Chance

[zane]

Emily Chance married James Jones in Wales in 1907. (My great grandparents on my maternal side). According to the Wedding Certificate she was about 25so born approx 1882 and James was aged 35, so approx born in 1872.

My mum seems to recall that Emily was born in Eardisley and according to the Wedding Cert her father Thomas was a gardener, deceased.

The only Emily I can find is born in 1878 and her father was also called Thomas but he was an ag labourer. Not sure if this would be the correct one as I cannot see any valid reason why Emily would lie about her age as she was obvioulsy over the age of 21 this is all the info I have, does any one have any ideas?

Thanks

Zane

[Geoffers]

Emily Chance married James Jones in Wales in 1907. (My great grandparents on my maternal side). According to the Wedding Certificate she was about 25so born approx 1882 and James was aged 35, so approx born in 1872. My mum seems to recall that Emily was born in Eardisley and according to the Wedding Cert her father Thomas was a gardener, deceased.

She may well have told her boyfriend and later husband that she was younger than she was - she may not have been well educated and only rogughly known her age.

The 1891 census seems to show two girls called Emily Chance whose dad was called Tho(ma)s.

RG12/2075 f15 p4
Eardisley, Herefordshire
Thomas, Frances and Emily (aged 13)

RG12/2341 f88 p6
Fernhill Heath, Worcestershire
Thos, Mary, Benj, George, Emily (aged 12), Sarah

[zane]

Hi Geoffers, sorry it has taken so long to reply I usually get an email saying someone has replied to my post, but I didn't this time, I must have pressed a wrong button somewhere!

The first one you suggested fits in with the one I have found for the 1881 census and the address was the same. Thanks!!

Ancestry has transcribed the 1891 census under the name of Chaney, which is why I couldn't find them, but upon looking at the actual census I think it is a definite Chance.

I have found a possible death for Thomas in 1895 which would fit in with the fact I can't find him in the 1901 census and I know he was deceased by 1907 I have found a 1901 census for a Francis Chance who was a widow, so again this would fit it, but she lives with her daughter Jane who I haven't yet come accross, although my mum thinks there was a sister Jane.

I have found an earlier census with a Jane Chance on with parents called Thomas and Frances, but she had brothers that I haven't come across before and one would have been born before the parents got married by at least 3 years, so back to the drawing board and more digging! :)

[IvorClucas]

Zane,

You probably know this already but the mother listed for Emily CHANCE born 27th Jan 1878 is Frances GRIFFITHS and it was registered in the Brilley Sub- Registration district of Kington District. Not a million miles from Eardisley.

Cheers


Ivor

[zane]

Thanks Ivor, you have just confirmed the fact, she was on my list as the most likely Frances, but I hadn't gotten round to ordering Emily's birth cert, so as you have confirmed it and given me the birth date, I may spend the money on Emily's father and mothers certs instead, thanks!!

[IvorClucas]

Zane

Thomas Chance and Frances Griffiths married at St Martins Hereford on 15/6/1865.

They also had

Alice dob 18/2/1872
Mary dob 14/9/1873
William dob 23/01/1876

All registered in Brilley.

Ivor

[zane]

Thanks again Ivor, I had approx years for the kids, but not exact dates so THANKS! , I have also possibly found a brother called Thomas born approx 1870, not sure if he died or not. I have ordered Emily, Frances and the Emily's father Thomas certs, I also wonder if they had other children that may have died because getting married in 1865 and not having the first child till 1870 seems a bit out of character for the times. Thanks for you help! :)

[IvorClucas]

Zane,

My index does not list any other births of kids or deaths that look likely - it covers Herefordshire only so maybe born elsewhere or not registered.

It seems likely that there would have been a son Thomas somewhere along the line.

Ivor

[zane]

Thanks for that Ivor will stop looking for any more children (for now) and start working further back. :)

[vic1]

I'm very intrested in your post. branches of my family have lived in Eardisley / brillley since 1635. I do not have any chances but I do have a jones branch - my great x 2b grandfather was a john jones from kinnersley. he had a brother who appears on the census as john also their father is James jones, I know my john is john as i have his wedding certificate but i would hazard a guess that the brother may have been James he would have been born in the early 1870s. and i have been told an uncle form that side has a medal in the south wales borderers museum. unfortunately with a name like jones i have not persued this side as i have loads of other branches. john was also a methodist lay preacher right up to his death. Do you have any info on your james jones . if they are brothers we may be aable to help each other spread our trees.

[zane]

Hi Vic1


I have not gotten very far with my Jones branch at all, James Jones was my great grandfather on my matarnal side, he married Emily Chance, all I know is he was born in Wales as yet no idea where, I have his death cert, he died in Coventry in 1960 aged 89. My mother says he had at least one brother , one called Jack, but he may have been named John after his father but just used the name Jack and Jack/John was married to Nellie, I have James Jones wedding cert but all it says is he was 35 on 21st Feb 1907 (their weddding day) and that he was a soldier in the South Wales Borderers and his father was John Jones who was a maker for castings. so I am completely at a loss as to where to go now as you know Jones is a hard name to narrow down!!!!!! If you have any further info.....................!

