SNELLINGS SHROPSHIRE

[Debbie Bozkurt]

Help Please |help|

By hook or by crock I have managed to find out the following information and a helpful hampshire website.

John and Elizabeth Snelling (4 x GGP) lived in Odiham, Hampshire whereby they had a number of children, George, Louisa, Eliza and Thomas between 1818 and 1828. John died in 1832 aged 46, Odiham. His wife remarries and her name is Elizabeth Ful(l)brook. The lucky thing is she survived into her 90s and I managed to find out she was born in Shropshire not Hampshire and that on the 1871 census in Odiham it states Church Miene or Church Miele Shropshire - Which I can't find on a modern map :confused:

There was no marriage in Odiham either (there are transcribed records), as luck again would have it there is a John Snelling (jnr) born in 1811, living in Odiham (no other Snelling family about) and born in Shropshire - doesn't appear to know where though!

I've tried IGI, various parish sites but can't seem to find much on Shropshire, the Shropshire FHS has a few bits I might have to purchase the Marriage Index but don't want to spend out money if they didn't marry there.

Does anyone have any ideas, know of this family of Snellings, or where Church Miene may have been. Any help would really be appreciated. |banghead|

Thanks Debs

[Waitabit]

Help Please |help|


Does anyone have any ideas, know of this family of Snellings, or where Church Miene may have been. Any help would really be appreciated. |banghead|

Thanks Debs

Not much to offer, Debs, but on "Shropshire Old Maps" are lots of maps which may offer where ''Church Miene' may have been.Many are too small to see but something may come up for you.

Wendy

[birdlip]

Hi Debs,

on IGI there's this;

John Snelling bap 20 Feb 1814 St Leonard Broseley Shropshire, parents John Snelling and Elizabeth

Bearing in mind this is a baptism date, not a birth date; could this be the John Snelling b abt 1811 Shropshire, who turns up in Odiham?

regards birdlip

[janbooth]

Debs,

There is an extracted baptism on the IGI of a John SNELLING on 20 February 1814 at Broseley, Shropshire, father John mother Elizabeth. He appears to be the only SNELLING baptised there according to the IGI and the date is not too far out for the John SNELLING you found.

Looking on the 1851 census record for Elizabeth FULLBROOK, her place of birth in that census definitely begins with a G but again for the life of me I can't work out what it says. It might be worthwhile putting up a specific request for people with knowledge of Shropshire to see if they can work out what it actually is. The reference is HO107/1680, folio 186, page 28. There is a Garmston not too far from Broseley but I am not convinced!!

Janet

[birdlip]

Could it be Church Preen? I know how bad the handwriting can be sometimes.

If you think that's a possibility, then it gets interesting, because Church Preen is about 5 miles from Broseley.

[birdlip]

Hello again.... this one is bugging me!...I did a search on familyhistoryonline for John Snellings marriage, and came up with this from the West Middlesex marriage Index;

John Snelling m Elizabeth Owens 23 Sept 1811 Heston

I wouldn't have considered West Middlesex as a possibility, except I'd looked on the map for Odiham and found it on the London side of Basingstoke. Heston is quite near the present day Heathrow.

Looking at IGI, Owens seems to be a Shropshire/ Welsh border country name.....

[Debbie Bozkurt]

Hello again.... this one is bugging me!...I did a search on familyhistoryonline for John Snellings marriage, and came up with this from the West Middlesex marriage Index;

John Snelling m Elizabeth Owens 23 Sept 1811 Heston

I wouldn't have considered West Middlesex as a possibility, except I'd looked on the map for Odiham and found it on the London side of Basingstoke. Heston is quite near the present day Heathrow.

Looking at IGI, Owens seems to be a Shropshire/ Welsh border country name.....

Thanks folks I must of been stupid I did look up John snellings on the igi I must have stuck either 1714 or 1914. I also found that marriage but why would someone who came from Shropshire marry in Heston, then go back to have her first child in the days of very little transport, then live in Odiham. I have found cases of people christening their children in their own church in the more later parts of the 19th century but normally only a few to 50 miles apart at the most. John does quote shropshire on more than one census as being his place of birth.

