Looking for Bromsgrove local knowledge

[Martin Stephens]

Hello,

I'm trying to find out where the Pleck Stores were located on Crab Tree Lane, Sidemoor, Bromsgrove. Please can anybody help? I suspect that they were close to the junction between Crab Tree Lane and Broad Street but I'm not sure.

Regards

Martin

[Keith Houghton]

Martin

Greetings from Sydney! Has anyone answered your query regarding the Pleck Stores yet? I have only just seen this. I was born and brought up in Perryfields Crescent in the Sidemoor district (1938-c.1962) and my parents lived there until 1990. I remember Pleck Stores well, and have been there many times; it was located on Crabtree Lane, exactly facing up Broad Street, so that as you walked down Broad Street you effectively walked towards it. My recollection was that there were no other shops on either side, it was quite on its own. In the 50's it was owned by a family whose surname was George, and was locally known as "Georges' " rather than by its more formal name.
Hope this helps but if you have any further queries, please get in touch. I don't have a Bromsgrove map to hand but can find one without much trouble.

Regards

Keith Houghton

[Martin Stephens]

Hello Keith,

Thanks for the reply, you are the first. I can visualise the location of the the Pleck Stores from your description. The reason that I was asking was that my Lammas ancestors were living in the Pleck, Sidemoor in every census since 1841 but I could never locate the Pleck on any map! When I learnt of the Pleck stores I thought that this could give me a clue.

From a 1902 OS map of Sidemoor, there is a small square of cottages off Crabtree Lane opposite the end of Broad Street. Was this the Pleck? Was Broad Street also known as the Common? These are two locations that I have some trouble identifying.

Thanks for getting in touch.

Martin

[SCRITTI]

Hi I'm also having trouble figuring out where Sidemoor Common was, and also Pitchen or Puchen, Mauncies Hall or variants of, sidemoor allotments, cuckolds corner.
Any help would be really appreciated.
I'm researching the Peplows, Gossages, Troths, Wakemans, Woods, Waldrons, Kendalls, Crocketts, Muggs, Davenports, Laughers, Ashfields, Tranters to name but a few from Bromsgrove and Belbroughton.
Cheers
Lesley

[Martin Stephens]

From the 1841 Census (HO107 piece 1195/6 folio 2):

"Enumeration District 9 -- From the Brook in Rotten Row, the Foundery Yard and Houses by the Park, both sides of Rotton Row, The Putcheon, Hundred House, Bewelhead, the whole of Sidemoor except the Pleck and Church Lane."

Actually going through the Census returns there are some houses in Stourbridge Road mentioned between Rotten Row and the Putcheon.

Looking at the 1902 1:2500 scale OS map of the area, I believe that Rotten Row was the nick name for Stourbridge Street, which approximates to the area around the junction between the Strand, Market Street, Stourbridge Road and Birmingham Road on modern maps. The enumerator then headed north on Stourbridge Road, which was not built up in 1902, until he reached a cluster of houses north of the junction between Stourbridge Road, Santridge Lane and All Saints Road. I think that this cluster was "the Putcheon". He then continued north to the junction between Stourbridge Road and Bewell Head. In 1902 there was a small group of houses and the Hundred House Inn at the junction so I think that this is the area known as "Hundred House".

I tried to attach a map in .GIF format but although it is 17Kb on my computer, the BBS says it's 30Kb and too big! :-(

Regards

Martin

[Keith Houghton]

Hi Martin,

Sorry for the delay in commenting on your latest. I think you are right about Rotten Row; it was the extension of Stourbridge Street where it meets with the Strand. However, I have never heard of the Putcheon, although there were certainly a row of Victorian cottages immediately north of Santridge Lane in the 50’sand 60’s, and they might still be there now.

I have not been back to Bromsgrove for 15 years, but the Old Hundred House was on the corner of Bewell Head and Stourbridge Road when I was last there. It was converted into the British Restaurant during the WWII (I think this was part of the community war effort: I remember eating there once as a child, we purchased plastic counters which we exchanged for a meal). After the war it was turned into a private residence by a family named Goode, who had six or seven daughters (no sons!). The Hundred House was replaced by a new pub of the same name, situated some 200 metres further north on the corner of Broad Street with Stourbridge Road. There is a rather charming drawing of the Old Hundred House dating from 1875, reproduced in the Bromsgrove Society’s “Bygone Bromsgrove Picture Book” 1983.

