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Rozzie
17-10-2008, 9:52 PM
I really need tuition in what Irish records are available, so that I can unravel a family secret. My Gt/Grandmother Emma Painter was always referred to as The Irish Granny. This turned out to be a total red herring and I spent years trying to find her. I unravelled part of her sad story just recently and this is how it goes. She was born into the Painter family in Oct 1838 in Wareham, Dorset. Her birth is not registered as it was not compulsory to do so at that time. Her family attended the non-conformist Presbytarian Church in Wareham, which indicates they may have originally been Quakers. There is no record of her baptism at that church. I found a simple entry of the name EMMA in Oct 1838 in the C of E Church, Lady St Mary. The only Emma born that year in Wareham - no surname and no parents names.

She then disappears completely, along with 15 year old Elizabeth Painter. Neither are in any Census records in 1841 or 1851. Nothing is ever heard of Elizabeth again, but Emma suddenly turns up in the 1861 Census records of Poole, Dorset, where she is now Married to Peter Way and has her own children, She is totally Irish saying she grew up in CORK and establishes herself as quite a character. She could not read or write and signed the Banns of her marriage with a cross, so she obviously did not get an education. When she married, she or someone else produced a birth cert which was that of a different Emma Painter, who died when 10 yrs old.

None of her children are named for her Mother or any of the Painter family.

Where did Emma go ? To Quakers or C of E in Cork ? Who took her in ? was Elizabeth with her ? Was her birth registered in Ireland.

Not knowing what records to look for is a dilemma. I would like to find the details of what happened in Ireland.

Any help at all would be very much appreciated.

Wirral
17-10-2008, 10:39 PM
but Emma suddenly turns up in the 1861 Census records of Poole, Dorset, where she is now Married to Peter Way and has her own children, She is totally Irish saying she grew up in CORK and establishes herself as quite a character. She could not read or write and signed the Banns of her marriage with a cross, so she obviously did not get an education. When she married, she or someone else produced a birth cert which was that of a different Emma Painter, who died when 10 yrs old.

In all the censuses from 1861 to 1901, Emma WAY, wife of Peter WAY, says she was born in Dorset. Where does the mention of Cork come from? I don't think you needed a copy of your birth certificate to get married, unless it was a Roman Catholic marriage. In which case, the original church marriage register may say the parish that Emma came from, not where she was living at the time.
Do the birth & marriage certificates confirm that you have the correct Emma? What was her father's name & occupation on her marriage certificate?

Mutley
17-10-2008, 10:55 PM
There is a birth registration for an Emma Painter in Wrexham in Oct-Dec quarter of 1838. To order the certificate the reference is 27/245

Procat
18-10-2008, 3:02 AM
Hi Rozzie,

I have slightly edited the name of your thread to make it (hopefully) more meaningful.

Rozzie
18-10-2008, 10:49 PM
Emma had the Southern Irish brogue and always said she was from Cork. However, in the Census records, she knew full well she had actually been born in Wareham, Dorset. On one ocasion only, did the Census taker enter Poole as her birthplace. I think the census taker entered Poole automatically.

As I understand it, the Baptismal Certificate was always used as identity for future marriage/death etc. After 1837, births were registered (but not always) and the birth cert produced to prevent bigamy. The cert that Emma produced when she married Peter Way, stated that her Father was Joseph Painter, a Farmer in Shapwick. This is not her birth cert, as Emma Painter, dtr of Joseph Painter of Shapwick, died in Shapwick at the age of 10 years. Emma could not read or write and probably did not realise it was the wrong cert that someone obtained for her.

Emma was a real character - known in the town as Granny Way - proprietor of a home made sweet shop. I have had letters from people who emigrated to USA/OZ etc, who wrote nostaligically of Granny Way and her slab toffee. Her illiteracy did not hold her back on that score.

I once found the Wrexham Emma Painter and it crossed my mind that she might have been registered there on 'their' way to the Ferry for Ireland. It could be an eye opener to get that copy of that birth cert.

