deliah boss and george wilson [Archive] - British Genealogy & Family History Forums

chaney999

09-10-2008, 12:44 PM

Does anyone have any information regarding my gg grandmother deliah boss. She was the daughter of Riley Boss and Susan Shurensi Smith. They also had a daughter namely Brittannia Boss. She married William Wilson from Hull. However Deliah married George Wilson from HULL.

It is believe that George and William Wilson were brothers, therefore two travelling (gyspy) sisters marry two brothers. Could this be that the Wilson brothers were also gypsies. I cannot seem to locate anything to say that they were.

If anyone has any information regarding the Wilsons from HULL or Deliah I would love to hear.

babygirl101

09-10-2008, 7:03 PM

Ann65

09-10-2008, 7:33 PM

There was a romany Wilson family in the Yorkshire area, that much I do know.

Deliah was Deliah Wilhelmina. Unfortunatly she is one of the few children of Riley that I cant find a baptism for. George Wilson I have dates for but not sure where I picked them up? probably a death registration as I only have a year: b. cir 1829 d.1884.

As well as Deliahs full sister Brittania, there was Charles Boss b.cir 1815, Rileys son by Charlotte Hammond, who married an Elizabeth Wilson, they were married in 1828 at Leicester. He was transported and died in Australia in 1837.

Ann65

09-10-2008, 7:38 PM

There is a thread with the genealogy of the Boss family right here

http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32436

Ann65

09-10-2008, 7:48 PM

Wilsons:

I dont have a lot on this family, and what I do have is in direct relation to their intermarriages with the Swales and Cunninghams, also romanies from Yorkshire.

Grace Cunningham c.1793 Selby Yorks married John Wilson 1814 Thorne, Yorks.
They had at least 3 children:

Grace Cunningham Wilson c.1814 Howden Yks
Elizabeth Cunningham Wilson c.1816 Holm-on-spalding moor, Yks m.Jeremiah Swales 1834 Hull.
Benjamin Wilson c.1819 North Cave, Yks

-------

A Joseph Cunningham c.1773 Kendle Westmoreland, married Hannah Wilson in 1795 at Thorne Yorks, and their son William Cunningham married Elizabeth Wilson b.cir 1810 Kirkby Moorside, Yorks.
William and Elizabeth had Benjamin 1841 Rawcliffe, married Mary Wilson, and also a daughter, Magdalena b.cir 1847 Crowle, married James Wilson b.cir 1831 Beverley.

So as you can see, the Wilsons/Cunninghams and Swales repeatedly intermarried in the Yorkshire area.

Sue Mackay

09-10-2008, 7:54 PM

They also had a daughter namely Brittannia Boss

What a wonderful name - far better than Margaret Thatcher for a female Prime Minister :D

Have found the registration of the marriage of Britannia BOSS to William WILSON in Sculcoates, March qtr 1848 Vol 22 p.380

There was a death registered for a Britannia WILSON Sep qtr 1849 in Kingston upon Hull. Was this Britannia dying young, possibly in childbirth, or was it the death of the first child? There is no age on the index.

Deliah WILSON is on the 1861 census at RG9/3591; Folio 112; Page 5
2 William Square, Kingston upon Hull

George WILSON 30 Labourer b Hull
Deliah wife 29 b Hull
(children on next page, all born Hull)
Lavinia 9
Ann 8
Susan 6
Sally 4
William 2

Further up the page from George and Deliah, at 36 Garden Street:

Susan BOSS 60 Wid Hawker of hardware b Oxfordshire, Banbury
Sarah BOWSTEAD dau mar 17 Fisherman's wife b Lincolnshire, Carrington
Mary Ann McCARTY lodger 16 laundress b Ireland

Ann65

09-10-2008, 8:00 PM

1861 Census

RG9/3591/112/5

2 Williams Square, Holy Trinity, Hull, Yorkshire

George Wilson, 30 Labourer Hull
Deliah Wilson, 29, Hull
Lavinia Wilson 9 Scholar Hull
Ann Wilson 8 Scholar Hull
Susan Wilson 6 Scholar Hull
Sally Wilson 4 Scholar Hull
William Wilson 2 Hull

very close by (on the same enumerator page)

36 Gardener St
Susan Boss widow 60 hawker of hardware b.Banbury Ox
Sarah Bowstead 17 daughter fishermans wife, b.Carrington Lin
Mary Ann McCarty lodger 16, laundress b.Ireland

The above Susan Boss is of course Susan "Shurensi" Boss, Rileys Widow, and Sarah Bowstead is Siara c.1841 Frithville Lincs, who married William James Bowstead.

Ann65

09-10-2008, 8:01 PM

hahahah DITTO!!

Waitabit

09-10-2008, 8:10 PM

I found easily the marriage of Britannia Boss to William Wilson -Mar.1/4 1848 Sculcoates...22- page 380

Not found on censuses

The death of 'a' Riley Boss Dec. 1850 Kensington ..3-254

Deliah more difficult, without dates, all guess work.

Ann65

09-10-2008, 8:14 PM

Yep I found Brittanias marriage easy - it was actually harder to work out that Brittania was her actual name since all I had to go on was "Annie" .....

Get back to you in 2 ticks about Allefer Raney - Ive seen that before its an alias for one of the Herons!!!.......

Waitabit

09-10-2008, 8:15 PM

Didn't look too hard there did I?

Ann65

09-10-2008, 8:16 PM

PS while Im looking up that Allefer Raney reference -

Yes, the story goes that Riley Boss moved south to the Potteries, Kensington and died there in 1850. It was a well-known gypsy stopping place, and he is buried in Brompton churchyard (reputedly). He cut his hand whilst skinning a rabbit and it turned nasty......

Shorensy Boss is buried in Hull, in 1868.

Ann65

09-10-2008, 8:18 PM

Didn't look too hard there did I?
lolol nah they are easy enough to find - you just need to have a nose for it, and you obviously do!

