Robina Smith

[ash33au]

Hi, I'm having trouble researching my gg grandmother Robina Smith. There are a few oral legends existing within my family regarding Robina and where she originated from, who her parents were etc. Unfortunately the only existing record that actually says where she was born is her death cert. As we all know, DCs don't always provide the most accurate information, however it is all I have got so I have to assume it is correct.

She is listed as having been born in Ayrshire in 1854 and her parents were Charles Smith and Mary Ann Smith (co-incidentally having the same surname?). Lets say this is accurate, then it brings me to my next stumbling block - everywhere I've looked online, I can't find her except on familysearch.org which has her being born in Ayrshire as well, however there is another record on that site that shows her being born in South Australia.

She is the second wife of John McPhee, whose first wife was also a Smith (Agnes) and died a year before Robina and John married. John and Agnes married in Ayr - according to oral tradition it was in Dalmellington. So I'm thinking Robina could be Agnes's sister or cousin/niece perhaps as there is a 20 year age difference.

It all seems to be a big mystery who she is and where she really came from. Any help would be appreciated.

[michaelpipe]

Hi ash,

I have looked at Scottish records for a marriage between John McPhee and Agnes Smith, nothing showed up.

Several births of Robina Smith, but none with the parents you name. I haven't looked after 1855 for the birth as my credits with Scotlands People ran out and their payment server has currently fallen in a heap.

Michael

[ash33au]

Thanks Michael.

We think John actually started spelling his name as McPhee when he came to Australia. In Scotland it was spelled as McFie.

I spent ages trying to track down anything for them on Ancestry but never found anything then had a dispute over being over charged and the rest as they say is history...

[michaelpipe]

Regarding John McFie/Phee - any idea of a date for marriage?

Michael

[ash33au]

Verbal history says approx 1854 - ironic in that it's the same year John's second wife was born.

I'm most interested as John has my same surname and robina is the mystery woman.

[michaelpipe]

No marriage for McFie & Smith between 1850 and 1900. One John McFie and an Agnes McAdam married in Glasgow 1853.

Checked for births in 1855 and 1856 - none with the parents you named. No births for Robina Smith recorded in Ayrshire up to 1860.

Michae l:confused:

[ash33au]

hence the big mystery...

Thanks for all your help. Looks like i will have to dig up more info at my end and keep searching.

[ChristineR]

I thought that I would check Victoria in case they passed through and had a kid or two.

Are these yours? if so it is your lucky day - as their ages and birthplaces, plus year and place of marriage should be recorded.

from Pioneer Index. Victoria 1836-1888

MCPHEE, John Murray
Father: John
Mother: Robeena SMITH
birth reg at NHILL in 1884
Reg Number: 26590

MCPHEE, Albert Harold
Father: John
Mother: Robeena SMITH
birth reg at Nhill, 1887
Reg Number: 22247

And then I found their marriage in South Australia

John MCFEE, aged 43, widower, father: James MCFEE
married Robina SMITH, aged 23, single, father Charles SMITH
at the residence of John Davidson, North Adelaide, on 1 May 1877
Ref - District: Adelaide Book- 111 Page-378

looking good - Charles Smith is her dad, and John is a widower!

Christine

[ChristineR]

and here is Agnes death...

South Australia

Agnes MCFEE, married, died aged 43, 9th october 1876
Relative: John MCFEE - husband
Residing at Port Elliot, died at Adelaide
Ref - District Code: Ade, Symbol: H
Book: 76 Page: 193

The H symbol means that she died in a hospital or institution

[michaelpipe]

Good one Christine. I can stop looking in Scotland now!!

Michael

[ChristineR]

Ash, I have PMed the births of the children to John and Agnes, John and Robeena to you.

A couple of possible deaths for children.