I just done a search of John Snellings and there is none in Shropshire, did try Elizabeth Owens and there is quite a few none that resemble that place name. I looked 5 years either side of 1785, did double check the date this time.

Not sure where to go next other than try the name of place of birth, did wonder Church Preen myself as I doubt if they could read or write. Now stuck again after seeing a chink of light at the end of the tunnel |banghead|

Debs

[birdlip]

Good morning Debbie.

I wouldn't dismiss that marriage myself, perhaps keep a record of it just in case. I take your point about the transport difficulties, but it was very common for young women to go home for the birth of their first child, even if it was half way across the country. As to the marriage itself, perhaps they moved to London first from Shropshire, didn't like it and moved 15 or so miles out to Odiham. Do you know John Snelling's occupation?

regards birdlip

[Waitabit]

Hi Deb, My Husbands Family wandered between Allbrighton, Pattingham & Acton Round having children in Shropshire & Staffordshire & for theFather of this lot, the only marriage we can find that fits, occurred in Oxford.

Shepherds & Ag.Labs would have walked a few miles for work back then. Fit little lot!!

Wendy

[LittleMissP]

I wouldn't discount wandering ancestors either, some of mine did so from Berkshire (most frustrating!) to the 1851 census in Warwickshire and then returned (I have birth certs to prove it), and also have found couples marrying in London when they both were born, lived and had children in Hampshire. I've read quite a few historical books on the London area in particular and it was a draw for all sorts of reasons, however temporarily, and economics play a large part in many migrations as people move with others for work or other reasons, but then decide to 'settle down' elsewhere (often nearer home). From what I've read (and I can be corrected here!) transport wasn't so difficult if you were prepared to do a fair share of walking plus take the relatively 'regular' coaches that were available.

[birdlip]

Hi again Debbie,

I've just re read all of this, and realised that nowhere do you say that John Snelling Senior was b in Shropshire, I've just been assuming that. You don't know where he was born.. could have been anywhere, right? Its just Elizabeth as far as we know, and she was born in Shropshire, Church Miene or somewhere that starts with a G.

[Debbie Bozkurt]

Hi again Debbie,

I've just re read all of this, and realised that nowhere do you say that John Snelling Senior was b in Shropshire, I've just been assuming that. You don't know where he was born.. could have been anywhere, right? Its just Elizabeth as far as we know, and she was born in Shropshire, Church Miene or somewhere that starts with a G.

Yes you are totally correct have no idea where he came from as he died before the 1841 census. Oh the frustrations of the no father on a marriage! I looked at the Heston marriage and it did not have any witnessess recorded so I would need to go to a parish record and see if there is any clues there. I have sent off for so many parish micro filche, cds, queries with various record offices I find myself muddling all the branches and places up, I guess I am not the only one who does that!!!|laugh1|

There are 25 John Snellings on the IGI between 1781 and 1791, according to death he was born in 1786, from Dorset to Suffolk, I may have a bash at trying to trace them and seeing how many I can't match up! He was also a labourer so not much help there.

Thanks for all your help

Debs

[birdlip]

Hi Debbie,

I think this is the strongest possibility;

John Young Snelling bap 7 Oct 1786 Farnham, Surrey. Mother Eliza Snelling.

Odiham is right on the border of Hants, and Farnham is only about 4 or 5 miles away. Just down the road.

regards birdlip

[Debbie Bozkurt]

Hi Debbie,

I think this is the strongest possibility;

John Young Snelling bap 7 Oct 1786 Farnham, Surrey. Mother Eliza Snelling.

Odiham is right on the border of Hants, and Farnham is only about 4 or 5 miles away. Just down the road.

regards birdlip

According to my other halfs cd maps (so handy) its 6.45 miles and would take about 2 and 1/2 hrs to walk. You may have hit the nail on the head. What's the betting his father was Mr Young! There were loads in Farnham also loads of Snellings. It was only 25 miles from Heston so not too stupid distance, I think I will try and get the witnesses for that marriage just in case there was a family witnesses.