Ann65

09-10-2008, 8:21 PM

1871 In Camps, Holdforth Brickyard, Bishop Middleham, Durham

John Gray 30 Wood Turner, Clothes pinn maker London (John s/o Jack (John Budd) Gray & Maria Boswell - this Maria Boswell was sister of Lucy as married Riley Boss)
Warstey Gray 30 Norwich (Vashti d/o Zacky Lee & Charlotte Hammond
Eliah Gray (f) 11 Selby Yks (daughter Deliah)
/
Arthur Young 34 Clothes Pinn Maker Lincs (Oliver Heron)
Warstey Young 28 Lincs (Vashti Heron d/o Aaron)
/
George Young 20 Basket Maker Hull
Rhoda Young 24 (wife) England
/
Allifer Raney 55 razor Grinder England (Aaron Heron)
Mary or May Boss 40 (unmarried) Razor Grindrs wife! London (Deloreni Boss c.1820 Woolpit Sfk d/o Riley and Charlotte)
Hanagar or Hauagar Boss (f) 17 Yorks (Actually Froniga)
Louisa Boss 14 Yorks
Delaliah Boss 12 Yorks

Ann65

09-10-2008, 8:25 PM

Waitabit: Deliah Wilhelmina was supposedly born cir 1830 at Wootton Lincs, or Hull, Yorks, and shes one of the few Riley Boss baptisms Ive never located.

Brittania was baptised in 1826 at Grasby, Lincs.

Ann65

09-10-2008, 8:30 PM

chaney999

09-10-2008, 8:38 PM

Deliah Wilhemina Boss was born 1832 in Banbury, Oxfordshire and died in 1905 in Hull. The above threads are correct that Susan Boss did live nearby, I have susan later residing with George and Deliah at a ripe old age. Fortunately I do have the childrens name and dob for deliah and george.

My questions are with the Wilsons and the two wilsons, William and George marrying the two sisters. On Brittannia's death I have lost William and cannot locate him, however it is such a common name.

I am aware that there are gypsy roots with the Wilson name but so far cannot connect William and George with any of them.

William was born about 1829 in Hull and George about 1831 in Hull. I am at present only presuming they were brothers.

I think this site is great, I dont feel alone searching for this now. Thanks

Ann65

09-10-2008, 8:47 PM

James Heron aka Riley Boss (At some point he was James Vanis reputedly).

s/o Leshi Heron and Seni Boss.

m1 Charlotte Hammond by whom he had:

George Boss (no dates) married Elizabeth Nicholson

Charles Boss b.cir 1815 d.1837 Australia transported. m, Elizabeth Wilson 1828 Leic.

Robert Boss c.1817 Milverton Wks d.Australia transported m.Elizabeth Letitia Rex in Australia.

Delorania Boss c.1820 Woolpit Sfk m. Aaron Heron (aka Allefer Raney)

Golias aka Elias Boss c.1826 Sudbourne Sfk, transported with John Budd aka Jack Gray in 1844 to Van Diemens Land (Tasmania) m. Frances Bonney in Tasmania.

m2.By Lucy Boswell b.cir 1813 d/o Tyso Boswell & Sophia Heron

Naomi (Omi) c.1832 Wootton Lin reputedly Married Joseph Crabtree, but died young.

Silvester b.cir 1827 married Notavena Smith 1851 Kirkby Lancs- Emig to USA

Isaac "Haggi" b.cir 1836 Wootton, Lin, m.Mary Smith b.cir 1837 Liverpool. Transported but returned and reputedly took surname Jones, altho he appears on census as Isaac Boss.

Elizabeth aka Lydia b.cir 1837 Newmarket m.Phoenix Taylor

Moellus no info on this. However there is a Moellus s/o of John Boswell c.1825 Tydd St Mary Lin.

Nelson b.cir 1840 Wragby Lin m. Sophia Heron d/o Big Frank

Samson b.cir 1843 "Nettleby" (Nettleham? Nettleton?) Lin married 1 Susie Gray and 2 Janie Rowells 1883 Tallapoosa, Alabama, USA. - emigrated to USA.

Suposedly after rejection by Riley, Lucy emigrated to the USA with her family.

m3. Susan " Shurensi" Smith aka "Yoki Shuri" (Lucy Shuri).

Louis c.1820 Little Thurlow Sfk married Alice Gray

Desibera c.1825 (believed to be "Separai" according to legend) m.Frampton Heron

Brittania aka Annie c.1826 Grasby Lin m.William Wilson

Newcombe "Newton" c.1828 Burton By Lincoln m.Angelina Smith

Deliah Wilhelmina b.cir 1830 Wooton Lin or Hull Yorks, m.George Wilson

Susan b.cir 1831 Preston Yks m.Posthumous or Potamus Gray s/o Piramus c1832 Outwell Cam

Agnes (a spinster) c.1832 Wootton Lin

Penelly c.1837 Winteringham Lin

Narroly c.1839 Walsham Le Willows Sfk, died young

Siara c.1841 Frithville Lincs, married William James Boustead.

Ann65

09-10-2008, 8:48 PM

Oh you certainly arent alone searching for them - I only wish I could give you more on the Wilsons. I cant locate them myself, wish I could!!!

chaney999

09-10-2008, 9:30 PM

I have more information on Deliah, I believe her grandfather was Elijah Smith and grandMother was Sophia chilcott, any ideas of where they fit in. I am also told that my grandmothers name Susan 'Shurensi yoko' smith was in acutal fact not a smith but was a Petulengro and I believe the same for her father.

Ann65

09-10-2008, 10:29 PM

Petulgengro = Romany for Smith.

Chilcotts - earliest i hve is as follows:

Elizabeth Smith b.cir 1751 m1 Ambrose Smith
m2 John Chilcott after Ambrose Transported/died in Oz 1790.

John Chilcott and Elizabeth married Bethnal Grn 1792 had John Chilcott 1793.
He married Ruth "Liti" Lovell d.1866 Flaybrick Birkenhead Cheshirre.

They had:

Caroline married Tom Lee
Susan aka Shuri married Taiso (William? Young aka Hern)
Erosabella c.1831 Wootton Lin
Union b.cir 1815 married Charles lee
Charles d.cir 1865 Birkenhead Chs
and Florence married Sylvester "Wester" Boswell c .1812 Dover Kt s/o Tyso Boswell and Sophia Heron.

