Gervais Gill/Selston Notts

[tannie]

Hi
At present I am trying to research the Gill Family from Selston, Notts. Gervais Gill was born about 1806 married to Elizabeth Heath. He was the builder and beer keeper of the original Sandill Tavern Bagthorpe. He died at the age of 81. I have tried to find his parents and have been given John Gill b 1762 of Selston m Ann Wass 1787.
If anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated.
Tannie

[Jan1954]

The IGI has a Jarvis Gill christened 19 June 1806 in Selsdon, Nottinghamshire - mother is Mary Gill, no father recorded.

Batch No.: P015741
Dates: 1694 - 1875
Source Call No.: 0095048, 0095050
Type: Film
Printout call No: 1235440

[tannie]

thanks for welcome and quick reply. Yes I saw that on LDS but I am not sure how to check this out. Note Mother Ann Gill not Mary.

[Jan1954]

Note Mother Ann Gill not Mary.Oops! Sorry! Should have re-read.|oopsredfa


Yes I saw that on LDS but I am not sure how to check this out.
Have a look here (http://www.familysearch.org/eng/Library/FHC/frameset_fhc.asp) to find the nearest Family History Centre to you. The films may be ordered and read.

[tannie]

Sorry but please excuse my ignorance but if one orders this film, what information do they actually give

[Peter Goodey]

Jarvis GILL baptised at St Helen, Selston on 19 Jun 1806, the base son of Ann GILL.

He was not related to John GILL/Ann WASS.

I have an interest in GILLs of Selston but to the best of my knowledge, your line is unrelated to mine. It would be interesting to prove otherwise ;)

[Neil Wilson]

Sorry but please excuse my ignorance but if one orders this film, what information do they actually give
From the LDS site
If you find a record with a film or batch number, search for the film or batch. You may find other family members in the same film or batch.
For example, if you found Alan Kensington on film number 1417888, do another search using only the film number. See if you can find other family members on the film.

[tannie]

Hi Peter
Thanks for your input. This John Gill and Ann Wass is sending me scatty. I have just had access to another members tree on Ancestry and they also show them as the parents of Gervais . Anyway I am deleting them off my tree as I think others with the same family interest take it for granted that this is so without knowing whether a thorough research has been done. I have no way of doing that from South Africa. Very frustrating eh!
Tannie

[Peter Goodey]

Tannie

I thought I'd sent a reply but it seems to have disappeared. If it eventually appears twice, that's why!

The information I posted about the baptism of Jarvis/Gervaise GILL was from the actual parish register (not IGI, not a transcription!).

Unfortunately I don't have any clues about who Ann, the mother, was.

I've extracted all the GILLs from the Selston registers, so if you need anything, give me a shout.

[tannie]

Hi Peter
Thanks for your offer of help. I am looking for the death of Gervais Gill b 1845, so far haven't found him in the GRO index. In the 1891 census he has a daughter Charentyne? age 8 mths. She doesn't appear again but I have found Catherine Amy Gill b 1891 d 1897 age 6, do you think this is the same person. Also have you any record of Gervais marrying Elizabeth Heath about 1831.
Hope I am not asking too much.
regards
Ann
ps several different spellings of Gervais throughout my records.

[Peter Goodey]

The daughter might possibly be Eliza Caroline b reg Sep 1890, died at the age of 2 (not mentioned in PRs).

I can't find Catherine Amy in the Selston PRs.

Jervis GILL m. Elizabeth HEATH 12 Apr 1830 at St Helen Selston

There's no offspring of Gervaise (born 1845) mentioned in the parish registers. Perhaps they were non-conformists or non-believers?

[bulwell]

Hi
At present I am trying to research the Gill Family from Selston, Notts. Gervais Gill was born about 1806 married to Elizabeth Heath. He was the builder and beer keeper of the original Sandill Tavern Bagthorpe. He died at the age of 81. I have tried to find his parents and have been given John Gill b 1762 of Selston m Ann Wass 1787.
If anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated.
Tannie
Hi
Gervase Gill was my great great grandfather. He died 23.12.1887 at Bagthorpe. Married to Elizabeth Heath. baptised 24.12.1809 at Selston. I have a record of his relation?? Ann Gill 26.2.1764 (not married) Before then William Gill b 14.7.1723 married to Hannah Clee 1744. Parents Jonathon Gell!! Elizabeth Taylor. Married 10.8.1715
I have my grandfathers portrait. best wishes
david

[bulwell]

The daughter might possibly be Eliza Caroline b reg Sep 1890, died at the age of 2 (not mentioned in PRs).

I can't find Catherine Amy in the Selston PRs.

