STONEHOUSE STUART

[ssIII]

Any information on the birth and parentage of Stonehouse Stuart, born SUNDERLAND, Durham, 1757 would be very much appreciated as he is my brick wall.
Many thanks
ssIII

edit - this post moved to this part of the forum
1851 census
Stonehouse Stuart, lodger, widower, 94, retired Trinity Pilot, born Northumberland, Sunderland.
so believe he may have been born North Sunderland.

[bumblebee]

Are you sure he was born in Sunderland.

He is probably the one who was buried in Harwich, Essex, St Nicholas, on 7th December 1853,

I see on the 1851 he gives his place of birth as Sunderland but on the 1841 I am sure it says 'yes' for born in County on the census for Essex.

HO107; Piece 344; Book: 19; Civil Parish: St Nicholas; Enumeration District: 2; Folio: 28; Page: 15;

I realise you have most likely seen this but do you have anything else to back up the 'Sunderland' birthplace. (He was very elderly when that census was taken in 1851).

Bumblebee

[ssIII]

Yes, I had noticed the discrepancy between the Sunderland birth and the "born in same county" statement and I tend to agree that Sunderland may be a red herring. Do you by any chance have access to the 1851 Census returns? I'm wondering where he is at this time..only a couple of years before his death.

thanks for any help on this.
ss

[ChristineR]

I'm wondering where he is at this time..only a couple of years before his death

1851
HO107; Piece: 1780; Folio: 79; Page: 20
St Austins st, Harwich, Essex
Stonehouse Stuart, lodger, widower, 94, retired Trinity Pilot, born Northumberland, Sunderland.
(He is probably your Captain Stuart you mention in another post)

Stonehouse had been in St Nicholas, Harwich since at least 1790. Some time ago when I had access to the parish registers I looked up the baptisms of his children. I didn't find his marriage to Elizabeth, but it could have been in Dovercourt or on the earlier St Nicholas film which I had already viewed before his name came up.

There is really no concrete reason for believing that his birth place is wrong in the absence of other evidence. It is a bit easier to mess up a yes/no answer than to put a specific place.
:)

[ChristineR]

Northumberland, Sunderland.

This looks to be like it should be North Sunderland in Northumberland, not the Sunderland in Durham.
:)

[ssIII]

What a nightmare! Does that mean that I need to shift my look-up requests from Co. Durham to Northumberland? I'll have a go but don't know how much further that'll get me.

Am going to County Records Office in Essex shortly so might find something of value on his death certificate.

[ChristineR]

I'll move it for you. :)

[ChristineR]

Have you looked into seaman's records at all? it might be too early, I don't know anything about them.

[Lesley Robertson]

What a nightmare! Does that mean that I need to shift my look-up requests from Co. Durham to Northumberland? I'll have a go but don't know how much further that'll get me.

Am going to County Records Office in Essex shortly so might find something of value on his death certificate.

Just to throw a little more mud in the water, you may have to go further north eventually (maybe another generation or so). Stenhouse is a moderately common scottish family name, and there were quite a few in the Borders, where it was common to use maternal and grandparental surnames as forename and middle names.....
A lot of people seem to have ambled back and forth over the Border!

Thought that would cheer you up....
;)

Lesley

[benny1982]

Hi

I have Stuart/Stewart ancestors from Selkirk in Scotland. John Stewart moved from there to Durham in about 1760. His childrens baptisms 1798-1803 by his second wife say that he was from Scotland originally.

It is possible that Stonehouse Stuarts family came from Scotland. Many Scots were in Durham in the 1750s and 1760s. Something to do with clearences.

I think there was a family of Stuart from Selkirk according to a Scottish tartans and families map.

I have heard many things about Scottish and Essex connections. I have found several Scottish sounding surnames in my Essex ancestors like Guthrie, Kellock etc.

Ben

[ssIII]

Yes, it's such a mystery; born 1757 Sunderland Co. Durham OR North Sunderland, Northumberland? Married a Rotherhithe girl Elizabeth Randfield in London and first and successive children all born in Harwich! Sea-faring man down as a Pilot in censuses.

[ChristineR]

Yes, it's such a mystery; born 1757 Sunderland Co. Durham OR North Sunderland, Northumberland? Married a Rotherhithe girl Elizabeth Randfield in London and first and successive children all born in Harwich! Sea-faring man down as a Pilot in censuses.

But does any documentation you have say that he was born in Sunderland, Durham?

The 1851 census quite clearly says Northumberland, Sunderland.

The Randfield name is/ was quite common in Harwich. When looking for the name Randall I often noticed it in the registers.

[Lesley Robertson]

Hi

I have Stuart/Stewart ancestors from Selkirk in Scotland. John Stewart moved from there to Durham in about 1760. His childrens baptisms 1798-1803 by his second wife say that he was from Scotland originally.