Waitabit

10-10-2008, 12:37 AM

Pls could u re-post that ref to Allefer Raney - I didnt have that!! such things are gold..... Delorania Boss married Aaron Heron (aka Young) who went by that alias, and Delorania Boss was Rileys daughter....

Sorry, Ann65 been away playing in the laundry.Here you go.

1871 Bishop Middleton pge 21

Allifer Raney Head. unm'd.55 b. England. "Razor" ? sharpener.

Mary Boss "Housekeeper?" 40 b.London wife of Razor ? sharpener
"Han[ia]gar Dtr 17 Yorkshire
Louisa Dtr 14 ""
Deliliah 12 """"
WAlter son 8 ..Yorkeshire pge 22
Leo[un]ville Dtr 5 "

RG 10 / 4909 14

Tried to find these children on FreeBMD under Boss. Louisa the only poss.

Louisa Maria Boss Jun. 1859 --Banbury 3a-642.

babygirl101

11-10-2008, 7:00 AM

I've been looking at the some of the census returns for the Boss family and have come across more Romanies. I’ve no idea if they’re of interest but thought I’d add them to the ever growing list, so here goes:-

Charles Boss b 1844, Rockliffe, Yorks, spouse Lyari b. 1828 Worcs.
Children:- Emporer b. 1864 and Walter b. 1861. living in a gipsy caravan, Altrincham Cheshire (the 1871 census shows Charles and Syria living in Altrincham with the children shown above, but also a Joseph b. 1791).

With them is Uriah Boss b. 1833 and his spouse Sinai b. 1831.

There’s also an Eli Boss b.1859, spouse Agnes b. 1859, children Annie b. 1874, Famie b. 1877 & Rhoda b. 1878.

There's another entry in 1881 for an Agate Boss b. 1825 Leeds, a horse dealer and his spouse Mary Boss b. 1837.

They are recorded as living at ' St Marys Rd In Field Gipsies Tents' Garston, Lancs, along with 3 other families :-

Thos. Mullanger and spouse Clementina Mullanger.
Sampson Ribmeon /Ritmein, spouse - Eva and their children.
Elias Robinson and spouse Julia Robinson.

There's also a William Boss b. 1856 Lancs, spouse Louisa Boss and their children Albert Boss b. 1879 and a baby, Bertha Boss. With them are:-

R. Boss b. 1846 and his spouse Jane Boss b. 1841 and their children Ada Boss b. 1875 and Zub Boss b. 1874.

Enoch Boss b. 1857 and his spouse Sarah Boss b. 1859. No children.

Louis Herring b. 1861 and his spouse Lily Herring, b1861 and a sister Eda Herring b. 1866.

In the final tent are:-

Annie Boss b. 1866
Arthur Boss b. 1867
Elizabeth Boss b. 1838
Jane Boss b.1865
Nelson Boss b.1869
Oliver Boss b. 1861
Phoebe Boss b. 1862
Walter Boss b1859

I also spotted these on the 1851 censusy, again recorded as gypsies this time in Warmingham Cheshire:-

Beddy Boss b. 1817
Betsey Boss b. 1815
Dinah Boss b. 1848
Eliza Boss b. 1842
Elizabeth Boss b. 1839
Gustavas Boss b. 1824
Houcy Boss (Nancy Boss) b.1785
Michael Boss b.1842
Nathaniel Boss b. 1776
Sarah Boss b.1849
William Boss b. 1816

Just thought I'd throw these into the 'melting pot', maybe, somewhere along the line there's a connection.

BG :)

Ann65

11-10-2008, 10:02 AM

Charles Boss b 1844, Rockliffe, Yorks, spouse Lyari b. 1828 Worcs.
Children:- Emporer b. 1864 and Walter b. 1861. living in a gipsy caravan, Altrincham Cheshire (the 1871 census shows Charles and Syria living in Altrincham with the children shown above, but also a Joseph b. 1791).

With them is Uriah Boss b. 1833 and his spouse Sinai b. 1831.

There’s also an Eli Boss b.1859, spouse Agnes b. 1859, children Annie b. 1874, Famie b. 1877 & Rhoda b. 1878.

In response:

Charles Boss married Saiera Lovell (also seen as Lyari Syria and Sarah) children: Mairenni, Emperor, Walter, Eli. Charles Boss was s/o Anselo Boss & Eliza Boss.

Uriah Boss was Charles brother, and he married Seni Smith (also seen as Sinai & Simia)

The Eli Boss is Charles son He reputedly married Norah Smith but as quoted she appears as Agnes on the CR. Children were: Sana or Annie, Phemie/Famie/Amy, Rhoda, Zeuby, Emperor and Columbus.

Wife Norah Smith was the daughter of Charlotte Boss and Phoenix Smith, Charlotte being sister of Charles and Uriah Boss.

Ann65

11-10-2008, 10:15 AM

There's another entry in 1881 for an Agate Boss b. 1825 Leeds, a horse dealer and his spouse Mary Boss b. 1837.

They are recorded as living at ' St Marys Rd In Field Gipsies Tents' Garston, Lancs, along with 3 other families :-

Thos. Mullanger and spouse Clementina Mullanger.
Sampson Ribmeon /Ritmein, spouse - Eva and their children.
Elias Robinson and spouse Julia Robinson.

There's also a William Boss b. 1856 Lancs, spouse Louisa Boss and their children Albert Boss b. 1879 and a baby, Bertha Boss. With them are:-

R. Boss b. 1846 and his spouse Jane Boss b. 1841 and their children Ada Boss b. 1875 and Zub Boss b. 1874.

Enoch Boss b. 1857 and his spouse Sarah Boss b. 1859. No children.

Louis Herring b. 1861 and his spouse Lily Herring, b1861 and a sister Eda Herring b. 1866.

In the final tent are:-

Annie Boss b. 1866
Arthur Boss b. 1867
Elizabeth Boss b. 1838
Jane Boss b.1865
Nelson Boss b.1869
Oliver Boss b. 1861
Phoebe Boss b. 1862
Walter Boss b1859

The Agate Boss listed above is actually Isaac "Haggi" Boss who was a son of Riley & Lucy and transported. However he returned with his daughter to England. His wife was Mary Smith.