Jervis GILL m. Elizabeth HEATH 12 Apr 1830 at St Helen Selston

There's no offspring of Gervaise (born 1845) mentioned in the parish registers. Perhaps they were non-conformists or non-believers?
Hi
With ref to my previous post. Gervase Gill had a son , Gervase b. 22.1.1845, who also produced a son Gervase Gill b. 3.5.1873. He produced 5 daughters. The youngest, Dorothy Emma Wass Gill b. 30.4.1911 was my mother.
best wishes
David

[Peter Goodey]

The youngest, Dorothy Emma Wass Gill b. 30.4.1911 was my mother.


That's interesting. Where does the "Wass" forename come from?

I'm always interested in talking about the GILLs of Selston in the hope of finding evidence to link the various families.

[Peter Goodey]

The youngest, Dorothy Emma Wass Gill b. 30.4.1911 was my mother.


To help me to orientate myself, what was her mother's maiden name please?

[pottoka]

There's no offspring of Gervaise (born 1845) mentioned in the parish registers. Perhaps they were non-conformists or non-believers?

Or perhaps the children were taken to the mother's parish to be baptised, if it was different. I have several families where that happened.

[bulwell]

To help me to orientate myself, what was her mother's maiden name please?
Dear Peter,
Dorothy Emma Wass Gill's mothers maiden name was Mary Chambers. b 14.9.1874 at Bagthorpe. She married Gervase Gill (builder) on 16.11.1895 Selston Parish Church. She died 28.9.1946. Her parents were William Chambers and Sarah Smithhurst. The Wass name comes from a distant grandfather dating back to Godfrey Wass b. 16.10.1643 North Wingfield. best wishes
David

[Peter Goodey]

Thank you.

I'm not too sure what you mean by a distant grandfather but there is another instance of the WASS surname rumbling around - Ann WASS married John GILL on 2 May 1784 at Selston.

Please see earlier messages in this thread. Some people have fingered Ann WASS as an ancestor. As you will see, in the absence of any evidence, I was sceptical to say the least.

But if we take the re-emergence of the WASS name as some sort of circumstantial evidence I'll be happy to reconsider.

As I understand it. Dorothy Emma Wass GILL's great grandfather was Jarvis/Gervaise GILL baptised at Selston on 19 Jun 1806, "the base son of Ann GILL". So was this Ann GILL a WASS? What do you have on this?

A separate point - William GILL and Hannah CLEE are my ancestors. I don't have any evidence at all linking them to your line. Do you have any?

[bulwell]

Peter,
My records were researched by my deceased sister from family records,in particular an old family bible, parish records, The Mormon records and Somerset House.
I am therefore reporting what I have been given, which is a record of the Flint and Gill connection.
My record of Ann Wass (c) 26.2.1764 Selston (not married). Her Parents Wiliam Gill (c) 14.7.1723 Attenborough, married Hannah Clee (c) 20.1.1720 Selston, married 19.11.1744 at St Nicholas. Nottm. Parents Jonathon Gell and Elizabeth Taylor married 10.8.1715 Attenborough and Jonathon Clee and Mary Cotton (Calton) (C) 12.3.1700 St Marys Nottm.. THis line ends here!
Ann Gill was not in the Wass line.
My mother Dorothy Gill's mother was Mary Chambers, grandparents Chambers/Smithhurst.It is in the Smithhurst line where we have the Wass connection.
So William Gill and Hannah Clee are from the same line as Gervase Gill if the link with Ann Gill holds!
This link to Ann Gill however seems strange. My record states that she was not married!
Please let me know if I can help further, but I am not an expert on ancestry!
best wishes
David

[bulwell]

The daughter might possibly be Eliza Caroline b reg Sep 1890, died at the age of 2 (not mentioned in PRs).

I can't find Catherine Amy in the Selston PRs.

Jervis GILL m. Elizabeth HEATH 12 Apr 1830 at St Helen Selston

There's no offspring of Gervaise (born 1845) mentioned in the parish registers. Perhaps they were non-conformists or non-believers?
Peter,
I reply to your comments regarding the Gill/Heath marriage. I have Gervase Gill (publican) bapt 19.6.1806 at Bagthorpe. d 23.12.1887. Married Elizabeth Heath bapt 24.12.1809 at Selston. Married 12.4.1830 at Selston.
best wishes
david

[tannie]

Hello David,

Thank you for your interesting posts on the Gill Family. It would appear that your Grandfather Jarvis Gill b 1874 would be the brother to my gt.grandmother Elizabeth Gill b 1870.

Elizabeth married Jonathon Dovey 1891 at Baford Register Office and the certificate shows her father, Jarvis Gill, Builder and witnessed by Sarah Peach and Gervase Gill (probably your grandfather).

The only discreprancy I see is the date of Gervase's christening, I have 19/6/1806 and you have 24/12/1809.