It is possible that Stonehouse Stuarts family came from Scotland. Many Scots were in Durham in the 1750s and 1760s. Something to do with clearences.

I think there was a family of Stuart from Selkirk according to a Scottish tartans and families map.

I have heard many things about Scottish and Essex connections. I have found several Scottish sounding surnames in my Essex ancestors like Guthrie, Kellock etc.

Ben


Careful what you believe from those tartan maps/websites. A lot of them only exist to sell their products. Scots moved around, just like everyone else - they were more concentrated in some areas, but Murphy's Law of Genealogy says that the lot being sought were always the rebels who moved away.:D
You'll find Stuart/Stewarts all over the place - and remember that the Borderers tend to see themselves as Borderers first and scots/english second. There's families in my (BEW) OPS who seem to have alternated scots and english baptisms for their kids!

Lesley

[ChristineR]

But does any documentation you have say that he was born in Sunderland, Durham?

The 1851 census quite clearly says Northumberland, Sunderland.

The Randfield name is/ was quite common in Harwich. When looking for the name Randall I often noticed it in the registers.

I have had a PM - apparently it says he is from Sunderland, Durham on the marriage record, the bride being 'of this parish' where the wedding took place.

Of course that only actually means that he lived there, does not mean that he was born there. But beginning to look like it, I should not have moved this thread after all. |blush|

[ssIII]

In response to your PM about the marriage record - are you able to disclose any information about that in relation to details about parentage? Also, I have not been able to find any record of the marriage - are there any indications about that?
cheers
ssIII

[ChristineR]

In response to your PM about the marriage record - are you able to disclose any information about that in relation to details about parentage? Also, I have not been able to find any record of the marriage - are there any indications about that?
cheers
ssIII

That was back in November 2008, the PM is no longer in my inbox and I do not recall who it was from or if it contained any dates. There would be no indications of parentage on a parish record of that time. I'm sorry that I cannot remember it, I must have presumed at the time that you would get the details by PM as well.

[ssIII]

"I think there was a family of Stuart from Selkirk according to a Scottish tartans and families map. "


I am intrigued by the existence of this map as it may provide further clues. Are you able to provide a link to this - I would be very grateful


ss

[benny1982]

"I think there was a family of Stuart from Selkirk according to a Scottish tartans and families map. "


I am intrigued by the existence of this map as it may provide further clues. Are you able to provide a link to this - I would be very grateful


ss

Hi

I cannot remember the name of the map off the top of my head. I saw it in a shop. But as Lesley said, dont always treat tartan maps as face value.

Ben

[ssIII]

Well, friends who have been so very kind on this; I have FINALLY found the marriage record after all this time and it does indeed say that Stonehouse is a "Single man of the parish of Sunderland in the palatinate of Durham".

He was C of E and born around 1757. The church was likely to be Holy Trinity
Sunderland - Does anyone have access to the records at Durham Records Office for HOLY TRINITY - SUNDERLAND - BAPTISMS - 1719-1797 ??

would be so very happy to find something on this !

ssiii|wave|

[Geoffers]

Try using the Durham Records Online web-site(free seach, pay-to-view full records)........though of course he may have been non-conformist in which case try TheGenealogist or BMDRegisters..........though of course the marriage record only shows that he was of Sunderland, Durham at the time of the wedding; he was not necessarily born there.

[ssIII]

Thanks for that; have been keeping an eye on Durham online but it's more a tease than anything else - can't keep track of what they have or haven't got. Will definitely have a look at your second suggestion - thegenealogist ;

the marriage took place in Suffolk and the record does wonders to confirm once and for all WHICH Sunderland he comes from, due to the fact that in one census is written "Northumberland, Sunderland" for his place of birth.

[ssIII]

Said on his marriage entry in 1787 to be from Sunderland, Durham, I have had no luck in 2 years in tracing his parentage. Stonehouse may be a middle name which he went by to avoid confusion with another family member with the same first name and this may be why we can't find a baptism.

Can anyone help?

ssIII

[pwholt]

Have you looked for records of Trinity House? I googled Trinity House + pilots and got history.ac site which gives details of what survives with references. As pilots were licenced by Trinity House, their records may have some helpful details for this query. Have a look and see what you think. pw

[ssIII]

Yes, I have been actively looking all this time. I have found him referred to in a book : "Captain Smith of the Leopard of Harwich hired a local branch pilot Stonehouse Stewart (spelling in book) at 6s a day". That was in 1809.

I also found him listed in the Trinity Pilots of London book at the Metropolitan Archives, begun in 1808. He is there in 1808 as one of only 6 pilots working out of Harwich.

But none of that helps with finding out his place of birth or his parents unfortunately !