What was the scandal all about, to be so secretive about Emma's existence, to whisk her out of the country. Apparently she talked of Ireland all the time but if she told anyone the secret, it has never been passed on. It took me 35 years to get this far and I would like to find out where she went in Cork.

Meanwhile I will send for that cert.

Mutley
18-10-2008, 11:11 PM
Emma was a real character - known in the town as Granny Way - proprietor of a home made sweet shop. I have had letters from people who emigrated to USA/OZ etc, who wrote nostaligically of Granny Way and her slab toffee. Her illiteracy did not hold her back on that score.


Sorry Rozzie, I have become really confused. Granny Way's toffee must have been made about 150 years ago. You obviously have other evidence to support her life.

Wirral says she has found her in the census up to 1901, you think she was born in abt 1838, therefore she left for Ireland in her 60's after the census.

Have I got it right so far?

Hall/Swan
18-10-2008, 11:38 PM
I really need tuition in what Irish records are available, so that I can unravel a family secret. My Gt/Grandmother Emma Painter was always referred to as The Irish Granny. This turned out to be a total red herring and I spent years trying to find her. I unravelled part of her sad story just recently and this is how it goes. She was born into the Painter family in Oct 1838 in Wareham, Dorset. Her birth is not registered as it was not compulsory to do so at that time. Her family attended the non-conformist Presbytarian Church in Wareham, which indicates they may have originally been Quakers. There is no record of her baptism at that church. I found a simple entry of the name EMMA in Oct 1838 in the C of E Church, Lady St Mary. The only Emma born that year in Wareham - no surname and no parents names.

She then disappears completely, along with 15 year old Elizabeth Painter. Neither are in any Census records in 1841 or 1851. Nothing is ever heard of Elizabeth again, but Emma suddenly turns up in the 1861 Census records of Poole, Dorset, where she is now Married to Peter Way and has her own children, She is totally Irish saying she grew up in CORK and establishes herself as quite a character. She could not read or write and signed the Banns of her marriage with a cross, so she obviously did not get an education. When she married, she or someone else produced a birth cert which was that of a different Emma Painter, who died when 10 yrs old.

None of her children are named for her Mother or any of the Painter family.

Where did Emma go ? To Quakers or C of E in Cork ? Who took her in ? was Elizabeth with her ? Was her birth registered in Ireland.

Not knowing what records to look for is a dilemma. I would like to find the details of what happened in Ireland.

Any help at all would be very much appreciated.

She could have gone anywhere, even return to her Irish family.. as long lost cousin etc.

Did she marry in Ireland before retuning to Poole??

Rozzie
19-10-2008, 12:22 AM
Emma was a Dorset girl, immediately whisked off to Ireland as soon as she was born in 1838 - either to a Church Orphanage run by Quakers, Presbytarians etc. She was not Catholic. She could have been taken in by a Church family - we just don't know. She came back to Dorset in her teens and married Peter Way in 1857 at St James Church, Poole, Dorset. She died in 1917 in Poole. The people who brought her up could have been related but I don't think so. As 15 year old Elizabeth disappeared at the same time and there is no record of her death, it is assumed she was the Mother of Emma and she probably died in Ireland. They may well have gone to a Mother & Baby home in Cork.

We know so much about her because she made a huge impression on the family and the town. We all have red hair because of her - generation after generation. It is possible that Emma was the product of rape.

Any clearer ?

Hall/Swan
20-10-2008, 12:38 AM
Clear as mud!!:)

The trouble is so many many records were destroyed over the years, esp 1916/1922.

Many records were only kept in local parishes.

Any idea of where in Cork she went? The best thing I can think of is school records. Very very few records are avalable online.

The complete Records IT section is 5 miles away from me but I have to go 80 miles to Dublin to use it!!|computer||banghead||banghead|

Hall/Swan
20-10-2008, 12:47 AM
Forgot to ask, do you have anything on Elizabeth that gives any hint of her maiden name, was she Irish?

Or did her parents come from Ireland, maybe years before or even her g/parents?

She "was whisked away to Ireland" at the start of famine times in Ireland, she survived that so she must have been hellped by someone, so some arrangements must have beem made. It could be that she returned to some relation there!!