Sampson Ribmeon is really Sampson Robinson who married Fambridge Smith. Their son Eli is present with wife Julia Boswell d/o Sylvester Boswell and Florence Chilcott. Fambridge was a daughter of Ambrose Smith by Marilla Draper.

The others I cant help with Im afraid.

babygirl101

11-10-2008, 10:39 AM

Well done, as always Ann you've provided the solutions.

BG |angel|

RosieM

11-02-2009, 10:54 PM

hi, I have a relation married Grace Alice Wilson born in seaton if i remember correctly. Married reubin Hollis...produced 2 daughters, one of which Jane went on to marry George price in 1876...these were my GG Grandparents. i think grace's mother , again if I remember correctly, was Margaret Cunningham....so I believe these could all be related to the people you mention. All my relations were gypsies...Im sure Wilsons were ...Letitia Mobbs/Smith d.o Bethania & james Mobbs was my GG Grandmother...her daughter Clara then married The said George Price's Son Reubin....Complicated is not the word for this family... I wish i could fing things about George Price...but not a thing. He gives his dads Name as also George on his wedding cert...can't recall if dead or not, think possibly so.he says he is 21....(1876) but on census at Stanley cum wrenthorpe yorks 1881 he's still only 20/22! He also gave the middle name on wed cert of Attrick...Was it simply A trick??? I havent found his parentage...says he was born in notts tho.....Any Idea's??
Thanks RosieM

Ann65

16-02-2009, 11:17 AM

I dont know anything about the Price family Im afraid. I do know (and am related to) some of the Cunninghams. They intermarried heavily with the Wilsons and all of them seemed to come from the Yorkshire area. Grace was a name that popped up regularly. The Cunninghams also intermarried heavily with the Swales family.

chaney999

07-03-2009, 11:47 PM

I now have a marriage cert for Britannia 'Annie' Boss and William Wilson. They were married January 25th 1848 in Sculcoates, Hull. They were both living in New George Street, Hull. The father of william is James Wilson (occupation Hawker). The cert does not give ages it only states 'full age'. I am now stuck. I am sure that james wilson was from the gypsy fraternity. Does anyone have any ideas of where to go next?

JaneJ

08-03-2009, 9:11 PM

Ann65

11-03-2009, 9:41 PM

Am v interested in the Swales Cunninghams Wilsons as that is my family. Cristiana Swales married Thomas Rhodes had Thomas Rhodes married Jane Cunningham had Harriet married Ambrose Gray my great grandparents.

Most of this lot appear to have spent at least some time at Kirkby Moorside, Yorks.

With regard to the Clarks - dont know anything about them but its interesting to note my own branch of the Grays includes several Clark Grays......

Please tell me more.....

JaneJ

12-03-2009, 11:16 PM

Hi Ann,

I think it might be easier if I just list a lot of names and dates for you, then if any ring a bell I can send you more detailed info.
Some of the birth and death dates are approx' from census reports or marriage cert's. I haven't listed marriage dates as this list is getting a bit long;)
Here goes.

George Swales 1810 m Margaret Cunningham 1813
John Swales 1845 - 1915 m Mary Jane Forrest 1845 - 1886 2nd wife Isabella Cunningham 1851 - 1912
Jacob Swales 1867 m Mary Gordon 1869
Henry Swales 1853 - 1940 m Elizabeth Varey 1855
Dinah Swales (Sewalls) 1800 - 1895 m John Gordon 1801 - 1875

Henry Cunningham birth unknown m Jane Unknown
William Cunningham 1825 - 1900 m Margaret Gordon 1825 2nd wife Isabella Gordon 1832 - 1898
Isabella Cunningham 1851 - 1912 m William Miller 2nd husband John Swales 1845 - 1915
Jane Cunningham 1862
Margaret Cunningham 1865 - 1950 m John Young 1861 - 1931
Henry Cunningham 1853 - 1917 m Mary Gordon 1859 - 1925
Sarah Cunningham 1884 m Alfred Young 1880
Margaret Cunningham 1813
Isabella Cunningham 1851 - 1912

Ambrose Wilson 1800 m Christina Miller 1800
Sarah Wilson 1837 - 1912 m William Young 1836 - 1906
Christian Wilson 1816

Hope these are useful if you have any info on any of them it would help me fill in some details too.

Jane.

Ann65

13-03-2009, 3:50 PM

ok my branch starts with James SWALES b.cir 1786 Wrelton Yks married Esther SOWDEN b.cir 1794 Holm on Spalding Moor Yks, the Dtr of Jeremiah and Jane.

James & Esther SWALES had:

Thomas Swales c.1812 Kirkby Moorside married Magdalena CUNNINGHAM in 1834 at Castleford. She being d/o Richard CUNNINGHAM (see Cunninghams below).

Jeremiah Swales c.1814 Kirkby Moorside married Elizabeth Cunningham WILSON
James Swales c.1816 Kirkby Moorside married Mabel BUSFIELD
Hannibal Swales c.1819 Kirkby Moorside married Prudence SMITH d/o Wm & Elizth.
Jane Swales c.1821 Kirkby Moorside (no other info)
Mary Swales c.1822 Kirkby Moorside married Richard CUNNINGHAM
Robert Swales c.1824 Kirkby Moorside married Ann DAVEY
Elizabeth Swales c.1827 Kirkby Moorside (no other info)
Frank Swales c.1831 Kirkby Moorside (no other info)
Christiana Swales c.1829 Kirkby Moorside married Thomas RHODES (My Gt x2 Grandparents).

Christiana & Thomas RHODES had a son Thomas b.cir 1840-50 reputedly in Hull, who married Jane CUNNINGHAM b.cir 1854 York - (not found her yet) and their daughter was Harriett RHODES b.cir 1877 Hull married my Grt Grandad, Ambrose GRAY.

Moving over to the CUNNINGHAMS

Richard CUNNINGHAM c.1790 Whitgift Yks, s/o John, married Mary MILLER in 1809 at Selby Yks, she being the d/o Joseph & Magdalen Miller c.1793 Cawood Yks.

