimate of where he was born. I have had a couple of instances like this and subsequent searches of the Parish Register failed to find an entry.

Regards
Geoff Rogers

[Pat English]

Just to say thanks to the people who have replied so quickly to my request for help. This system really works!
To Tuppence: Let me have more info and I'll see what I can find out about your Cardiff ancestor
To Sol2: That was SO helpful and the dates and names all fit in well with what I've got already, so I think I've stretched the lines back a bit further.
To Geoff Rogers: Thanks for the new information -- if Ann Grace is her full name, then that's another surname for my collection. My immediate aim is to know the 16 surnames of all my great great great grandparents on my mother's side. So far I have 14. Thanks, too, for reminding me about the main LDS website, as I hadn't searched there properly until now.

Any more info gratefully received!
Cheers,
Pat

[Pat English]

Thanks to your advice, I have had amazing luck on the LDS website and have now gone back as far as the 1650s in some of my ancestry lines in Hampshire.
Most of the LDS stuff seems to dovetail neatly, although I have found a couple of red herrings where lots of children have been lumped under the same parents when they clearly don't belong -- born within six months of each other, in different places or lots with the same first name.
Two questions:
1) I have found Edward Marmon (my ggg grandfather) and Thomas Marmon , both sons of Thomas and Sarah, both christened on December 10, 1819, at St Maurice, Winchester. So I guess they were twins? But I have also found Emma Marmon, same parents, christened there a week later. Did triplets survive in those days? Emma went on to have an illegitimate daughter, Caroline, a witness at my gg grandmother's wedding, and to live, unmarried, as a shopkeeper until her 70s, dying at age 93 in 1900. And I've just realised those dates don't add up! In all the census records her birth would be around 1810/11 and an age of 93 would make it 1807-ish. So the LDS year is probably wrong?
2) When a child died in infancy, did parents in the 18th and 17th centuries often name the next child with the same name?

Thanks in anticipation of your suggestions,
Pat

[Geoffers]

Two questions:
1) I have found Edward Marmon (my ggg grandfather) and Thomas Marmon , both sons of Thomas and Sarah, both christened on December 10, 1819, at St Maurice, Winchester. So I guess they were twins?
It's possible, but dangerous to assume. I would recommend that you check the relevant parish registers. These contain more information than the mormon IGI - it is an excellent research aid, but no more. Parish Registers from 1813 contain less inforamtion than previously, but often record if children were twins - or if not, you might find a note in teh margin giving either ages or dates of birth.


But I have also found Emma Marmon, same parents, christened there a week later. Did triplets survive in those days?
Triplets did survive, though obviously medical care of the time made it unusual. Two children baptised one week and one a week later? - This would raise doubt in my mind as that the records you have seen are correct - or that the parents are the same (In my records, I have three sets of parents called William + Sarah, each having a son called William in the same year and same parish, things can get confusing).


Emma went on.....dying at age 93 in 1900. And I've just realised those dates don't add up! In all the census records her birth would be around 1810/11 and an age of 93 would make it 1807-ish. So the LDS year is probably wrong?
Ages are often recorded inaccurately on census returns and also on certificates when people died at great age. Being off by a few years is no great surprise.


2) When a child died in infancy, did parents in the 18th and 17th centuries often name the next child with the same name?
This frequently happened.

%0he records you have seen are correct - or that the parents are the same (In my records, I have three sets of parents called William + Sarah, each having a son called William in the same year and same parish, things can get confusing).</P>

Emma went on.....dying at age 93 in 1900. And I've just realised those dates don't add up! In all the census records her birth would be around 1810/11 and an age of 93 would make it 1807-ish. So the LDS year is probably wrong?
Ages are often recorded inaccurately on census returns and also on certificates when people died at great age. Being off by a few years is no great surprise.

Geoffers

[Steve Steere]

There is one thing to remember about the same name being attributed to the same parents, is that children were often privately baptised, and then later 'received into the Church'. The private baptism is where the new born child was poorly, and if survived received into the church at a later date.

The parish register for Fawley, Hampshire (included Exbury) was fortunate to have a rector who recorded the full details, those before & after him did not. Examples:

Baptism Exbury 1808 January 24 Ann daughter of Samuel & Ann DOWNTON, Late Ann Orman. Privately baptised. Recd into church 31 July 1808.

Fawley 1808 February 22 Elizabeth daughter of John & Elizabeth MUSSELWHITE, Late Elizabeth Tiller. 3 weeks old. Privately baptised. Recd into church 6 March.

As you can see it was sometimes days or months between the two, so it is possible for the same child to appear twice. I cannot say this has happened in your case but you need to be aware that it can happen.

It reinforces what Geoffers says in that the parish registers need to be looked at.

Regards,

Steve

[Pat English]

Thanks again to all of you who have helped, but I just thought I would let you know I have found an explanation!
I had found the four Marman children in Winchester had all been christened at St Maurice within the space of a fortnight in December 1819 -- two girls one week, two boys the next.
I happened to browse the excellent Hampshire Records Office and found the children were subject to a removal order and settlement papers in August 1819. Their ages are given, too. Great stuff... It's an interesting area of social history I didn't know existed. I'm just glad that although they all started, presumably, as paupers, the kids all did well, becoming reasonably well-off shopkeepers and ropemakers.
Best wishes,
Pat