Pontypridd questions

[Caper]

Hi. I was hoping someone might be able to clear a few things up regarding Pontypridd. My grandfather's family departed Avonmouth aboard the Royal Edward in 1914 to join their father Job Taylor in Nova Scotia. This was probably not out of the ordinary for the miners to leave before their families but the closest I can find Job leaving anywhere near Avonmouth is aboard the Virginian in 1909. Either I have the wrong passenger or his family stayed behind in Pontypridd for almost 5 years!

Mathematically it IS possible (no children I know of were born between 1909 and 1914) but I find it unlikely for two reasons. 1). Job Taylor and wife Alice Ann Winstanley were born and married in Wigan and several generations of their parents were born in Wigan. 2). The first child, my grandfather William Samuel Taylor was born in Bristol 1905 (no factual proof exists yet) and the remainder of the children were all born in Pontypridd (again no factual proof yet). This tells me that when Job sailed for Canada he left a wife and 4 small children behind in a land they had just moved to.

Now to my questions.
a. Did something happen economically to Pontypridd that Canada became so attractive? (Forgive my ignorance of your history).

b. Was this common for miners to leave their family behind for THAT much time.

c. How many mines WERE there and how many workers were employed at one time?

Thanks in advance for letting me ramble. I look forward to replies.

ira

[Marie C..]

Maybe he was offered work in Pontyprdd and when they got there they didn't like it.
I am sure that in the 1900's Canada would been heaven compared to Pontypridd.There were offers of free land going in Canada and who in his right mind would turn that down for a life of hardship and poverty in Wales? Mining conditions were terrible and the families were crammed into tiny houses. The chapels dominated and life was very restricting.
He left his wife and family to find and make a home for them. I guess it took five years for him to work and save the fare for them to follow on. I've been googling it !
Marie

[brianb]

Hi Ira
there is much history of the Ponty area on the web, you could try initially looking at info on Pontypridd itself:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontypridd this includes names of nearby collery's.

While : http://www.data-wales.co.uk/index.htm will give you much more insight into the reasons people (miners especially) left South Wales for America and Canada, this includes oppresion by the mine owners when wages often went down and opportunities were negligable.

As for going on his own, it could well be they could only afford the one passage, and when he managed to save enough he sent for the family. Perhaps he moved to South Wales before realising how stark the opportunities were and then found out about the better life abroad, or maybe they had friends, families the wife and children stayed with.

Hope this helps

Brian

[Caper]

Thanks for the responses. Since posting these questions, I've been reading up on the history of Pontypridd and it sounds eerily familiar with Sydney, (Cape Breton Island) Nova Scotia. We've had more than our fair share of economic troubles with closing mines and a steel plant that was railroaded (pardon the pun) into disaster by the government. We used to be a major industry in Atlantic Canada at one time...but, I digress.

As far as Job not having enough money to take his whole family with him or until a few years later, I could see how that could happen. I've often heard it said that, although Job frequently repaired cars in his yard, he never actually owned one and had to hitch a ride daily to the mine he worked in. Ultimately, he died of a heart attack at 68 while working in the mine. So it doesn't look like he was anywhere near a comfortable retirement even at this age!

Is there some way to find out just exactly which mine he worked? We have a Miner's Museum at home that you could find out this type of information but not sure if you have one of these.

Thanks again for all the help.

PS Is it true you pronounce the 'ridd' in "Pontypridd" like 'eathe' as in "breathe"? God I wish I'd paid more attention to my grandfather when I was a kid! lol

[busyglen]

Thanks for the responses. Since posting these questions, I've been reading up on the history of Pontypridd and it sounds eerily familiar with Sydney, (Cape Breton Island) Nova Scotia. We've had more than our fair share of economic troubles with closing mines and a steel plant that was railroaded (pardon the pun) into disaster by the government. We used to be a major industry in Atlantic Canada at one time...but, I digress.

As far as Job not having enough money to take his whole family with him or until a few years later, I could see how that could happen. I've often heard it said that, although Job frequently repaired cars in his yard, he never actually owned one and had to hitch a ride daily to the mine he worked in. Ultimately, he died of a heart attack at 68 while working in the mine. So it doesn't look like he was anywhere near a comfortable retirement even at this age!