On your earlier email, I think you have correctly pinpointed the Pleck on the 1902 SO Map, but I have never heard of Sidemoor Common. I am in touch with some Bromsgrove contacts with local history knowledge, and will try to obtain answers or get them to write direct to the website.

Regards,
Keith

[Keith Houghton]

Hi I'm also having trouble figuring out where Sidemoor Common was, and also Pitchen or Puchen, Mauncies Hall or variants of, sidemoor allotments, cuckolds corner.
Any help would be really appreciated.
I'm researching the Peplows, Gossages, Troths, Wakemans, Woods, Waldrons, Kendalls, Crocketts, Muggs, Davenports, Laughers, Ashfields, Tranters to name but a few from Bromsgrove and Belbroughton.
Cheers
Lesley

Lesley:
Sorry I can’t help you with your placename queries at this stage--see my latest post to Martin. Could Mauncies Hall be Monsieur’s Hall in Fockbury? This was known as Mountseir Hall until around 1815. The name could well have been corrupted orally to "Mauncies"?

Keith

[Martin Stephens]

I'm sure that I read somewhere that Broad Street was nicknamed "The Common" and I think that the Common in census returns refers to a road and not an open area of land. I may have read it in the Bygone Bromsgrove history book which was published to accompany the Bygone Bromsgrove Picture Book (?).

Looking through the 1881 census returns, Cuckhold's Corner (transcribed by the LDS as 'Cookholds Corner'!) appears right after the entry for the Duke of York public house. In my opinion this would place it in the centre of Sidemoor on the junction between Broad Street and York Road. In the 1886 OS map there is a small cluster of houses here.

I think that the Sidemoor Allotments refers to the area west of Broad Street and north of Crabtree Lane. The census returns generally go along the Common (Broad Street?), through the Allotments and along Crabtree Lane. This route is not interrupted by references to Providence Square, Holly Lane or Churchfields that lie to the East of Broad Street.

Finally, a question. What is 'Back Lane' ? My mother thinks that it was Church Road or Church Lane but is not sure.

Cheers

Martin

[Keith Houghton]

Sorry Martin, but I cannot make any helpful comments on your question regarding the location of "Back Lane" at this stage. In the 1940's and 50's this name was commonly used to refer to the top end of Santridge Lane, running down from Bewell Head, presumably because it ran in parallel to Stourbridge Road.
Good luck in your searches,
Keith

[SCRITTI]

Many thanks to Keith and Martin for the really useful info they have both given me and yes I do think Mauncies Hall was Monsieurs Hall, as I'd read something about it somewhere ages ago and it jogged my memory! I didn't know it was Fockbury though!
Thanks again
Lesley

[Yegvard]

Hi Lesley,

Many of the names are already being thoroughly researched. I have only very very distant connections, but my HANDS do meet up with the LAUGHERS. :) There is also a oral tale of a HANDS/TROTH connection, but as yet been unable to prove it.
Why not come along to the next Bromsgrove branch meeting of BMSGH on the 12th April at 7.45pm at the Methodist Centre on Stratford Road.

Mike

[SCRITTI]

Hi Mke,
Thanks for the invite - would love to come - is that OK as I'm not a member?

Lesley|cheers|

[Yegvard]

Lesley

Make another trip on Saturday the 9th April. To the Photo event I've just posted on this board.

If you have any Photos of around 100 years ago of Bromsgrovians, bring them along and add to the knowledge. I know Nailtown would be pleased to see them.

Mike

[SCRITTI]

Hi Mike,
I was planning to come to that anyway - I haven't got much in the way of very old photo's but I'll see what my dad's got. I have got a nice one of my gggrandfather Albert Peplow from what I reckon must be about 1910 - I think I'd probably recognise any other photos of him as my dad looks just like him.
See you there!
Lesley

[Keith Houghton]

Martin

While looking for something entirely different in my old mate Bill Kings' book on Bromsgrove nailmakers, “Glory Gone”, I have just come across a reference (p 76) which makes it quite clear that “The Common” was in fact another name for Broad Street.