Otherwise...why Ireland?

Rozzie
21-10-2008, 1:58 AM
As stated the Painters were a Dorset family and they had two daughters, Amelia 19 and Elizabeth 15. Amelia stayed in Wareham, married and died in Wareham when only 29. Elizabeth vanished at the same time as Emma and I assume she was the Mother of Emma - no marriage or death found in the whole of Dorset.

Why go to Ireland ? - most likely via Church connections. It was common for Parishes to pay for persons to move to another Parish in another County, if they had a job to go to, or to avoid the scandal of a baby born to a 15 year old ?. As this family were members of the Presbytarian Church, they may have originally been Quakers. There were Irish Quakers in Cork and they may have taken them in. We have no knowledge of where they lived in Cork. This eased the burden on the Parish funds. As for the Famine, the Irish who arrived in Dorset (and Wiltshire) quickly fled as they saw the same poverty and starvation they had left behind.

They may have had an Irish connection but Painter is a fairly common Dorset name. Both Elizabeth's parents were born in Wareham.

Emma could have come back to Dorset to escape the famine but her family in Wareham had all passed on by then. She went to Poole and bagged herself a nice Mariner with no shortage of fish. She was also industrious and made sweets in her kitchen. She could not sign her name, so school records would have been out. I think she was in an orphanage that put them to practical work.

What orphanages were there in Cork ? She could have been baptised in Cork in any denomination. How can I get a list of homes at that time ? Where on line can I find Irish/Cork marriage records - Elizabeth Painter could have married a nice Irish lad and we have a whole load of Irish rellys we know nothing of. Emma had such an influence on the family, and told such romantic stories of Ireland, we have all been over there. Ironic really, remembering she was born in 1838.

Anyone out there with Elizabeth Painter in their lineage ?

Hall/Swan
24-10-2008, 12:28 AM
Ok, there are no Painter family connections that you know of!

As stated, The trouble is so many many records were destroyed over the years, esp 1916/1922.

Many records were only kept in local parishes.

Any idea of where in Cork she went? The best thing I can think of is school records. Very very few records are avalable online.

The complete Records IT section is 5 miles away from me but I have to go 80 miles to Dublin to use it!

Also any census done at that time would not be Irish but a UK census, so it would be on the UK database!

Irish records were non existant/destroyed and we are only catching up on putting database togther now.

If you think she was a Quaker in Ireland then perhaps contact your local Quaker church and ask them about a suitable website to use for something like this, same with Presbyterians.

They should have orphanage information on what would be available for this period.

All records for orphanages etc will not be on Irish records for that time.

Summer
24-10-2008, 5:11 AM
Elizabeth vanished at the same time as Emma and I assume she was the Mother of Emma - no marriage or death found in the whole of Dorset.

Why go to Ireland ? - most likely via Church connections. It was common for Parishes to pay for persons to move to another Parish in another County, if they had a job to go to, or to avoid the scandal of a baby born to a 15 year old ?. As this family were members of the Presbytarian Church, they may have originally been Quakers. There were Irish Quakers in Cork and they may have taken them in. We have no knowledge of where they lived in Cork. This eased the burden on the Parish funds. As for the Famine, the Irish who arrived in Dorset (and Wiltshire) quickly fled as they saw the same poverty and starvation they had left behind.

They may have had an Irish connection but Painter is a fairly common Dorset name. Both Elizabeth's parents were born in Wareham.

Emma could have come back to Dorset to escape the famine but her family in Wareham had all passed on by then. She went to Poole and bagged herself a nice Mariner with no shortage of fish. She was also industrious and made sweets in her kitchen. She could not sign her name, so school records would have been out. I think she was in an orphanage that put them to practical work.

What orphanages were there in Cork ? She could have been baptised in Cork in any denomination. How can I get a list of homes at that time ? Where on line can I find Irish/Cork marriage records - Elizabeth Painter could have married a nice Irish lad and we have a whole load of Irish rellys we know nothing of.


Try googling "Mallow Heritage Centre" for an online database. The index is free but views of the records are not. Mainly RC records though, so maybe a dead end.

