Would it have happened ?

[deenor]

Is it a possibility that mothers of illegitamate children gave their child the fathers surname even though they weren't married.
(1877)

[Jan1954]

Very possible.

However, in my family (in which there seems to be a fair old number of illegitimate children :eek:) the father's surname is often a middle name for the child eg:

John WEBB Mascall - father John WEBB, mother Sarah MASCALL
Mary Ann DEAN Cross - father William DEAN, mother Sarah CROSS
Ann MASCALL Cowling - father John Webb MASCALL, mother Lydia COWLING

Is your source the census or a birth certificate?

Ann Mascall Cowling (above) kept changing her surname from census to census (and led me a right merry dance trying to find her!) Although her birth was registered as Cowling, she was known as Mascall after her parents finally married.

[deenor]

The person in question is my grt grandfather Ernest James Jones. I haven't been able to
obtain a birth cert for him , I don't have a mother's name either ! The reason I ask this question is because I found an Ernest Jones living with grandparents but their surname was "Hoare" Ernest's marriage cert does have a Charles Jones as father, but I believe this to be fiction.
Denise

[Jan1954]

Okay... if you do not have Ernest's mother's name, how do you know that she and Ernest's father did not marry? Could she have had the maiden name of Hoare? That would fit with this Ernest living with grandparents by that name.

Have you found Ernest in any other censuses? If so, what was his age in each and where was he recorded as having been born?

Sorry - more questions... :o

[deenor]

well. ..from the info I have from the elders is that Ernest was allegedly the illegitimate son of a clergyman , quite possibly born Wales, At some stage he went to live in Southwalk/Bermondsey (I have school certificates 1886-1890 ) The only census I have found him is the 1901 he is recorded as being born in Camberwell/surrey
denise.

[Jan1954]

Aha!
well. ..from the info I have from the elders is
Always substantiate what you have been told. Memories, family stories and rumours can change with the telling and possibly become muddled with someone else's details.

Start with what you know to be fact.

What age does it give on Ernest's marriage certificate? What is the date? Does it say that Charles Jones is deceased? What is his occupation?

The more clues we have, the more we will be able to help you search for him. :)

[deenor]

Ernest's marriage was June 3rd 1900, he was 23 years old, residence is the same as wife's. Charles Jones (father) is deceased and occupation was Leather Dresser, which is
the same occupation as Ernest's, there are no clues with witness names.
The 1901 census has the same age of 23 years, place of birth London/Camberwell.
His ww1 army service record has 1877 for DOB.
He attended Neckinger Rd school Bermondsey from 1886-1890. In the 1901 census his
address was Guiness buildings Bermondsey (near the leather mills ).
My father once mentioned that Ernest was born in Swansea, illigitimate son of a clergyman , which I agree may not be the case, but I came across an entry for Ernest
and his wife Elizabeth on familysearch which also states wales as birth place,
this was submitted after 1991 by a member of the LDS church ( no info about submitter)
One child was also listed , which is odd because she was born in the middle of other siblings, she died age fourteen so there's no connetion with the submitter.
The dates for events were way out as well.
Lastly I am not aware of Ernest having any siblings.
Denise