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Patricia Anne
07-08-2008, 8:00 PM
I have been banging my head against this brick wall for what seems like forever but is in fact only a few months. I walk away from it for a week and then come back and have another session of head banging but the outcome is always the same. I cannot find my ggg Grandfather James Motson. This segment of the family have given me so much trouble with mistranscriptions of the name but I have so far managed to track them all down apart from him.
I thought some new eyes and a fresh approach might prove useful so here goes.
Robert Motson born 1836 aged 5 the youngest and last of the children. Born and living in York Street Boston Lincolnshire. Mother Elizabeth aged 50. No father on census in 1841. (Just by way of coincidence I grew up in York Street, Boston. If only I had known!)
1851 Robert Matson (transcription error) aged 15 Farm Servant at Farlesthorpe born in Boston Lincs.
1857 Lucy Motson Selby born out of wedlock to Robert Motson and Mary Ann Selby. He is not named on the birth certificate so it is purely deduction based on the following:
1858 Robert Motson and Mary Ann Selby Marry in Mumby Lincolnshire on
May 19th. On the Wed. Cert his father is named as James Motson Labourer.
1858 Robert's mother Elizabeth dies.
1861 Robert Molson (another transcription error) and his Wife Mary Ann with daughters Lucy Selby and Hannah are living in Willoughby, Lincolnshire. His place of birth is transcribed as Baston Lincolnshire but should read as Boston.
So all of that fell into place but when I came to look for Robert's father James I can find no trace of him.
The nearest I have got is a James Matson Christened in Swineshead (a village on the outskirts of Boston) on 6/12/1791. The date is about right as Elizabeth would have been born around the same time but I can find no trace of a marriage or of her maiden name. So where was he in 1841 when the census was taken. Have looked for a death in the previous 5 years but can't find one that fits. The only James Motson marriage I can find was in 1840.
Perhaps your better trained eyes and minds will be able to find what I can't.
Thanks
Tricia

christanel
08-08-2008, 5:10 AM
Hello Tricia
No wonder your head hurts. I only spent a couple of hours searching and mine is already hurting. I found no more than you (using all the variations of names etc) and keep coming back to my first thought that Robert invented his father James especially for his marriage certificate.
This happens quite often and my own great grandfather had the cheek to add 'gentleman' after the invented father's name.
So you may be looking to parish records to see if there is anything in those to give a clue or two.
I am sure someone will be able to help you.
Christina:)

Patricia Anne
08-08-2008, 5:54 AM
Thanks Christina
I'm pleased it's not only me who can't crack this nut!
You have actually answered my next question about the name on the marriage certificate. Is it possible that the name is not real. There was a George Molson who died in Boston in 1840 and when I first began this I thought George must have been his father his death being the reason he wasn't on the census. It was only when I saw the Marriage Cert with the name of James that I became confused. Is it possible that being the youngest of the children he never actually knew his father's real name. Would the death certificate have his home address on? I have never ordered one before so am not sure what they show.
The other thing I can't get my head around is why didn't Robert and Mary Ann marry before Lucy was born. They were both of age. Just another of life's great enigmas.
Thanks for trying for me Christina I really appreciate it and at some point in the future I'm sure I am going to make that great WHOOP of joy when I find the answer to what was going on here!
Tricia

michaelpipe
08-08-2008, 6:01 AM
At least you know one thing - in the 1841 census Elizabeth is referred to as Ind. In most cases this would indicate that she is certainly widowed, so whoever Robert's father was had died before the 1841 census.

Michael

michaelpipe
08-08-2008, 6:33 AM
I just had a look at the IGI transcriptions for Boston (via Hugh Wallis' website)

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers.htm (http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/%7Ehughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers.htm)

I noticed that Elizabeth's oldest child was (in the 1841 census) Elizabeth aged 20. There is an Elizabeth bap 25 May 1822, father George Motson, mother Elizabeth.

Maybe this is the family? The next one William b abt 1826 is also there, as are Eleanor (Ellen), Thomas (Modson), Frederick, but not Robert as the cutoff point for this dataset is 1834.