Richard and Mary CUNNINGHAM s children were:

Magdalena c.1810 Selby married Thomas Swales (above)
Richard c.1812 Selby married Mary Swales (above)
Hannah c.1819 Mkt Weighton, married Richard ARNOLD s/o Joseph Arnold & Ann Busfield.
Grace c.1821 Mkt Weighton (no other info)
Jane c.1830 Cliffe (ditto)
Ann c.1830 Sth Cave (ditto).

Now Richard Cunningham had a sister, Grace c.1793 at Selby, and she married John WILSON in 1814 at Thorne Yks.

Grace and John WILSON had:

Grace Cunningham WILSON c.1814 Howden Yks
Elizabeth Cunningham WILSON c.1816 Holm on Spalding Moor married Jeremiah SWALES in 1834 at Hull.
Benjamin WILSON c.1819 Nth Cave

And the whole family continues in similar fashion, intermarrying into the same surnames.

The Swales seen to have originated further north, another branch of the family includes

Francis Swales c.1793 Aycliff Durham, married Christiana Stephenson, 1800 at Pocklington.
They had a son Hannibal Swales c.1814 at Aycliff who also married a Christiana. They had children at places such as Yarm, Pickering and Stockton, Dur. Hannibal and Christianas daughter Loviniah married a John Swales and had a daughter Margaret 1868 Scarborough who married Benjamin Beswick.

The occurrance of the unususal name Hannibal in both these Swales families leads me to consider they were related somehow, especially since they all seemed to arrive in Yorkshire about the same time.

Similar reasons led me to note another CUNNINGHAM family - that of Joseph CUNNINGHAM and Hannah WILSON. He was b.cir 1773 Kendle, Westmoreland, and married Hannah in 1795 at Thorne, Yks. They had a large-ish family and frequented Selby and Rawcliffe amongst other places. Again the intermarriage between the Cunninghams and Wilsons is evident.

JaneJ

15-03-2009, 10:52 PM

Many Thanks Ann,

You have given me loads of info to chew over.
Like you I have come across some quite unusual names that appear over and over, and surnames given as first or middle names when the families married one another. I have also found this in my Scottish side of the family, it sometimes makes it easier to trace the families but with all the inter-marriage in the travelling side it's so easy to mix them up.

Well back to the paperwork to double check everyone and see if I can find any of your lot on any of my cert's and census reports...:)

Jane

JoanneM

26-03-2009, 1:27 PM

Just to add some info to this as I’ve recently got some parish reg marriage details which mention Cunninghams, Swales, Rhodes and Boswells, and also link back in to the Smith and Gray line. Thought I’d post it in case it was useful.

Matilda Boswell born c.1871 Barwick in Elmet, d/o Sistance Charlotte and Lemontina Boswell married James Cunningham in the Howden area of east Yorkshire in 1893. James Cunningham was born c.1870 (from his age at death) and died 1894 again in the Howden area.

Matilda then made a second marriage to Thomas Boswell on 6th June 1897 in Hull. The witnesses were William Swales and Ann E. Swales.

Thomas Boswell was born c.1856 in Newark and had also been married previously, to Adheline Boswell who was born c.1857 in Tuxford and who was the daughter of William Boswell (think s/o Elijah Boswell and Charlotte Smith) and Bethania Gray, d/o William Gray. Thomas and Adheline Boswell were married 10th December 1877 at St. Nicholas in Lincoln, Thomas named his father as William Wilkinson :confused:, although he gave his surname as Boswell and Adheline named her father as William Smith (she married as Adelina Smith). When Thomas married Matilda in 1897 he named his father as William Boswell, deceased.

I think that Thomas’ mother was Jane and that he had a brother John, born c.1859 Newark, who married Maria Ann/Miriam Smith d/o Thomas and Sophia Smith, Thomas being the son of Moses Smith and Eldria Gray, and Sophia being the daughter of Dennis Smith and Eleanor/Ellen Charlotte.

Another marriage, again in Hull, 28th March 1888 is Alfred Rhodes aged 21, hawker, father James Rhodes, deceased, to Lemontina Boswell aged 19, father Riley Boswell, hawker (Riley being the son of Elijah Boswell and Harriet Metcalf). Witnesses were James Rhodes and Mary Rhodes.

I think I’ve found Alfred and Lemontina in 1901 at Sculcoates (Lemontina being listed as ‘Mimie’), and if it is them Alfred is claiming a birthplace of Barton, Lincolnshire, although I can't at the minute see him in a census before 1901.

Phew! Not complicated at all...............:)

JoanneM

26-03-2009, 2:48 PM

Matilda Boswell born c.1871 Barwick in Elmet, d/o Sistance Charlotte and Lemontina Boswell

Matilda Charlotte, not Boswell...........|oopsredfa

Ann65

26-03-2009, 5:06 PM

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Alfred Rhodes b.cir 1860ish married in 1888 at Hull..... possibly a relative of my Thomas Rhodes, who married Jane Cunningham. They would have been my grt x 2 grandparents.

I shall go have a further nose on Ancestry I think...

The Riley Boswell f/o Lemontina must surely be Herilah/Riley Boswell b.1827 Bole Notts??

JoanneM

26-03-2009, 5:22 PM

The Riley Boswell f/o Lemontina must surely be Herilah/Riley Boswell b.1827 Bole Notts??

Yes, that's the one.

I've been trying to find out a bit more about my OH's Charlot(te)/Sharlot(te) line. They are definitely mixed up with the children of Elijah Boswell, and seem to move away from Lincolnshire, and into Yorkshire, stretching from the Hull/Selby area up to Scarborough. And now I'm finding mention of Swales, Cunningham and Rhodes.

Ann65

26-03-2009, 5:46 PM

Which is exactly what I found. My great Gran Harriet Rhodes married Ambrose Gray a definate romany rai. Harriet was d/o Thomas Rhodes, Hawker, and Jane Cunningham, and Thomas father was also Thomas, who married Christiana Swales - and from there on in they simply intermarry as the ROM folkis do. Over and over until it makes an unreadable mess of any family tree you try to print :) I love it.

JoanneM

26-03-2009, 6:37 PM

I know just what you mean. :)

I've just found these two newspaper reports, are the people yours?