Zane

[vic1]

If his fathers is working in the metal industry as a caster. he can't be related to mine but it was worth a try with the name Jones and the area. my john married 3 times had 2 possibly 3 children with wives and one we think by his sister in law. none of his wives was any thing close to eleanor - emma died 1880 annie ( my relation) and jane his father was a tenenat farmer and my johnn worked on the railway then farmed by taking over his third wifes fathers farm.
any way as i say it was worth a try may be if we get father back with the jones's we might find a link. i'm saving them for my retiremant in 20 odd years time ( probably nearer 40 odd years time the wayt things are going at present)
many thanks vic

[zane]

Thought I would update and hopefully get still more help!

Thomas Chance born 1833, died 1895, (my gg. grandfather) I have death cert. 1841 census he lived with his parents Thomas and Mary, 1861 census he lived with his parents at The Fields Eardisley, 1865 he married Frances Griffiths, in the 1871 census he still lives in The Fields he has 3 children, 1864 (born before wedding) Henry Grolpthe Chance, Jane Caroline Chance 1866 and Frederick Thomas Chance 1870! In the 1881 census he lives in Hicks Hill Welson, with children Thomas 1870, (formerley Frederick thomas, I think) Alice 1872, Mary 1874, William 1876 and Emily 1878 (my g. grandmother), now my question is where is Henry? I can find no record of his birth, christening, death etc or anything, I have tried just looking for Henry, but found nothing, have looked on Ancestry, Freebmd , but found no-one to match, if he was illegitimate would he be registered?

On Frances death cert, her daughter Jane Townsend was with her, this ties in with the fact that I have her married to John Townsend and Frances lived with them in the 1901 census, so they are the right family, has anyone any ideas on where Henry might be?

Thanks

[IvorClucas]

Zane,

I have looked in my Herefordshire indices for the birth and death of a Henry Chance and Henry Griffiths of the right sort of dates but can find nothing helpful. Even though he was illegitimate his birth SHOULD have been registered. You give his second name as Grolpthe - have you seen this on the census records or just in transcript. If you have a copy of the census record itself take a close look at this name and see if there could be other interpretations of the hand writing - there is a chance (excuse the pun :)) that he could have been registered as Henry ?Grolpthe? on his birth certificate, if that was his father's name. I cannot find any occurances of Grolpthe in my index but if you find a different interpretation from a closer look at the census let me know and I will take another look,

Cheers

Ivor

[zane]

Hi Ivor

Am trying again to upload this census!

http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp76/zane_023/1871censusHenryChance.jpg

Had some help from Bo Peep, so hope this works, Henry is the third one down from the top, not sure how clear it will be!

Thanks Bo Peep!

Zane

[IvorClucas]

Zane,

Your copy of the census page was not very easy to read so I took a look on Ancestry. I think the middle name could Griffiths - what do you think?

Ivor

[zane]

Yes I am inclined to think it is Griffiths, not that it helps much as I have looked for all sorts of Henry, but nothing seems to match, including deaths between the census's. Thanks anyway Ivor :)

[IvorClucas]

Zane,

The more I look the more I can see Griffiths - it is amazing what transcribers sometimes make of handwriting. Being a transcriber myself I know how difficult it is and I am sure I have made similar interpretations.

However as you say it does not really help you in your quest,

Good luck


Ivor

[Sue Mackay]

I have prevented the full image from showing on the Forum as it is Crown Copyright - better in future either to show just a snippet or to give the full reference - there are plenty of us with access to the census online.

For what it is worth I think it says Griffith(s) as well!

[zane]

Thanks Sue, wasn't sure whether it could be copied or not!

Well think I have found my missing Henry! I went two generations back to his grandparents Richard Griffiths and Mary? I was just looking at their children (Henry's mothers siblings) and noticed that there were no boys to carry on the Griffiths family name. Henry's mother was Frances and her siblings were all girls (unless there are some boys I haven't found yet) and had a brainwave as Henry seemed to be born out of wedlock, maybe he was a Griffiths, so looked up some births and lo and behold there was a Henry Griffiths born in little Dewchurch in Mar quarter 1864 (Hereford 6a 496) and looking on the family search website there was a Henry, christened on 20th March 1864 and his mother was listed as Fanny (she was Fanny in one of the census's), no mention of a father.

I will order the birth certificate and see if Thomas is listed as the father or if he is the step father.

Thanks for everyones help, hopefully we got there in the end! :)

[IvorClucas]

Zane,

I think you will find he was born on 5th March 1864. My index often does not give details of the mother when the child was illegitimate and that is why I did not find him before as no parents are given in my list. Good luck with the birth Cert - hope it adds information rather than leading to more frustrations........:o

Ivor

[zane]

Thanks Ivor!