Good Luck in the search for George

Michael :):)

michaelpipe
08-08-2008, 6:37 AM
GRO Death Index

George Motson, March Qtr 1840, Boston Reg Dist, Vol 14 Page 203

Michael:)

Patricia Anne
08-08-2008, 6:58 AM
Thank you so much for confirming what I thought must be the answer. I just wish I had thought to look in the batch numbers......DUH! Blinded by frustration!
There are seven children listed there and Robert makes number eight now it all begins to fall into place. I had George's death in 1840 and you have confirmed that for me so perhaps I can move on with this line a little now.
I still don't understand why he is named as James on the Wedding Cert. though. Why would he have made up a name?
Thank you again
Tricia

michaelpipe
08-08-2008, 7:09 AM
Robert was young when his father died - maybe he didn't know, maybe George had a second name James, maybe Elizabeth found another partner after George's death, and he was called James, lot's of possible reasons, not least the possibility that whoever wrote the entry made a mistake.

Take your pick!

Michael

Patricia Anne
12-08-2008, 4:31 PM
I knew that at some point I would be doing the happy dance with this problem.
Today I received an E mail from a wonderful man in America who is a very distant relative and he has a great deal of info on the Motson/Selby family.
It transpires that Robert was not the son of George and Elizabeth but was, in fact the son of their eldest daughter Sarah from a union with a Mr. James Warmouth. Robert was born when Sarah was 16 and in service and Robert lived with her parents in Boston. James and Sarah did not marry until quite a few years later.
That is why it says on the Marriage Cert. that his father is James and not George.
I know they say that little things please little minds but this has made my day as anyone who has been banging their head against a brick wall for months will understand.
Tricia

tiggerbrat
12-08-2008, 5:16 PM
I been doing head banging to I started with my parents CONNORS & PRATT, with me as home person added siblings their partners, kids, part of my mother's father's line had been done by mom's nephew, my mom said there's nothing more to find out, but apart from certificates I brought I know nothing, can't even find family emigration to australia, so worked on dad's side that's gone well until I hit Ireland can't find any births etc for several people I found 1 possible but unable to comfirm right father.
mom's dad's line stuck on George PRATT b about 1805 england father of Henry PRATT born Sep 20 1838 Elm Place, Wandsworth, Surrey, England
George m Ann HEMMING about 1835 Ann b about 1805 Surrey, England George's father Henry PRATT b 1786 m Susan unknown last name

mom's mom side
grandmother Cecilia Constance Maud EVANS b 1903 Sep 5, St Mary,Paddington, county of London, her parents William Bernard EVANS b 1881 going by marriage cert 1903 age 22, Bessie Edith MEREDITH b 1882 age 21 in 1903, Williams father William b ~1860 Cecilia had sister Bess/ie not sure about other siblings, Bessie's parents Harry MEREDITH b 1862 & Bessie b ~1863 found on 1891 census Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 928; Folio 35; Page 25;
but nothing after that date

dad's mom's side stuck Thomas McQuilty b Dec 15, 1876 born in NSW Australia his father Francis McQuilty no date was born Ireland Oct 6 1843 d Oct 25 1908 m Betsy Exton 1849-1917
then Joseph L Hyde b 1752 Manchester, Lancashire, England

dad's dad side Multi heads all in same area
Tuam, Galway, Ireland
I got Joseph John Connors b 1810 convict Ship: Eliza II (4) [1832]

his 2nd wife Hannah Connolly b 1825 Arrived in Australia 1840 on the "Elphinstone" - age 15
her father Patrick b Mar 31 1801 with family Came to Australia on 5 Oct. 1840 on Ship "Elphinstone"
her parents Patrick Donoghoe b ~1777 & Ellen Burke b ~1778
Joseph's 1st wife Sarah Williams b Jul 22, 1822 her parents John Williams was a convict who to arrived at Port Jackson aboard the " Duke of Portland" on the 27th July 1807.
apart from Sarah born Australia rest born Ireland

my family tree now has 12392 people 4575 families

christanel
12-08-2008, 9:09 PM
I knew that at some point I would be doing the happy dance with this problem.
Today I received an E mail from a wonderful man in America who is a very distant relative and he has a great deal of info on the Motson/Selby family.
It transpires that Robert was not the son of George and Elizabeth but was, in fact the son of their eldest daughter Sarah from a union with a Mr. James Warmouth. Robert was born when Sarah was 16 and in service and Robert lived with her parents in Boston. James and Sarah did not marry until quite a few years later.
That is why it says on the Marriage Cert. that his father is James and not George.
I know they say that little things please little minds but this has made my day as anyone who has been banging their head against a brick wall for months will understand.
Tricia
|jumphappy|woohoo||woohoo|
We'll all make the whoo hoo noise with you Tricia. Fantastic.
Christina

Patricia Anne
13-08-2008, 5:56 AM
Thanks so much Christina. Just need to follow a whole new thread now!
But have to go to work first.............oh joy!
Thanks for your help and thanks for doing the happy dance with me.
Tricia
|hug|