Hull Packet and East Riding Times, Friday 11th Jan 1867
BARTON PETTY SESSIONS, YESTERDAY – Christiana Rhodes, a hawker, from Hull, was charged with, that she being a person to whom a hawker’s license was granted, did refuse to exhibit the same to William Thorsby (he being then and there a peace officer) when demanded. The defendant was liberated on payment of 0s, 6d, costs.

Hull Packet and East Riding Times, Friday 18th Feb 1870
FATAL RAILWAY ACCIDENT – On Wednesday, as an old woman named Grace Wilson, a hawker of pots, was crossing the railway at the Long-lane crossing, Beverley, she was caught by the buffer of the Scarborough express, and died almost immediately. The body was removed to the Beverley station. Deceased was 82 years of age.

Ann65

26-03-2009, 7:46 PM

Not at all sure of the Wilson ref- need to know more of the family. But the Christiana Rhodes one looks peachy!

Ann65

26-03-2009, 7:54 PM

hmmmmmmmmmmm wonder if Grace Wilson was the w/o John....... ie Grace Cunningham b.cir 1793 Selby. ....

JoanneM

27-03-2009, 9:43 AM

hmmmmmmmmmmm wonder if Grace Wilson was the w/o John....... ie Grace Cunningham b.cir 1793 Selby. ....

I did wonder if it was her. I've just had a look on freebmd, the age is still 82, and her name is given as Grace Cunningham Wilson.

Ann65

27-03-2009, 10:21 AM

well I think it must be her then - she had at least two daughters baptised as Cunningham Wilson - one of whom was her namesake.

flora

27-03-2009, 1:49 PM

I too have Wilson's, Cunningham's and Swales, in my tree, add to these the Gordon's Kelly's Hartley's, Moses, Knowell's, Miller's and Youngs all from nothern England and Scotland.
The inter-marriages between these families can be seen throughout my tree, sometimes even marrying the widows of their own brothers.

My own Grandmother was a Young whose parents were John Young b: 1861 Aberdeen and Margaret Cunningham b: circa 1865 Sheffield.

There is one Sarah Clark (John's mother) b: circa 1830 in Derby who I cannot find any info on other than her name on her children's birth cert's and various census reports.

Does anyone have any information on the Clark's I don't even know if she was born into a travelling family or married in?

I have a Sarah Clark born circa 1835 in my tree place unknown she married a James Baillie occupation unknown ,although James brother William Baillie,s occupation Basketmaker.

I also have surnames Wilson(line i am looking for)Cunninghams,Swales,Hartley,Lee and others,all Hawkers,Horsedealers,Gen dealers.

Hope this is some help to you.
Flora

RosieM

29-03-2009, 8:15 AM

Hi...my ggg grandmother was Grace Alice Wilson born in selby...but she married one Reubin Hollis....are they all related or have i got something wrong?? My Grace's mother was Margaret Cunningham....Tho, think off top of my head my Grace was born about 1830...

onder if it was her. I've just had a look on freebmd, the age is still 82, and her name is given as Grace Cunningham Wilson.[/QUOTE]

JaneJ

29-03-2009, 8:58 AM

Hi Flora,

My Sarah Clark is driving me mad..|banghead|

The only concrete info I have on her is her childrens birth cert's all say she was married in Durhan on the 1/03/1855, I've not been able to trace the marriage cert' (I even paid for one, but not right).

The only ref: to her birth place is on the 1871 Kinross census then it is a "do" under her husbands place of birth, Derby England, all other census reports say England. This is the Scots way of saying "foreigner" ;)

I have lost all trace of her after her husbands death on the 18/03/1881, just before the 1881 census.

Wow, just had an idea.....will look up marriage certs for her 2 youngest children, this will at least give me an idea if she was still alive or not.

Sometimes writing it all down clears the old grey cells:D

Will let you know any info I get.
Jane
PS loads of info on the Hartley's, do you need anything.

Ann65

29-03-2009, 9:08 AM

if writing it down didnt clear the brain cells none of us would be here.

however, marriage certs only name fathers, not mothers.

BUT having said that, Margaret/Margareta/Magdelene/Magdelina are all names that tie in with the Romany Cunningham Wilsons. So please share any finds.

Similarly, any info on the Hartleys, or indeed any other branch of the wandering folks you have recorded, will no doubt come in useful on these boards for someone, somewhere, sometime, even if 5 yr from now. I more or less shove my folkis up everyones noses cos I dont want my research to disappear if anything happens to me, I just want that info available, for anyone who looks for it. If you know what I mean....

JaneJ

30-03-2009, 9:23 AM

Hi Ann,

Well, brain cells really in a muddle now:) I pulled of 5 cert's from SP last night the info has me more confused than ever and I still can't pin down Sarah Clarks death:confused: Though you will find the Scots talk too much (that of course doesn't apply to me;) ) we are very good at filling in forms. I've been lucky and most of my lot come from Scotland and the BMD's all carry mothers info and birth cert' have the parents marriage place and dates, which is all well and good, except people lie....I know this is hard to believe but true.

I will give you examples of what I found last night.Sarah YOUNG b; 14/13/1874, 89 Lower Bridge St, Stirling. Father James YOUNG, unreadable Dealer Mother: Sarah Young ms Clark Married: 15/13/1856 Durham what's this, all the other children have 01/03/1855, it was recorded by James so being a man I'm hoping that he is just like all men and forgot the date: D Young Sarah was married twice, so to confirm mothers approx death dates I looked them up.

Marriage took place in Catholic Church in Coatbridge, Lanarkshire, on the 12/03/1891. George Robertson, Iron Works Labourer, aged 25. Father: James Robertson, Brick Works Labourer. Mother: Margaret Robertson, nee Devlin. His parents came from Ireland, but seem to have no Gypsy conections. Sarah Young, Domestic Servant, aged 20??? (wrong age) Father: John Young, Iron Works Labourer, Deceased. (wrong first name and occupation) Mother: Sarah Young, nee Clark Deceased.