Thanks again :), its time I was in bed, what time is it in Australia? Where in England do your family originate, you have a lot of great knowledge.

Debs

[birdlip]

Five past nine in the morning here Debbie. I was born in the UK, so I know my way around a bit.

regards birdlip

[Debbie Bozkurt]

Hello again.... this one is bugging me!...I did a search on familyhistoryonline for John Snellings marriage, and came up with this from the West Middlesex marriage Index;

John Snelling m Elizabeth Owens 23 Sept 1811 Heston

I wouldn't have considered West Middlesex as a possibility, except I'd looked on the map for Odiham and found it on the London side of Basingstoke. Heston is quite near the present day Heathrow.

Looking at IGI, Owens seems to be a Shropshire/ Welsh border country name.....

Just received Louisa Snellings marriage John Snr and Elizabeths daughters marriage, they married in London All Hallows 1841, although they did go back to Odiham for a while, but the interesting thing was one of the witnessess was a David Owen, note the marriage of a John Snellings to Eliabeth Owens. The certificate was typed out, the date was wrong down the bottom so not worried about a S. Funny thing is that they have both quoted their fathers as NOT deceased although they both died in the 1820s. John Snelling was quoted as a Waterman, I might have a look around a sight I know that has information about Waterman.

Any thoughts

Debs

[Debbie Bozkurt]

I would like to share my stupidity with those who have helped. As mentioned in last post I received my 3 Great Grandmothers marriage certificate today in which she quotes John Snelling her father (the mystery man) as a waterman. Checked her birth again and christened in Odiham, lived just above in North Warnborough right next to the Basingstoke Canal!!! Where is Heston, where the marriage found for me took place, right next to the Grand Canal!!! Waterman, Canals surely it is now a more logical assumption that it is the same John Snellings.

I guess without knowing the fathers occupation I would not have tied the two place together so not so stupid perhaps after all|biggrin|

What do others think and I don't mean whether I am stupid or not!|jumphappy

Thanks

Debs

PS off to look for canals in Shropshire!

[birdlip]

Aha.... so David Owen(s) was probably a relative, witnesses usually were. Perhaps an uncle ?
It gives much more weight to the Elizabeth Owens marriage, doesn't it? I'd be taking a good look at it, myself.

I've come across quite a few marriage certs where I know the father was deceased, but it doesn't say so on the form. Some do, some don't. It seems to have been up to the registrar.

regards birdlip

[birdlip]

Oh well done Debbie!! I was just thinking hmmm.....but if he was a waterman, what was he doing in Odiham?

[Debbie Bozkurt]

Oh well done Debbie!! I was just thinking hmmm.....but if he was a waterman, what was he doing in Odiham?

Just looked at Broseley where was it you that found John Jnr Snellings birth, fronts onto the navigational part of the Severn River. I suspect John Snr may have been on the barges not sure if you could take your family on these or was just trying to take his wife home! Need now to find the strange place of birth of Eliazbeth nee Owens and see if there is a connection with the David Owen that was her witness. Also need to see if there are any records of waterman on the canals in the early 1820s etc.

Getting there! Thanks so much for your inspiration |hug|

Debs

[birdlip]

I'm enjoying this! ...but I have to go to bed, it's midnight...zzzz.....I'll check in tomrrow morning and see how you've got on. cheers birdlip

[janbooth]

Debs,

There is a baptism on the IGI of an Elizabeth OWEN 29 May 1780 at Edgmond, Shropshire, parents John & Mary OWEN. According to Genuki, the village is situated near the Union Canal. There is also a somewhat earlier baptism of a David OWEN to a John & Mary on 21 May 1733 - probably too early but perhaps it is a family name??

Janet

[Debbie Bozkurt]

Thanks Janet I did wonder about this christening but where did Elizabeth get those names from on the 1851 and 1871 census. I tried posting the query to another site specifically in the Shropshire Cat. and some one came back with a Hall in Essex.

I might try the Shropshire FHS or Records Office, so of the FHS you have to be a member and at this rate I could be a member of all FHS in the Country. :D

Debs