Cheers

[Keith Houghton]

My contacts in Bromsgrove have now provided the following information, which I hope is useful:

The Pleck - a piece of ground. This particular one was located at the bottom of Broad Street.
The Common - in Sidemoor - was almost the whole of the Broad Street before it got that name.
Putcheon Inn - was on the Stourbridge Road between Victoria Road and All Saints Road. The name probably comes from the word 'puncheon' which was a liquid measure which varied from 72 (beer) to 120 (whisky) gallons.
Rotten Row - this was at the bottom of Stourbridge Road (Parkside), so called because of the stench from the hide tanning in that area.
Cuckolds Corner - according to Bill Kings most villages or small towns had one. Bill only knows of one, in Market Place near the brook, where there was also a ducking stool used to punish ladies who had made cuckolds of their husbands (!).
Wm. G. Leadbetter "The Story of Bromsgrove"(1946) states that there is a Cuckolds Corner at Marlbrook,a part of Woodrow Farm, and a ducking stool, but if so the pool has long since disappeared.

[Keith Houghton]

A map showing the location of the Putcheon Inn (1840) is reproduced in "Bromsgrove Now & Then" by Alan and Sheila Richards, p.62.

[Martin Stephens]

A map showing the location of the Putcheon Inn (1840) is reproduced in "Bromsgrove Now & Then" by Alan and Sheila Richards, p.62.

Does anyone know where I can find a copy of this? It doesn't seem to be in print at the moment.

[Martin Stephens]

Martin

While looking for something entirely different in my old mate Bill Kings' book on Bromsgrove nailmakers, “Glory Gone”, I have just come across a reference (p 76) which makes it quite clear that “The Common” was in fact another name for Broad Street.

Cheers

I knew I had read that somewhere, but when I searched through the book I couldn't find it. Thanks Keith!

[Martin Stephens]

Combining Keith's generous help, the census returns and information from other Bromsgrove residents I think that we can summarise the census locations for Sidemoor as follows (using modern street names as a reference):-

The Pleck -- a square of cottages located immediately south of Crabtree Lane opposite the end of Broad Street.

The Common -- Broad Street.

The Allotments or Sidemoor Allotments -- The area west of Broad Street, roughly equivalent to Melbourne Road.

Cuckhold's Corner (aka Cookholds Corner and Cuckoo's Corner) -- Holly Road from it's junction with Holly Grove to where it ends at the junction with the Flats and Providence Road.

Back Lane -- north end of Santridge Road.

The Putcheon -- the stretch of Stourbridge Road north of the crossroads with All Saints Road and Santridge Road, probably running as far as the junction with Bewell Head.

Any further comments or information is always welcome.

My thanks to Keith and the others who have contributed.

[Keith Houghton]

Martin
re the Putcheon Inn. I imagine that we cannot scan items onto this website, but if you let me have your email address offline I will email my copy of the map to you. (I only have the map, not the entire book!)
Keith

[annonehouse]

Message for SCRITTI,
I realise you may not read this but a member called Scritti said that he/she was researching the Troths and Davenports from Sidemoor in Bromsgrove. It was quite some time ago im afraid. If however, you are still out there I would love to talk to you more as I'm researching both the Davenports and Troths - Nailers (grandparents) and would love some help.
If anyone else has any info on the Troths of Sidemoor or Davenports of Aston/Edgebaston/Bromsgrove I'd love to hear from you too!
Thanks ever so much
Ann

[briancave]

Martin, part of my ancesters also lived and were recorded over the same time, my gmother on my fathers side was Sarah Ann Lammas she lived at The Pleck Sidemoor Bromsgrove and her father and his father was named JABEZ Lammas, so are we related? brian

[Yegvard]

Hi Folks

I have a Sarah Jane TROTH who married Charles HANDS, around 1880s. This is a very distant relationship to me.

Mike

[briancave]

I'm looking for and tracing ancestors, by the name of LAMMAS they lived on the Pleck, a story was told to me that one of my kin, running from the police run into a post box and killed himself? So I'm ooking to find is this story true, any one know of this? brian

[Martin Stephens]

Martin, part of my ancesters also lived and were recorded over the same time, my gmother on my fathers side was Sarah Ann Lammas she lived at The Pleck Sidemoor Bromsgrove and her father and his father was named JABEZ Lammas, so are we related? brian

Yes we are related (probably). Sarah Ann Lammas was actually Sarah Ann Ballard. Her father was Jabez Ballard aka Jabez Lammas whose father was in turn Jabez Lammas. Jabez Lammas's father was Thomas Lammas who was my GGGG Grandfather.

Jabez Ballard b 1867 was the illegitimate son of Sarah Ann Ballard and presumably Jabez Lammas who married in 1868. Jabez Ballard was named in the census returns as Jabez Lammas while he was living with his parents until after he married Eliza Bedford in 1890. After that he used the name Jabez Ballard in the 1901 census.