Not criticising, but you seem to be making a lot of assumptions about Elizabeth and Emma, Ireland and also connections to Cork. I've been given advice by people on this forum far more experienced and knowledgable about genealogy to only follow the facts rather than try to prove a family story. I realise in this case that action is pointing towards a dead end which I know myself is extremely frustrating, but otherwise you may be completely wasting your time and efforts (and $) attempting to prove something that may not be provable! Rather than jump to the Cork records/orphanages etc, why not try passenger lists or immigration records for Elizabeth/Emma as a start. That may be a more fruitful search?

Any other suggestions out there?

Rozzie
25-10-2008, 2:07 AM
Sorry, but you are assuming we are making assumptions. I have felt as if I was beating myself with a stick, because I have had to repeat again and again. All the relevant information, if carefully read, is contained in the very first message. Our tree, over 3,500 names back to 1525 is being researched in USA, Canada, Australia and Denmark. It was left to me to tidy up the problem of Emma. Everything has been verified and cross referenced. The only information we are trying to find is where Emma lived in CORK and what did happen to Elizabeth.

Given that all the Irish Census records were destroyed and possibly many Parish records, we were hoping that we would strike base with a knowledgable Irish Genealogist who would say 'go to this Site, or to that site, - write to ......institution - Cork History Society. Books for essential reading i.e History of Irish Orphanages. Quaker Records held in Cork, etc etc. The first sentence in the first Post, explains exactly what I am after. Emma was back in England in the 1850's, so missing records in 1917/22 are irrelevant. Emigration would not apply as we were all one nation up until 1949.

I help fellow genealogists wherever I can, photographing graves, houses, streets etc and researching my own stock of CD's, and I am ever grateful for the help I have obtained down through the years.

Subject closed, stick put away.

Summer
25-10-2008, 5:35 AM
Sorry, but you are assuming we are making assumptions. I have felt as if I was beating myself with a stick, because I have had to repeat again and again. All the relevant information, if carefully read, is contained in the very first message. Our tree, over 3,500 names back to 1525 is being researched in USA, Canada, Australia and Denmark. It was left to me to tidy up the problem of Emma. Everything has been verified and cross referenced. The only information we are trying to find is where Emma lived in CORK and what did happen to Elizabeth.

Given that all the Irish Census records were destroyed and possibly many Parish records, we were hoping that we would strike base with a knowledgable Irish Genealogist who would say 'go to this Site, or to that site, - write to ......institution - Cork History Society. Books for essential reading i.e History of Irish Orphanages. Quaker Records held in Cork, etc etc. The first sentence in the first Post, explains exactly what I am after. Emma was back in England in the 1850's, so missing records in 1917/22 are irrelevant. Emigration would not apply as we were all one nation up until 1949.

I help fellow genealogists wherever I can, photographing graves, houses, streets etc and researching my own stock of CD's, and I am ever grateful for the help I have obtained down through the years.

Subject closed, stick put away.

OK,
Did you try the site I suggested? They also have C of E records (parish) - I would have thought it was worth a shot.
Another, perhaps longshot would be to get in contact with Myrtle Allen who is part of a prominent Quaker family in East Cork. She may be able to help or at least point you in a particular direction re Quakers if you write her a nice letter C/-Ballymaloe House, Shanagarry, Co. Cork, Ireland.
Good luck.

JNicLiam
25-10-2008, 7:05 AM
Good Cork websites you may want to look at are http://www.ginnisw.com/ You may find it useful to contact the Cork Genealogical Society at http://homepage.eircom.net/~aocoleman/
and maybe ask them to include your query in their newsletter.
Jill

Hall/Swan
25-10-2008, 11:46 AM
You want Quaker stuff?

Here's some!!

There are references to Irish material available in it!

No one is asking you to repeat everything over and over again.

Although you do SEEM to be assuming she actually went to CORK, you don't seem to have any proof of this!

For all you actually KNOW she could have gone to Dublin and made up the story that she came from Cork if asked!! Cork City or County??