James MCFEE died aged 8 years, 25 Jan 1866 at Port Elliot
residing Port Elliot
Ref - dist EnB, book 23, page 38
relative - father, John MCFEE

Mary MCFEE, died aged 6 days, 18 Feb 1875 at Woodlands, Port Elliott (also her residential place)
Ref - Dist EnB, book 64, page 25
relative =- father John MCFEE

Winnifred MCPHEE died aged 7 years, 26 Dec 1877 at Adelaide, residing Adelaide. Dist: Ade, Book 84, page 113
relative - John MCPHEE, father

[ChristineR]

and further investigation of the South Australian BDM indexes show a Mary Ann SMITH and Charles SMITH having children from 1856 - beginning with twin girls, Agnes and Sarah. No birth registration for a Robina, nor marriage for the parents - so perhaps they married back and Scotland and Robina was born there which will account for family legend. I checked Victoria and Tasmania for her birth.

By having a child Agnes in 1856, it discounts this being the first wife's family as that Agnes was born about 1833 according to her death age.

From the birthplaces of their children, these two deaths may be of interest.

both deaths - Mary Ann SMITH, husband Charles
10 Sep 1905, age 74, residence and death place - Goolwa, dist: EnB, 312/175
13 Dec 1906, age 69, residence Wilcannia (NSW), died Goolwa, dist: EnB, 322/49

Christine

[ash33au]

Thanks for going to so much trouble Christine. As I mentioned in the pm, the kids and Agnes's death are all safely recorded and widely known. My biggest problem is locating where Robina comes from as she sort of just appeared from nowhere.

The Charles and Mary Ann Smith actually look like they are the parents of Isabella Smith, who married into my Gordon line. There was a rumour that she and Robina were sisters - I guess that could be our potential link, which would make my great grandparents first cousins |laugh1|

[ash33au]

Christine, this is what I actually have.

Marriage 1
John McFie (McFee/McPhee)
b.1833 Dalmellington, Ayr, Scotland
m. 1854 Dalmellington, Ayr, Scotland
Spouse: Agnes Smith b. 1833 Ayr, Scotland d.1876 Adelaide, South Aust

Children
- Agnes b.1857 on board David McIver
- James b.1858 Sth Aust (died at 8yo)
- John b.1860 Strathalbyn, Sth Aust
- Robert b.1862 Strathalbyn, Sth Aust
- Mary b.1875 (died at 6 days)
* Winnifred was one I didn't previously know
** I have marriages and offspring for Agnes, John & Robert

Marriage 2
John McFie (McFee/McPhee)
b.1833 Dalmellington, Ayr, Scotland d.1900 Irishtown, Tasmania
m.1877 North Adelaide, South Aust
Spouse: Robina Smith b.1854 ???? d.1897 Irishtown, Tasmania

Children
- Erith Marion b.1878 Balaklava, South Aust
- Sarah Elizabeth b.1880 Balaklava, South Aust
- Cedric Charles b.1882 Tatiara, South Aust
- John Murray b.1884 Nhill, Victoria
- Albert Harold b.1887 Nhill, Victoria
- Roseline Mary b.1889 Nhill, Victoria
- Preston James Wilfred b.1891 Irishtown, Tasmania
- Archie Donald McBlane b.1894 Irishtown, Tasmania
- Robina Agnes Isabella b.1897 Irishtown, Tasmania
* I have all marriage and offspring details for all of these children

**Isabella Smith (daughter of Charles and Mary Ann Smith) married Bryce Gordon, both of Goolwa, South Aust. They moved to Victoria in the 1880s and their daughter Isabella married Archie McPhee in Victoria in 1915.
Isabella and Robina Smith could be sisters as they seem to have the same parents. Christine's theory that Robina was born in Scotland prior to the family emigrating could well be on the right track here. Wondering also where Archie's third name of McBlane came from.

[ChristineR]

John Murray b.1884 Nhill, Victoria
- Albert Harold b.1887 Nhill, Victoria
- Roseline Mary b.1889 Nhill, Victoria

Now you knew about the Victoria births after all - but you said all available documentation did not have her birthplace - I am sure one of those Vic certificates will, highly abnormal for them not to have it, but it will cost $A17.50 to find out, no other way to be done I am afraid :)

Christine

[ash33au]

You got me Christine. All available documents for Robina are inconclusive and as I mentioned in pm so are the ones of her children. According to records, she was born in Ayr, Scotland and Adelaide and Port Elliot, both in South Australia. Hence the reason for all my confusion and pulling out of what little hair I have left.

