MORE HEADS NEEDED. MY ONE, CANNOT COPE.

[David Annis]

I need your help. This is a real hummdinger of a brickwall.
Facts.
John Thomas aged 40, a widower. Marries, Hannah Brown aged 20.
The marriage took place at St Peters Church in the parrish of Coreley, Shropshire. Aug 16th.1908. Thomas's father is named as William Thomas and his profession is Haulier. John Thomas is a labourer
Now Hannah Brown I know all about.
Both their residence's at the time of marriage is given as, Woodrow, Coreley.
Its John Thomas I cannot pin point. Born about 1868. But where and which William Thomas is his father.
There is a perfect match for John Thomas, living in Coreley, in the 1901 census. This John Thomas is married to Francis Thomas and they appear to have 4 children. Johns birth year is given as 1868. Perfect.
I have found 3 Francis or Frances marriages to a John Thomas.
Frances Ward. Ludlow.
Francis Smith. Stourport.
Frances Rebecca Dublin. Bromsgrove.
John in 1908 is a widower and aged 40. I cannot find any ref to a Francis Thomas dying in Coreley or anywhere.
How on earth am I going to match everything up to single out the John Thomas that marries Hannah Brown. The information by the way is off their marriage certificate of 1908.
There are so many John Thomas's and William Thomas's you will go cross eyed looking at them all.
The clue must lie in John's widowhood, who was Johns dear departed wife?
I have tried every combination and I'm hoping one of you out there can spot something I have missed or you have access to sites other than the one I use.
Cheers.
Dave.

[Procat]

Hi Dave,

This appears to be your man in 1881:

Born Bitterley, Shropshire, England

RG11; Piece: 2616; Folio: 36; Page: 18

[Procat]

1891:

Civil Parish: Cainham
Ecclesiastical parish: Knowbury
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England

Registration district: Ludlow
Sub registration district: Cainham

RG12; Piece: 2082; Folio 33; Page 16

Address Angel Bank

James Davies, Head, M, 36, Quarry Laborer, Salop, Cainham
Maria Davies, Wife, M, 43, Salop, Cainham
John Thomas, Stepson, S, 24, Quarry Laborer, Salop, Cainham
George Thomas, Stepson, S, 19, Stone Breaker, Salop, Cainham
Walter Thomas, Stepson, S, 15, Stone Breaker, Salop, Cainham
Maria Thomas, Stepdaughter, S, 12, Salop, Cainham
Sidney James Davies, Son, 5, Scholar, Salop, Cainham
Mary Ann Davies, Dau, 2 mo, Salop, Cainham

Hope some of this helps.

[Geoffers]

John Thomas aged 40, a widower. Marries, Hannah Brown aged 20...at St Peters Church in the parrish of Coreley, Shropshire. Aug 16th.1908. Thomas's father is named as William Thomas and his profession is Haulier.

Ugh! - John Thomas - nearly as bad as looking for John Smith. You have my deepest sympathy, but please chose better ancestors next time.


There is a perfect match for John Thomas, living in Coreley, in the 1901 census. This John Thomas is married to Francis Thomas and they appear to have 4 children.

In the 1901 census, where was this John THOMAS born?

Are there any other THOMASes living in Coreley in the 1901 census? In particular any with the same birthplace and any called William THOMAS?

Do you know when your John THOMAS died? Did he leave a will in which he mentions children whose names match those from the 1901 census entry?


John in 1908 is a widower and aged 40. I cannot find any ref to a Francis Thomas dying in Coreley or anywhere.

How old was Frances/Francis in 1901?

Don't forget that she could have had another first name - e.g. Ann Frances. If you use a search engine such as freebmd and just look for Frances THOMAS deaths, it will bring up those whose first name is Frances. People used and dropped first names at will.

The 1901 census entry in which the John THOMAS has four children - how old were they and where were the born? Were they all born in Coreley over a period of time, suggesting continual residence there. Are there then any THOMAS burials recorded in Coreley, or any MIs?

Did John THOMAS and his second wife have any children? Were they born in Coreley or somewhere else?

[David Annis]

Procat your a genius. Mary Ann Davis is a witness on the marriage certificate and you have a Mary Ann aged two in your 1891 findings. I think we are much firmer ground now thanks to you.
There are 4 children there called Thomas and all are stepchildren so Maria Davies, Wife, must have been a Thomas at some stage. More mysteries to uncover.
Geoffers your asking the same qustions as I am asking.
John Thomas in the 1901 census (A-----Y) where born Shropshire.
Francis Thomas, where born, Worcestershire. About 1871 aged 30.
I cannot find Johns death as yet or Francis', untill I sort out all these dammed Thomas's and your right I would be happier if his name had been Percy Frogwater.
I have done the combination of more names that include Francis or Frances, as shown.
All children are shown as being born in Coreley.

John Thomas and Hannah had a daughter, Dorothy Hannah Thomas in 1912, how many others I do not know.
On Dorothy Hannah's marriage certificate her fathers name is shown as Jack Thomas (Jacks are very thin on the ground) but on her birth certificate her father is named John Thomas and mother, Hannah Thomas, formerly Brown.
Dorothy is also shown as being born in Woodrow,Coreley.
Dorothys father is discribed as a "Stone Quarrier". This fits in with Procats findings rather well.