I have vague memories of staying with my grt.grandmother Elizabeth at a house in Alfreton Road, Middlebrook and it would be lovely to see your portrait of your grandfather, but it looks as though we both live far away from Selston. However, I am visiting the UK in three weeks and want to do a bit of grave hunting in Selston and Underwood. If possible could we get in touch by email.
regards
Ann

[tannie]

Thank you.

I'm not too sure what you mean by a distant grandfather but there is another instance of the WASS surname rumbling around - Ann WASS married John GILL on 2 May 1784 at Selston.

Please see earlier messages in this thread. Some people have fingered Ann WASS as an ancestor. As you will see, in the absence of any evidence, I was sceptical to say the least.

But if we take the re-emergence of the WASS name as some sort of circumstantial evidence I'll be happy to reconsider.

As I understand it. Dorothy Emma Wass GILL's great grandfather was Jarvis/Gervaise GILL baptised at Selston on 19 Jun 1806, "the base son of Ann GILL". So was this Ann GILL a WASS? What do you have on this?

A separate point - William GILL and Hannah CLEE are my ancestors. I don't have any evidence at all linking them to your line. Do you have any?

Peter

So many Gills from Selston area, as I said in my post to David, I am visiting the UK in November and I always visit my granparents grave in St.Helens, have you any suggestions that could help with our research into the Gill family
whilst I am over there.
regards
Ann

[tannie]

David

I have a very interesting copy of a page taken from the Nottingham Assizes March 1878 implicating amongst others, William Chambers, ? Smithurst, Aaron Smithurst amd Jarvis Gill in "Riotous Assembly" All were discharged. I think it was in connection with the Selston Enclosure Act.
Ann

[Peter Goodey]

My record of Ann Wass (c) 26.2.1764 Selston (not married). Her Parents Wiliam Gill (c) 14.7.1723 Attenborough, married Hannah Clee (c) 20.1.1720 Selston, married 19.11.1744 at St Nicholas. Nottm. Parents Jonathon Gell and Elizabeth Taylor married 10.8.1715 Attenborough and Jonathon Clee and Mary Cotton (Calton) (C) 12.3.1700 St Marys Nottm.. THis line ends here!


I think perhaps you have a typo there and you actually mean that Ann GILL was baptised 26 Feb 1764. This raw fact is true but if you're claiming that she was the unmarried mother (at the age of 42!) of Gervaise/Jarvis GILL, I am sceptical. I'm ready to be convinced otherwise but I think, as things stand, that your line ends in 1806.

Ann GILL (1764) was a daughter of my ancestors William GILL and Hannah CLEE. Do you have any evidence that she was the mother of Gervaise? Show me proof and I'll believe that the earth is flat!

I'm afraid that the rest of the quoted paragraph above as it relates to William GILL and his ancestors is simply wrong. Sorry. I won't correct it here because I don't believe that there's any connection to your line and it would only confuse the issue. Anyone who may be interested in William GILL can find his details on my website.






So William Gill and Hannah Clee are from the same line as Gervase Gill if the link with Ann Gill holds!


Please see the above remarks. I don't believe that William GILL and Hannah CLEE were related to your Gervaise.

Here's an alternative theory for you. Gervaise GILL's mother was Ann GILL, formerly Ann WASS, the widow of John GILL. The circumstantial evidence is that (a) they were a Bagthorpe family and Gervaise was born in Bagthorpe (William GILL lived in Selston itself), (b) the last child born to John GILL and Ann was in 1801 and (c) the burial of a John GILL was recorded in 1801. That's just a hypothesis - I don't have any proof.

I look forward to kicking this around some more.

[Peter Goodey]

Elizabeth married Jonathon Dovey 1891

Mentioning marriages has reminded me that marriage witnesses can be a fertile source of evidence. So, Ann and David, do you have any interesting witnesses at Selston marriages that you're interested in? In particular are there any witnesses that might suggest links between different GILL families?

[bulwell]

Dear Ann or Cuzzy bro (Cousin/brother) as they say within the Maori commuity for any distant relatives!
Thanks for the info. I can take a photo of grandad Gill and email it to you. My email is nickyflint AT xtra DOT co DOT nz
Grandad Gill was a significant master builder in the Notts area, particularly Underwood where he lived. He built many houses there and assisted very much with the building, Underwood Church, where he and his relatives are buried. he was quite a character and inherited his father and grandfathers gift of singing. They were entertainers...something I have also inherited from them. Due to shortage of Uk work, he emigrated to Canada 1911 to 1914. He took several of his builders with him. good luck with your search but Underwood Church holds many clues.
best wishes
david!