I have a lot of information about the Lammas family which I am happy to share so please get in touch if the information above matches your 2 Jabez.

Regards,

Martin

[briancave]

Martin, thanks for your reply, yes I would like any information you have about Lammas, the only record I have is from census and copies of my grans marriage and death cert:s My email add; is :- cbriancave (at) aol.com
I've been doing my tree for years my dads side, name Cave and got back to this guy.
Guiomar at, http://fabpedigree.com/s064/f515376.htm it does help if you have a family history society, I have also had my dna looked at and found some very close cousins about 30 and most have Cave as surname

[Phil Richards]

Martin, if you are still looking for it, I have a recent photograph of the building.

MS Virtual Earth shows it at http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=52.338863~-2.068217&style=a&lvl=19&tilt=-85.771571471935&dir=0&alt=164.217697088607&cam=52.338845~-2.068217&scene=-1&encType=1

I hope that helps,
Phil

[Martin Stephens]

Thanks for the photograph. The area behind the shop there must have been the Pleck where my Lammas ancestors lived for 200 years!

Regards,

Martin

[dryad]

Hi....you obviously have great local knowledge I wonder if you could help me...

could you tell me if any buildings, possibly the old Workhouse in Birmingham Rd,was used as a military hospital during WW1? The Worc's regiment say that soldiers were treated in Bromsgrove but I can't find out where. I've tried Worcester Records Office and Bromsgrove museum and Library and national Archives but so far no one has given me an answer...thanks JP

[LittleAllie]

Hello everyone, I'm rather new to this so I apologise in advance if this has already been answered many times and I just can't see where.

I am replying to JP's query about the hospital: this was the old Bromsgrove General, but not the old workhouse part on Birmingham Road, the single story building that was accessed off All Saints Road and has long gone (now under a housing estate...what else). I was born there, and my mum worked in that building as a nurse for many years (although long after the wars) and recalls using sphymos kept in boxes with "U.S. Army" printed on them. She is fairly certain that that building was built for the army and converted to NHS later on.
Hope that helps...actually, this thread has helped me out too: I live in one of the old nail-makers cottages in Holly Road and have, somewhat half-heartedly, I must admit, been looking into its past alongside the family tree stuff. I'd wondered why I couldn't find reference to Holly Road before about 1901 (I think) census...I'll try 'Holly Lane' next time! Thanks for the hint. Allie.

[LittleSpark]

Hi Allie,
Welcome to the forum - I'm quite new myself but have found people to be friendly and helpful.
As you live in Sidemoor can you help me? I've been researching the name Troth for a cousin of mine and they all appear to come from the Sidemoor/Catshill area.
On 1911 census the 'postal address' for Dorcas Troth (widow of Enoch) is given as Brirestone(? hard to read), Nr Bromsgrove. Would this be another part of Catshill as Dorcas and Enoch lived there.
Other names I'm researching are Smallwood (Dorcas' maiden name), Lammas, Halfpenny and Gossage.
Any information you can give would be appreciated.

[SCRITTI]

Hello,
I think your Brirestone is probably Brimstone Lane, Dodford near Bromsgrove.
Also -I'm more than likely related to you - I have your all of the surnames you mention in my tree (focusing very heavily on the Gossages and Troths as these are great and gggrandparents surnames) I have a massive tree of Bromsgrove and Belbroughton families who all seem to be rather intertwined - its complicated......
Get in touch if you want any info!
Lesley

[LittleSpark]

Hi Lesley.
I've found the Troths very complicated as you say - surname has been transcribed wrongly on quite a few census and caused me many a headache in trying to track them down.
I'll look up some queries I have and will get in touch with you if you don't mind helping me out.
I think you may be right about it being Brimstone and not Briretone.
Speak to you soon. Thanx a lot.

[LittleSpark]

Hello,
I think your Brirestone is probably Brimstone Lane, Dodford near Bromsgrove.
Also -I'm more than likely related to you - I have your all of the surnames you mention in my tree (focusing very heavily on the Gossages and Troths as these are great and gggrandparents surnames) I have a massive tree of Bromsgrove and Belbroughton families who all seem to be rather intertwined - its complicated......
Get in touch if you want any info!
Lesley

Hi Lesley,
I posted a thread for information on Enoch Troth a couple of weeks ago so you may have read it.