Is there some way to find out just exactly which mine he worked? We have a Miner's Museum at home that you could find out this type of information but not sure if you have one of these.

Thanks again for all the help.

PS Is it true you pronounce the 'ridd' in "Pontypridd" like 'eathe' as in "breathe"? God I wish I'd paid more attention to my grandfather when I was a kid! lol

My sister in law, was born near Ponty' and has always called it `Pontypreathe' and although we are not Welsh, we also call it the same.

Glenys

[brianb]

PS Is it true you pronounce the 'ridd' in "Pontypridd" like 'eathe' as in "breathe"? God I wish I'd paid more attention to my grandfather when I was a kid! lol[/QUOTE]

Yep thats how we say it, something to do with the Welsh "dd" sounding like "th" I think.

You may want to look at the following sites too:

http://www.welshcoalmines.co.uk/Photo.htm

http://www.gtj.org.uk/en/index

http://www.cmhrc.co.uk/site/home/

Unfortunately I am unaware how to find out which mine he would have worked at sorry, but hope these sites give you some more info on the South Wales area.

Then we have the anthem......
Welsh lyrics

Mae hen wlad fy nhadau yn annwyl i mi,
Gwlad beirdd a chantorion, enwogion o fri;
Ei gwrol ryfelwyr, gwladgarwyr tra mad,
Dros ryddid gollasant eu gwaed.
Gwlad, gwlad, pleidiol wyf i’m gwlad;
Tra môr yn fur i’r bur hoff bau,
O bydded i’r hen iaith barhau.

English translation of Hen Wlad fy Nhadau

The land of my fathers is dear to me,
A land of poets and minstrels, famed men.
Her brave warriors, patriots much blessed,
It was for freedom that they lost their blood.

Homeland! I am devoted to my country;
So long as the sea is a wall
to this fair beautiful land,
May the ancient language remain.



Brian

[Marie C..]

Abercynon just across the river might be the mine your Job worked at. They were sinking shafts for it in late 1800's.Marie

[John Nicholas]

Hello Ira,

A few footnotes to your questions.

It is pronounced 'preathe', as others have said, but usually foreigners have gone wrong before that. The 'y' in the middle should be pronounced like 'er' (as in a hesitation) rather than 'ee'. So try it as 'ponterpreathe' and you'll sound really authentic. Having said that, I must admit that plenty refer to the town in short, which will come out as 'pontee'!!!!

If you look at the geography of the area, you'll see that Pontypridd is at the junction of two mining valleys, the Rhondda and the Taff. There were lots of mines in each valley, easily reached from Pontypridd, without going even as far as Abercynon. The early years of the 20 century were a boom time for coal, although it was undoubtedly tough work and there would have been peaks and troughs in demand.

Perhaps your ancestor wanted to try Canada and was willing to return if it didn't work out. Maybe the family followed when it did work out, or because the First War was starting and they didn't know when they'd get another chance.....

Incidentally, I was brought up in Pontypridd and my grandfathers and their immediate families were miners at the time you are talking about.

John

[Caper]

So, I spent this past weekend rummaging through some of my brother's old notes and research to see what he has that I may have missed. Then I found it - the marriage certificate of my great grandparents. My great grandfather was a collier and lived at "High Street, Ammanford, South Wales" and the bride to be was living in Heapey, Lancashire which is where they were married.

In addition, I have a photocopy of an old map which has Chorley circled with a line drawn to Ammanford and the following note from my grandfather's half sister. It reads "This is the place where I lived with my grandmother until I was about eight (c1906), then my mother married Job and took me with them to South Wales, the place where we lived until we came to Canada."

One of the notes read "the Taylors came to Canada via Pontypridd, which is near Cardiff, Wales". This is why I thought my family lived in Pontypridd.

[kattyia5]

Hi All

My great grandfather William John Morgan was born in 1899 or 1900 34 (a??) under arthur street. His parents were William Morgan (s) born about 1875 in Aberdare His wife was Margaret Morgan nee Davies born 1879,
I have been unable to find them on the 1901 census. Is it possible to do an address search to see who was living there? I have Margarets birth cert but have been unable to find her son William John's, nor a passable marriage Cert. There are so many possibilities... I am not sure if he was the first born.
Can anyone help please?
karen