[bulwell]

David

I have a very interesting copy of a page taken from the Nottingham Assizes March 1878 implicating amongst others, William Chambers, ? Smithurst, Aaron Smithurst amd Jarvis Gill in "Riotous Assembly" All were discharged. I think it was in connection with the Selston Enclosure Act.
Ann
Ann
Yes it was . I believe the arrest was made on Underwood Common. They objected to its enclosure!! The Chambers?Smithurst connection was via Gervase Gills wife Mary Chambers who had Smithurst in the line. Wel done!
regards
david

[Peter Goodey]

He was the builder and beer keeper of the original Sandill Tavern Bagthorpe.

Were there not two Gervaise GILLs born in Selston in the 1870s, one a bricklayer, one a publican?

[tannie]

Were there not two Gervaise GILLs born in Selston in the 1870s, one a bricklayer, one a publican?

Peter, He was both, 1851 Census HO107/2125 Jarvis Gill Head age 45 Bricklayer K.Beer House.

regards
Ann

[Peter Goodey]

Ah yes. Earlier than what I was thinking of. Thank you.

[tannie]

Hi Peter

I found this on the internet. Slides of Selston Past & Present by Maurice Bamford.

The Old and New Sandhill Tavern
"The old Sandhills Tavern was built by Gervase Gill in the 1850s. stood along side of what is now the slip road between Alfreton Road and Mansfield Road and was owned by the Gill Family. The present one stands opposite the old one and is owned by the Home Brewery Co and opened in 1939".

On my list to visit next month
Ann

[tannie]

Dear Ann or Cuzzy bro (Cousin/brother) as they say within the Maori commuity for any distant relatives!
Thanks for the info. I can take a photo of grandad Gill and email it to you. My email is nickyflint AT xtra DOT co DOT nz
Grandad Gill was a significant master builder in the Notts area, particularly Underwood where he lived. He built many houses there and assisted very much with the building, Underwood Church, where he and his relatives are buried. he was quite a character and inherited his father and grandfathers gift of singing. They were entertainers...something I have also inherited from them. Due to shortage of Uk work, he emigrated to Canada 1911 to 1914. He took several of his builders with him. good luck with your search but Underwood Church holds many clues.
best wishes
david!

Hi David did you receive my email
Ann

[bulwell]

thanks for welcome and quick reply. Yes I saw that on LDS but I am not sure how to check this out. Note Mother Ann Gill not Mary.
Hi
thanks for the info re Jarvis (Gervase) Gills' mother Ann Mary Gill c.26.2.1764 selston. No father recorded.
regards
david

[Peter Goodey]

Jarvis (Gervase) Gills' mother Ann Mary Gill c.26.2.1764 selston.

Apart from the coincidence of the name (which was Ann and not Mary), what evidence is there that she was the mother?

[tannie]

Were there not two Gervaise GILLs born in Selston in the 1870s, one a bricklayer, one a publican?

Peter

very cross-eyed looking at census forms but have found the two Gervase Gills born in the 1870s.

They would be cousins - 1901 census Jarvis b 1873 Bricklayer wife Mary nee Chambers (Parents Gervase and Rebecca)

1901 census Jarvis b 1876 Innkeeper wife Elizabeth nee Kinder (Parents Thomas and Ann nee Goodall )

Ann

[Peter Goodey]

Thanks Ann.

You'll be coming over soon, won't you? Do you think you'll have time to do some research in Nottingham?

I have a note of a will that might be of interest - Luke GILL of Bagthorpe, proved July 1843. That's all I know and don't even know if the note is accurate. If you were going to be in the record office, it might be worth getting that.

[bulwell]

Peter

very cross-eyed looking at census forms but have found the two Gervase Gills born in the 1870s.

They would be cousins - 1901 census Jarvis b 1873 Bricklayer wife Mary nee Chambers (Parents Gervase and Rebecca)

1901 census Jarvis b 1876 Innkeeper wife Elizabeth nee Kinder (Parents Thomas and Ann nee Goodall )

Ann
Hi Ann
1851 census re Jarvis Gill b 1845 had 4 sons, THOMAS, william, john and jarvis.
From 1881 census, Thomas Gill b 1833 produced 6 sons, william,sam,thomas,john,JARVIS and william.
from 1861 William Gill b.1833 produced 1 son William.
So both THomas Gill b 1833 and brother Jarvis Gill b 1845 produced sons named Jarvis. David

[tannie]

Thanks Ann.

You'll be coming over soon, won't you? Do you think you'll have time to do some research in Nottingham?

I have a note of a will that might be of interest - Luke GILL of Bagthorpe, proved July 1843. That's all I know and don't even know if the note is accurate. If you were going to be in the record office, it might be worth getting that.

Hello Peter

Yes I came across similar information yesterday also Edward Gill of Selston Nov 1828 - whoever he may be. Hopefully I will be visiting the Archives in Nottingham so will take a look and see what I can find.
Ann

[Peter Goodey]

Edward Gill is just an administration, not a will, and he's one of mine. Don't waste time on that one. Luke may be interesting to you because he may be related.