Here we go on the Troths:-
My paternal grandfather was Joseph Parkes from Old Hill, Rowley Regis - son of Israel Parkes and Sarah Russon.
His sister, Doris Evelyn Parkes married Walter George Troth (b1910).
Walter George was the son of Walter Troth (1885) and Edith Priddey.
Walter was the son of Enoch Troth (1855) and Dorcas Smallwood.
Enoch was the son of Richard Troth (1821) and Elizabeth Crawford.
Richard was the son of Samuel Troth (1794) and Ann Manning.

Elizabeth, daughter of Samuel & Ann married James Halfpenny 1850.

Samuel (1842) son of Richard & Elizabeth, married Louisa Lammas 1860.
Elijah (1854) son of Richard & Elizabeth, married Myra Lammas 1871.
I believe Louisa and Myra were the daughters of Thomas and Sophia Lammas - sisters to Jabez Lammas (mentioned in earlier Bromsgrove threads
which prompted me to join the forum).

As I cannot get to Worcester, I have obtained most of my information from Family Search (I.G.I.) - I know from experience mistakes occur on this site so I check any information against the census. Anything I can't tie up is left off the Family Tree and noted in my files.

Do any of these names match up with yours?

[SCRITTI]

Hello again!

These Troths will be the death of me but here goes:

From your last post I'd agree about Samuel and Elijah's marriages to the Lammas Girls and their parents.
I also agree that Richard and Elizabeth had Enoch but then it gets very confusing.

There are 3 Enoch/Enocks around born c 1856/57/58 and they are giving me a headache! |shakehead

One is Enoch Troth (abt 1856) possibly Archer possibly another surname entirely, son of Elizabeth Troth (dau of William 1801 and Elizabeth) and possibly William Archer.
He appears in 1861 with William Archer and Elizabeth with his brother Edward (all known as Archer). I think there is a second entry for Enoch and Edward( known as Troth) with grandfather William Troth and cousin Emma (daughter of Mary Ann Troth)

Then there is Enoch abt 1857 son of Richard and Elizabeth who I can't find on the 1861 or 1871 censuses abut then reappears with wife Dorcas on the 1881 , dies in 1888 and Dorcas appears as a widow in 1891.

The next Enoch abt 1858 is the son of Richard and Jane, Richard being the son of the William 1801 and Elizabeth. This Enock lives in Lickey and marries Priscilla Banner in Mar 1883 and is still around in the 1901 census. He is the most straightforward of the lot of them!

Going backwards you say Richard was the son of Samuel 1794 and Ann Manning - have you got any proof of this?

I thought Richard was the son of Samuel 1797 and Ann (I haven't got a surname or a marriage) as the ages on some of the census's and the death record are a better match and Samuel 1794 goes off to Grantham and marries Ann Eaves and appears in the 1841 and 1851 censuses in Grantham with a 1794 year of birth in 1851.

As far as I can make out so far these two Samuels are 1st cousins sharing Joseph and Sarah as grandparents.

I'll be off to Worcester in the next couple of weeks to do some more digging so if you have any specific Troth queries you'd like looked up I'll be glad to help.

I'm descended from Charles Troth (Samuel 1797's brother) and Mary Smith, they are my gggg grandparents twice over.

That's all for now as the Troths are giving me brain ache!
|banghead|
Lesley

[Debo]

Dear lesley i am researching the crawfords of bromsgrove in particular kate whose mom was emma do you have any info on them. am waiting for kates birth cert as her dad might have been a halfpenny. thanks
Hello,
I think your Brirestone is probably Brimstone Lane, Dodford near Bromsgrove.
Also -I'm more than likely related to you - I have your all of the surnames you mention in my tree (focusing very heavily on the Gossages and Troths as these are great and gggrandparents surnames) I have a massive tree of Bromsgrove and Belbroughton families who all seem to be rather intertwined - its complicated......
Get in touch if you want any info!
Lesley

[roger201180]

if you stand in broad street and look at the junction it was directley in front of you it is no longer there it is now just a house

[roger201180]

ive just read this post and i used to go to school with ..... who lived in broad street just alittle up the road from pleck stores that is going back from 21 yrs ago so you might be on the right track

[Gem Gallagher]

Hi Lesley,
i'm aware this is a very old thread but i have just discovered it! Are you still researching the Waldrons? i know there are a few families of Waldrons (Not all related) but my nan was a Waldron. From Romsley,5 girls and a boy in that generation