You now know has much as me. The family move to a place called, Crumps Brook and yes there is a Crumps Brook quarry there.

Dorothy marries a Thomas Davies in Cleobury Mortimer in 1940.
Yep you have guessed it. Which Thomas Davis, come back Percy Frogwater.
Cheers.
Dave.

Ps Hell I have just realised, Dorothy hasnt gone and married a step cousin has she. Heck Procat you may have sorted a lot more out at one stroke.

[David Annis]

I am a silly old trouser burp.
On Dorothys marriage certificate the witnesses for the marriage are James Thomas and Leonard Thomas. John and Francis have a Leonard in 1901 aged 4.
Thomas Davies's father is shown as Charles Davies. They are both labourers
Cheers.
Dave

[David Annis]

1891:

Civil Parish: Cainham
Ecclesiastical parish: Knowbury
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England

Registration district: Ludlow
Sub registration district: Cainham

RG12; Piece: 2082; Folio 33; Page 16

Address Angel Bank

James Davies, Head, M, 36, Quarry Laborer, Salop, Cainham
Maria Davies, Wife, M, 43, Salop, Cainham
John Thomas, Stepson, S, 24, Quarry Laborer, Salop, Cainham
George Thomas, Stepson, S, 19, Stone Breaker, Salop, Cainham
Walter Thomas, Stepson, S, 15, Stone Breaker, Salop, Cainham
Maria Thomas, Stepdaughter, S, 12, Salop, Cainham
Sidney James Davies, Son, 5, Scholar, Salop, Cainham
Mary Ann Davies, Dau, 2 mo, Salop, Cainh

Hope some of this helps.

Maria Thomas marries James Davies in 1885. District Ludlow.
Poor old William Thomas must have died between 1881 and 1885
Cheers
Dave

[David Annis]

Thanks to Procat's eagle eye I think this is sorted.
William Thomas marries Maria Tunks. District Ludlow. Herefordshire.
Maria is 14 in 1861 and living with her parents in Bitterley. Shropshire.
She was born about 1847 and everything looks as if it falls into place after that.
I wonder why they married in Ludlow, Herefordshire ?
Still stuck though with Francis Thomas, who the heck is she?
Cheers.
Dave.

[Procat]

Hi Dave,

Glad I was able to assist - though I must admit you have lost me now.:D

[David Annis]

Procat I also must admit it looks like a pigs breakfast so in reverse order here it is.
John Davis (b1916) marries Dorothy Hannah Thomas (b1912) in Cleobury Mortimer in 1940, Hopton Wafers, Shropshire.

John Thomas (b 1868) a 40yr old widower marries Hannah Brown (b1889) in Coreley in 1908. (Dorothy Hannah may or not have been their only child.)

John Thomas was married before, his wifes first name was Fransis or Frances.
I cannot find who she is, when and where this marriage took place or when and where she died.

William Thomas (b 1841) Marries Maria Tunks (b1847) in Ludlow in 1866. Our John Thomas is one of their sons.

Poor William dies leaving Maria a widow and she marries James Davis (b 1855) again in Ludlow in 1885 and in 1891 you found them living in Cainham, together with our John Thomas who is described as a stepson.

What is interesting did Dorothy Hannah Thomas who married a John Davis in 1940, marry one of her step cousins. The marriage certificate shows John Davis's father to be a Charles Davis. It would be useful to find out because like all the Thomas's, the Davis's are a fair old sized tribe in Shropshire and I have not placed him as yet.
Dorothy Hannah Thomas and John Davis are registered as being residents of Crumps Brook at the time of their wedding.
All the above has now opened a whole new knitting pattern to be sorted out and whats so magical about all of this is I have found heaps of ancesters I never knew existed.
Cheers
Dave.

[Procat]

Thanks Dave,

Got it now.

I am like you - the marriage of John Davis and Hannah Thomas would intrigue me enough to start working back to see if John is indeed connected.

It is a common name but worth a bit of research I think.

[David Annis]

Doug I have to take my hat off to you. Your all the way down under and up to your knee's in Kangroo's and Fosters larger and you hit the right spot first time. Have a tinny on me mate.
Cheers
Dave.

[Procat]

Will do David. |jumphappy

[David Annis]

I think I have found Frances/Francis Thomas.
All down to Peter Goody's thread "Solving Cenus Problems"
Well worth a listen to.
A John Thomas married a Frances Ward in 1891. District. Ludlow.
Now John Thomas marries again in 1908 at the age of 40 to Hannah Brown.
John is discribed as a widower. If so then Frances must have died but I am blessed if I can find out the date of her death.
The 1891 census says she was born in Worcestershire in 1871. The last child shown was born in 1899. I have tried Shropshire and Worcestershire. If Frances died, she does not show up so far in these counties. I dont suppose that John and Frances parted company and John calls himself widowed instead of divorced or his wife just ran away.
Cheers
Dave