Some examples of what is available, from http://www.larfhc.org/quakers.htm

From there just do "Find" and enter "Ireland".....


Lunham, T. A.
Early Quakers in Cork, and Cork topographical notes Guy Cork, Ireland
1904


Wight, Thomas

A history of the rise and progress of the people called Quakers in Ireland from the year 1653 to 1700

W. Phillips
London
1800


Harrison, Richard S.

A biographical dictionary of Irish Quakers

Four Courts Press

Dublin, Ireland

c1997

Hall/Swan
25-10-2008, 3:10 PM
Records of Births, Marriages and Deaths

All births, marriages and deaths occurring since 1864 (and non Roman Catholic marriages occurring since 1 April 1845) should be on record in the General Register Office, 8-11 Lombard Street East, Dublin 2. For the period before 1864 parish records provide the only record of most baptisms, marriages and burials. Catholic parish registers are normally still held by the parish priest, but there are microfilms of many of them for the period up to 1880 in the National Library of Ireland, Kildare Street, Dublin 2. In some cases the written permission of the parish priest must be obtained before the microfilm can be seen. The National Archives has a copy of the National Library's list of the registers.

Church of Ireland parish registers for the period up to 1870 are public records. Registers are available for about one-third of the parishes. Many are still held by the local clergy, although some are now in the National Archives and more are in the Representative Church Body Library, Braemor Park, Dublin 14, and P.R.O.N.I. There are microfilms or other copies in the National Archives of some of the registers then held by the clergy. A list of all surviving registers is available in the National Archives. The names and addresses of the clergy are given in the Church of Ireland Directory. A list and a card index of registers in the National Archives may be consulted.

Records of marriage licences provide information concerning some Church of Ireland marriages before 1845. People wishing to obtain a licence to marry without having banns called were required to enter into a bond with the bishop of the diocese. The licence and bonds do not survive (in most cases), but the indexes to the bonds lodged in each Diocesan Court and the Prerogative Court are available in the National Archives. Some of the indexes have been published. Betham's abstracts to Prerogative and Dublin Diocesan marriage licences give further details. Some other records of marriage licences are indexed in the Testamentary card index.

Lesley Robertson
25-10-2008, 4:21 PM
A BG member has asked the Mods to take a look at this thread.

I don't think that some members realize how intimidating intense questioning can seem to a new member, especially when accompanied by changes in font (many people do see use of uppercase only as shouting).
It's clear, on reading the posts, that everybody is just interested and trying to help, though. I see only goodwill, if frustrated at times.

Rozzie, please don't be offended by people mentioning "assumptions". You've said yourself that the story you're working on is based a bit on guesswork, which is the same thing. It's not wrong, but it's useful when trying to help someone to understand what is in the paper trail, and what is hypothesis. For example, you know that Emma and Elizabeth vanished at the same time, you have a hypothesis (or assumption) that Emma was Elizabeth's daughter. You don't (yet) have the paper trail to prove that.

I have a few questions for you, simply to try and clarify the paper trail. I've read your messages twice, and I don't think they've been answered. You don't have to answer if you don't want to.

1: I assume that you have the baptismal certificates for Amelia and Elizabeth. Is the birthdate for Emma you give (Oct 1838) from that entry for "Emma" without a surname, or is there other evidence? Does the evidence that she was born into the family of Elizabeth and Amelia come from a family Bible, for example?

2: Is there any reason to suppose that Emma was not the sister of Amelia and Elizabeth? Late surprise babies do happen (eg my Dad was 11 years younger than his nearest brother, and apparently came as a bit of a surprise to his Mother!). Is the Emma Painter whose birth certificate Mutley found the daughter of Joseph who died at age 10?

3: Emma is missing from the 1841 and 1851 census returns, but is present thereafter from 1861 to 1901. When and where did she marry Peter Way? This is important as it narrows the period that she was away.

4: How do you know that she presented the wrong birth certificate (or any birth certificate) at her wedding? It would not have been easy to get a copy of the wrong one in those days. Is this a family oral record?