Second marriage:Took place at St Patricks, Coatbridge, Lanarkshire on the 16/01/1920. John McKeown Hammerman, aged 48. Father: Henry McKeown, Tube Work Labourer, Deceased. Mother: Elizabeth McKeown nee Johnstone. Deceased. Sarah Young or Robertson, Charwoman, Widow, aged 46, (right age) Father: James Young, Iron Works Labourer, Deceased. (right name, wrong Job). Mother: Sarah Young, nee Clark, Deceased.On her death cert' 03/08/1940 in Coatbridge, it gives both of her Husbands names, correct Fathers name but his occupation is still an Iron Works Labourer, but Sarah's age is correct.

Now my conclusion is: Sarah Clark died between 1881 and 1891. I have a census report for Darlington, Chapel St, 1881 with a Sarah Clark and 4 children 3 of whom are the right ages and country of birth, BUT Sarah is said to be a Puddlers Wife?? So I can't be certain of this census, but it is the only one I can find that matches in every other way. Also James died on 08/03/1881 in Lanarkshire and was a dealer in hardware.????? a bit of a stretch really.So you can see why I am so confused, and still no nearer to finding Sarah's death cert' and info on her parents.

Jane.

JaneJ

30-03-2009, 2:11 PM

I've looked up my info on the Wilsons and hope they may help someone.
Here goes:
Ambose WILSON: b:abt 1800 no other info.
Wife: Christina MILLER b:abt 1800 no other info.
Daughter: Christian WILSON: b:abt 1816 Hexham.
Daughter: Sarah WILSON: b:abt 1837 Blairsdale, Lankashire. Died 04/07/1912 in Leith, Scotland.
Sarah married William YOUNG in Wakefield Yorks on the 10/07/1854.
William was born in York abt 1836 and died on the 28/11/1906 in Leith.

Another branch:
Robert WILSON: b:20/02/1804 Whitehaven, Cumberland. died 1845, at North St, South Shields.
Married Chistian FORREST: b: 09/03/1809 at Longframlington, Northumberland.
Children: Robert Wilson 1832, Christiana 1833, North Shields, Jacob 1836 N/Shields, Swales Wilson 1838 Northumberland, Mary 1843 Jarrow, Thomas 1948 N/Shields, and finally Elizabeth Wilson b:1846 Jarrow died 10/04/1888 Elgin, Scotland.

Elizabeth married Matthew HARTLEY on the 29/01/1866 in South Shields.
Matthew b: 1845 Yorks, died 03/09/1922 in Edinburgh.

Where I do not give exact dates is where I do not have birth and death cert's, and my info is from census reports.

Hope this helps someone
Jane

tracybsmith

18-06-2009, 6:39 PM

I have a Grace Cunningham (c1793) marrying a John Wilson (c1795) their daughter Elizabeth Wilson (c1817) married Jeremiah Swales (c1815) their children were Esther (c1840), Jeremiah (c1843), Mary Ann(c1846), Hannah (c1847), John (c1850), James (c1852), Joseph (c1854), Elizabeth (c1857), Robert (c1858) and Selina (c1860).
Mary Ann married Charles Edeson (c1835) their children were Jeremiah (c1862), Frank (c1871) and Mary Ann (c1867).
Jeremiah married Annie Stranach and had Jeremiah, Mary, Lily, Charles, Frank, Joseph , William, Annie and Violet born 1906 died 1962.
Violet my grandmother married my grandfather Joseph Cunningham born 1904 died 1951.
Joseph Cunningham's parent were Joseph Cunningham born 1884 died 1916 and Nancy/Annie Maguire born 1886. Nancy's siter Janey married Joseph's brother William Cunningham.
Their father was Richard Cunningham born 1858, their mother was Elizabeth Morrison born 1861.
Richard's father was William Cunningham born 1824 thei mother was Martha. Martha remarried an Anthony Garvey. Can anyone help beyond this date or provide any other links

chaney999

19-06-2009, 9:22 AM

I am still eagerly hunting the Wilsons from Hull. I have lots of information regarding my g grandmother Deliah Wilhemina Boss and her family. D/O Riley Boss and Susan 'yoki shur' smith. Deliah married George Wilson and her Sister married William Wilson. I have William Wilsons and Brittannia Boss marriage certificate and Williams father was James Wilson, Hawker.

The Boss family also married into the Herons and the Grays and all seem to settle in Hull area. Heenan Gray and Sardinia Gray were children of Pothamus Gray and Susan Boss (another sister of Deliah and Brittannia) and they were living in a caravan in Hull. However it seems that at some point Heenan Gray was in fact living with Deliah and George.

Whilst I seem to know everything about the Boss/Boswell/Grays, I am struggling to find any of the Wilsons in Hull and specifically James Wilson.

TonyD

19-06-2009, 12:35 PM

I'm connected to the Cunningham, Wilson & Swales families.

My maternal grandmother was Mary Jane Wilson (1888-1967); her side of the family settled in Hull.

Mary Jane was the daughter of John Wilson (c1853 Hunslet Carr -bef 1896) & Margaret Cunningham (1847, Thorne).

John Wilson (above) was the son of Benjamin Wilson (1811, Ripon - bef 1871) & Margaret (Unknown).

Benjamin Wilson (above) was the son of Benjamin Wilson & Elizabeth (both dates unknown).

Margaret Cunningham (above, wife of John Wilson) was the daughter of Richard Cunningham (c 1811, Selby - bef 1881) & Mary Swales (c 1820, Kirkby Moorside).

Richard Cunningham's & Mary Swales' ancestors are as listed previously in this thread.

I am trying to find a baptism for the William Cunningham born c 1824 that would link him to this family ......

....

Richard CUNNINGHAM c.1790 Whitgift Yks, s/o John, married Mary MILLER in 1809 at Selby Yks, she being the d/o Joseph & Magdalen Miller c.1793 Cawood Yks.

Richard and Mary CUNNINGHAM s children were:

Magdalena c.1810 Selby married Thomas Swales (above)
Richard c.1812 Selby married Mary Swales (above)
Hannah c.1819 Mkt Weighton, married Richard ARNOLD s/o Joseph Arnold & Ann Busfield.
Grace c.1821 Mkt Weighton (no other info)
Jane c.1830 Cliffe (ditto)
Ann c.1830 Sth Cave (ditto).