[ash33au]

Ok so we have a Charles Smith whose spouse was Mary Smith having married in Maybole, Ayrshire in 1853... I wonder, I wonder, I wonder???

[ash33au]

No marriage for McFie & Smith between 1850 and 1900. One John McFie and an Agnes McAdam married in Glasgow 1853.

Checked for births in 1855 and 1856 - none with the parents you named. No births for Robina Smith recorded in Ayrshire up to 1860.

Michae l:confused:


Ok, things are hotting up lol

I found this marriage:

John McPhie and Agnes Smith
15 OCT 1854 Dalmellington, Ayr, Scotland

Makes sense for John's first marriage and also adds a fourth spelling of our family name :cool:

Also found an Agnes Smith born in Maybole in 1833

[ChristineR]

You got me Christine. All available documents for Robina are inconclusive and as I mentioned in pm so are the ones of her children. According to records, she was born in Ayr, Scotland and Adelaide and Port Elliot, both in South Australia. Hence the reason for all my confusion and pulling out of what little hair I have left.

I would stick with what info is on the birth certificates - and go by who the informant was. For example (I do not think SA birth reg asks for birthplaces of parents) so if John registered the first birth in Victoria, he may have said what he thought was right. By the next birth reg it might have been corrected to the right place.

I have such an example - first baby, hubby was down as born Sussex, subsequent ones are Essex, which was correct. She was ready for the question the next time.

Of course that theory flies out the window if Robina registered the births herself. Even then I have known people to put the place that they remember growing up in instead of where they were born.

That is exciting news with that 1853 marriage in Scotland - now they were possibly soon on the move to Australia and in all the ado with coming to a new land then they may have just simply not registered Robina's birth.

Christine

[ash33au]

It could very well be the excitement of coming downunder thata maybe they meant to register her here but forgot or perhaps they were in England enroute when she was born and didn't want her registered there.

If you do some searching on familysearch.org you'll see a few of the inaccurate records I have been talking about.

Out of curiosity Christine, did Charles and Mary Ann turn up with a daughter called Isabella in your search?

[ChristineR]

Hang on, sorry, thought I had done them - well I did, this morning but I accidently turned the window off instead of a second one and couldn't be bothered doing it again until I heard from you - yes, I do remember a Isabella, I think I recall seeing her marriage later on.

I''ll PM you the kids.

Christine

[ChristineR]

Isabella married Bryce Charles Gordon
2 Jan 1886
she was single, aged 21, father Charles Smith
he single, 23, father John Gordon
Place: Res of Chas Smith Goolwa
District: EnB Book/Page: 146/41

yeah, I know you will have it, but just in case.

cheers
Christine

[ash33au]

Yep, I had that one. I actually went to Bryce and Isabella's grave site here in Vic last week.

Wish i could just tidy up the Robina business!

[ChristineR]

You will do your head in - sometimes you just have to accept that all the 'i's cannot dotted and all the 't's crossed.

I would say the next step is the shipping list - to see if they had a child with them. They may have come on an emigration scheme direct from Scotland.

Who were the witnesses at John and Robina's wedding? any hints there.

Christine

[ash33au]

I haven't got the certificate on my person anymore... long story involving theft by a relative. However I did jot down a lot of the info ages ago and for the life of me, didn't write the witnesses names.

However...

Her father is listed as Charles Smith and the location is the Residence of John Davidson in North Adelaide. I think you've already psoted the rest.

[ash33au]

SA Shipping Record from www.theshipslist.com:

Flora, 702 tons, Captain James Withers, from Liverpool 30th December 1854, arrived at Port Adelaide, South Australia 7th April 1855

Smith
Charles 23 Labourer - Ayrshire
Mary 24
Rebecca inf

This has to be them!

[ash33au]

Could she have been born at sea? Edit- Not on this ship.


And could the record have been mis-transcribed? Robina/Rebecca... I've seen worse.