5: I don't think that you can treat Presbyterians and Quakers as synonyms. There's a lot of Churches under the heading Presbyterian (for example, the Church of Scotland) but Quaker beliefs are quite different and the two are normally mentioned separately when anyone talks about them both at the same time (as are the Baptists). It seems strange to me that a Presbyterian child would be sent to a Catholic country unless there was a good reason (many Presbyterian Churches regarded the Church of Rome as the enemy at that time). Since she kept saying that she came from Cork, in your place, I would be looking for relatives of Elizabeth & Amelia's parents in the Cork area. There is a large Presbyterian Church in Ireland, but it's much stronger in the North as it went to Ireland from Scotland in the 17th century.

Sometimes, when you've been working on a problem for a long time, things seem obvious when they aren't so to a fresh pair of eyes. Hopefully, breaking the story into a series of different points will make things clearer to those of us coming new to the problem, so please indulge me.

Lesley

Hall/Swan
25-10-2008, 11:27 PM
Well said!

As previously suggested;

Personally, I would contact the Quakers living nearest to you and ask what type of records would be kept in ireland over these years, where they would be and what they would advise!

Even for me to try to get records for my family I'd have great difficulty...

For example I have both my g/parents names dates of marriage and deaths... OK?

I drove over 150 miles to the Registry Office and back to look up these records in the hope they would give me their dates of birth so I could research their parents etc.

I was told I could not look at the records because I "did not have their dates of Birth"!!

The mainframe computer for the registry records office is just beside me but do you think i can go there to look up records?? NO!

So as for you finding someone in your situation, what do you think your chances are, given my experience??

I hope this gives you some idea of what is available!

Lesley Robertson
26-10-2008, 10:00 AM
I hope this gives you some idea of what is available!

One of the functions of the newsgroups and forums is to help people who can't get to the actual archives, isn't it?

There was a lot of talk about a year (?) ago on the soc.genealogy groups about a new Irish Family History Centre that was going to collect all remaining useful info from North and South to make it available to the diaspora.. One report I read was so glowing that it gave the imrpression that they thought they could rebuild the collection of burned records!

Did nothing come of it? Your comments make me grateful I'm mostly scots!
Lesley

Hall/Swan
27-10-2008, 12:19 AM
One of the functions of the newsgroups and forums is to help people who can't get to the actual archives, isn't it?

There was a lot of talk about a year (?) ago on the soc.genealogy groups about a new Irish Family History Centre that was going to collect all remaining useful info from North and South to make it available to the diaspora.. One report I read was so glowing that it gave the imrpression that they thought they could rebuild the collection of burned records!

Did nothing come of it? Your comments make me grateful I'm mostly scots!
Lesley

It is getting there piece by piece but it is slow due to checks, double checks etc.

One also has to understand that many many people are simply untraceable.

During the great famine (1840's) nearly 1 million Irish people died, many of these along the side of roads, Cromwell drove people off their land and told them to "Go to Connacht or Die".

Catholic schools etc were not permitted, marriages had to be sanctioned by the British. Many of their children did not exist on any records.

There are many many Mass Graves in Ireland where the people who died of starvation were just buied. no one knew who they were or where they came from!

Many of the records that were actually made were destroyed by the British Forces before leaving an area. Many more destroyed during the 1916 and 1922 rebellions.

There are almost 1 million people who are the "disappeared" and they will be untraceable.

Summer
27-10-2008, 3:12 AM
One of the functions of the newsgroups and forums is to help people who can't get to the actual archives, isn't it?

There was a lot of talk about a year (?) ago on the soc.genealogy groups about a new Irish Family History Centre that was going to collect all remaining useful info from North and South to make it available to the diaspora.. One report I read was so glowing that it gave the imrpression that they thought they could rebuild the collection of burned records!

Did nothing come of it? Your comments make me grateful I'm mostly scots!
Lesley

I suggested Rozzie to google the Cork website of Irish Family History Foundation under "Mallow Heritage Centre". As it's a commercial site I've been pulled up on providing a link before, hence the backdoor approach! But from my experience with it, it's excellent for parish records RC and COI, when outside the GRO records. I think the questions you've outlined Lesley will be very helpful in helping Rozzie (and us!) find out what she needs.
Cheers,
Summer.