...

I have him in 1851 in Hull living with/visiting George & Grace Miller. He is described as George's brother but I think it more likely that Grace is his sister. Grace Cunningham (see above quote and cf DOB and place of birth) married a George Miller in 1847.
(census ref HO107/2363/239/14)

By 1861 William is married with a family; they are in a tent at Brampton Bierlow at the time of the census (ref RG9/3510/111/23). I believe he married Martha Hartley Jackson at St James' in Hull in 1851.

He is dead by 1871 and his wife has remarried.

I have been unable to find his birthplace in Yorkshire or to find him in the 1841 census. From the 1851 & 1861 census his birthplace looks like Attrope/Astrope/Albrope/Lathorpe.

Any help much appreciated.

TonyD

19-06-2009, 1:48 PM

....

Matilda Boswell born c.1871 Barwick in Elmet, d/o Sistance Charlotte and Lemontina Boswell married James Cunningham in the Howden area of east Yorkshire in 1893. James Cunningham was born c.1870 (from his age at death) and died 1894 again in the Howden area.

...

Would have any more info on the James Cunningham you mention, please?

I have a James Cunningham born c 1870 in Pontefract but living in Hull 1871-1891; he was either the son or the grandson of Richard & Mary (nee Swales) Cunningham. He is recorded as their son in 1871 & 1881 but Mary's as grandson in 1891.

Thanks.

JoanneM

19-06-2009, 4:10 PM

Would have any more info on the James Cunningham you mention, please?

I have a James Cunningham born c 1870 in Pontefract but living in Hull 1871-1891; he was either the son or the grandson of Richard & Mary (nee Swales) Cunningham. He is recorded as their son in 1871 & 1881 but Mary's as grandson in 1891.

Thanks.

Hi Tony,

Sorry, I'm afraid I don't have any other information than I had posted, but if you do find anything else out about James I'd be interested to know.

Jo. :)

TonyD

20-06-2009, 1:24 AM

Hi Tony,

Sorry, I'm afraid I don't have any other information than I had posted, but if you do find anything else out about James I'd be interested to know.

Jo. :)

Thanks Jo.

I've added his marriage to my "to do" list for next time I'm in Beverley. I'll let you know if I find him.

chaney999

04-07-2010, 8:55 PM

I have moved on slightly with the WILSON line in Hull. My G Great uncle William Wilson who married Britannia 'annie' Boss was residing at 44 Garden Street, Hull after the death of Britannia in 1849. The interesting thing is that Williams profession on this census is 'protestent minister' and he has numerous persons living at this accomodation. I can only assume that this is some sort of missionary = housing the homeless.

Also on this 1851 census is Williams father JAMES WILSON born c1796 in LONDONDERRY, IRELAND.

I am now becoming more confused. The only WILSONS that seem to be in the HULL area are those connected to the CUNNINGHAMS - To date i have not been able to confirm or not whether my WILSON family are connected to this family. I am unable to confirm this as clearly WILLIAM's father was JAMES from IRELAND and all the research above dictates that the WILSONs were in the Yorkhsire area and no mention of a JAMES. Im sure somewhere along the line they will be.

I have documentary evidence that WILLIAM and his brother GEORGE along with his father were travellers and they did marry into the Boss family.

If anyone has any information regarding JAMES then i would be grateful for any assistance.

Little Egypt

20-07-2010, 9:24 PM

Hi i have been reading this thread with intrest the second tent is my ggrt grandfather Arthur Boswell with his mother Eliza/Elizabeth Boswell d/o Anselo and and Eliza sister of the Charles boss below, the father is missing the father was Joseph/Josiah Boswell s/o Edward and Phillis.. good thread.

I've been looking at the some of the census returns for the Boss family and have come across more Romanies. I’ve no idea if they’re of interest but thought I’d add them to the ever growing list, so here goes:-

Charles Boss b 1844, Rockliffe, Yorks, spouse Lyari b. 1828 Worcs.
Children:- Emporer b. 1864 and Walter b. 1861. living in a gipsy caravan, Altrincham Cheshire (the 1871 census shows Charles and Syria living in Altrincham with the children shown above, but also a Joseph b. 1791).

With them is Uriah Boss b. 1833 and his spouse Sinai b. 1831.

There’s also an Eli Boss b.1859, spouse Agnes b. 1859, children Annie b. 1874, Famie b. 1877 & Rhoda b. 1878.

There's another entry in 1881 for an Agate Boss b. 1825 Leeds, a horse dealer and his spouse Mary Boss b. 1837.

They are recorded as living at ' St Marys Rd In Field Gipsies Tents' Garston, Lancs, along with 3 other families :-

Thos. Mullanger and spouse Clementina Mullanger.
Sampson Ribmeon /Ritmein, spouse - Eva and their children.
Elias Robinson and spouse Julia Robinson.

There's also a William Boss b. 1856 Lancs, spouse Louisa Boss and their children Albert Boss b. 1879 and a baby, Bertha Boss. With them are:-

R. Boss b. 1846 and his spouse Jane Boss b. 1841 and their children Ada Boss b. 1875 and Zub Boss b. 1874.

Enoch Boss b. 1857 and his spouse Sarah Boss b. 1859. No children.

Louis Herring b. 1861 and his spouse Lily Herring, b1861 and a sister Eda Herring b. 1866.

In the final tent are:-

Annie Boss b. 1866
Arthur Boss b. 1867
Elizabeth Boss b. 1838
Jane Boss b.1865
Nelson Boss b.1869
Oliver Boss b. 1861
Phoebe Boss b. 1862
Walter Boss b1859

I also spotted these on the 1851 censusy, again recorded as gypsies this time in Warmingham Cheshire:-

Beddy Boss b. 1817
Betsey Boss b. 1815
Dinah Boss b. 1848
Eliza Boss b. 1842
Elizabeth Boss b. 1839
Gustavas Boss b. 1824
Houcy Boss (Nancy Boss) b.1785
Michael Boss b.1842
Nathaniel Boss b. 1776
Sarah Boss b.1849
William Boss b. 1816

Just thought I'd throw these into the 'melting pot', maybe, somewhere along the line there's a connection.

BG :)