Hall/Swan
27-10-2008, 11:23 AM
I suggested Rozzie to google the Cork website of Irish Family History Foundation under "Mallow Heritage Centre". As it's a commercial site I've been pulled up on providing a link before, hence the backdoor approach! But from my experience with it, it's excellent for parish records RC and COI, when outside the GRO records. I think the questions you've outlined Lesley will be very helpful in helping Rozzie (and us!) find out what she needs.
Cheers,
Summer.


Shhhh, we don't want her to know we are nosey!!|laugh1|

Ladkyis
27-10-2008, 11:42 AM
It is getting there piece by piece but it is slow due to checks, double checks etc.

One also has to understand that many many people are simply untraceable.

There are almost 1 million people who are the "disappeared" and they will be untraceable.


Not much hope of me finding my GUILFOYLES then, especially when I don't know where they came from or where they lived just that they were the parents of my Great grandfather and his brother who were actors. ~sigh~ We Irish are good at the sorrowful stuff

suzannewozere2
03-04-2012, 3:37 AM
http://
books.google.co.uk/books?id=8b4eREmqNj0C&pg=PA123&lpg=PA123&dq=painter+family+cork&source=bl&ots=twch_bvwMQ&sig=wtRDtcDxbzBmU88w3iUQVK3cIDI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=GXB6T670I8er8QP-5cyPBQ&ved=0CFoQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=painter%20family%20cork&f=false

Proves a connection with the name and Cork..nothing in 1911 but this for 1901 don't forget to click show all info box

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/results.jsp?census_year=1901&surname=painter&firstname=&county=Cork&townland=&ded=&age=&sex=&search=Search&relationToHead=&religion=&education=&occupation=&marriageStatus=&birthplace=&language=&deafdumb=&marriageYears=&childrenBorn=&childrenLiving=

Hall/Swan
04-04-2012, 1:32 AM
http://
books.google.co.uk/books?id=8b4eREmqNj0C&pg=PA123&lpg=PA123&dq=painter+family+cork&source=bl&ots=twch_bvwMQ&sig=wtRDtcDxbzBmU88w3iUQVK3cIDI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=GXB6T670I8er8QP-5cyPBQ&ved=0CFoQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=painter%20family%20cork&f=false

Proves a connection with the name and Cork..nothing in 1911 but this for 1901 don't forget to click show all info box

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/results.jsp?census_year=1901&surname=painter&firstname=&county=Cork&townland=&ded=&age=&sex=&search=Search&relationToHead=&religion=&education=&occupation=&marriageStatus=&birthplace=&language=&deafdumb=&marriageYears=&childrenBorn=&childrenLiving=

There are England born ones on 1911 Census.. http://
goo.gl/JBs5k[/ but as for a Cork link, nothing!

1901 ones b. England http://
goo.gl/T8ST1

Rozzie
05-04-2012, 9:11 AM
The trials and tribulations of family history research are blatantly obvious here.

With the help of a determined researcher (bless him) I finally got to the history of Emma. She was the illigitimate daughter of Mary Painter, born in 1838 in the village of Shapwick in Dorset. Because she was illigitimate, she invented a whole new world of her own. I have found out that this was not uncommon for a 'base born' child to do this. It is possible that her Father was an itinerant Irish Farm Labourer. She could not read or write, so all that she knew of Ireland would have been heard from others. Mary moved to Poole and in the 1851 Census, I ignored a child called EMILY and thought that family was not the right one, but it was.

She was so good at creating this story, she was able to maintain it for generations and it was passed down as 'fact'. I did think it was odd that at her marriage, she claimed her Father to be a Joseph Painter, a Farmer of Shapwick. Not a labourer, but a farmer. Her Grandfather had a brother called Joseph who died in his 20's, long before Emma was born, so I guess thats where she got it from. I have only been able to trace the Painters to Chettle and another brick wall arises. So that is the story of Emma.

Thanks to everyone who tried to help - what a little minx she was but I fully understand where she was coming from.

Roz