Thomas Jose - the disappearing man!

[MarkJ]

OK, Thomas Jose, age seems a bit variable, but lets work on him being born around 1836 or so (he was christened in 1836).
He married a Philippa ( I have the details regarding her maiden name etc) and, by October 1871, they had two daughters - Elizabeth Parkyn Jose and Mary Ellen Jose.
Then, they disappear!
No sign of them anywhere in the UK on the 1881 census, nor could I find them on the 1891. No death for any of them I could find.
In my desperation, I have even looked at the 1880 census for the USA - with no joy.
Thomas, like most of my ancestors, was an Ag Lab.
The only thing I can think of is that he emigrated somewhere. But where?
His brothers all remained here, he had no skill such as mining which may have encouraged an emigration to say Australia.

They seem to have vanished completely :(

If anyone comes across them (identifying middle names could be Tregilgas or Parkyn), I would be most grateful.

Even better- if anyone has a crystal ball and can tell me the parents of John Jose, born about 1776, allegedly in St Enoder (but I have never found him!) that would be amazing! I have all his later details - marriage, death, children etc, but no solid evidence of his actual birth anywhere!

Mark

[michaelpipe]

Hi Markj,
You probably have these already - baptisms from Cornwall Baptism Index.

None look all that interesting, though. Nearest is about 30 km away.


1. Parish Gunwalloe Name John JOSE Sex M Relationship Son Date 22 Jun 1777 Father Francis JOSE Mother Jane

2. Parish Gwennap Name John JOSE Sex M Relationship Son Date 22 Mar 1772 Father William JOSE Mother Ann

3. Parish Gwennap Name John JOSE Sex M Relationship Son Date 20 Nov 1773 Father Peter JOSE Mother Sarah

4. Parish Gwennap Name John JOSE Sex M Relationship Son Date 14 Oct 1785 Father Peter JOSE Mother Sarah

5. Parish Helland Name John JOSE Sex M Relationship Son Date 7 Jun 1778 Father Henry JOSE Mother Jane

6. Parish St Juliot Name John JOSE Sex M Relationship Son Date 20 Oct 1770 Father Stephen JOSE Mother Elizabeth

Michael

[Jan1954]

GRO has the death of Elizabeth Parkin Jose at the age of 3 in June quarter, 1874, volume 5c, page 69, St Columb District. :(

(Note the spelling of Parkin rather than Parkyn...)

[Jan1954]

Have you looked for them in Australia, Mark?

I ask, because in 1847, the barque David Malcolm (http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/australia/davidmalcolm1847.htm) went there with a James Jose, wife and infant on board. If this James Jose was any relation to your Thomas, it could provide a link for the family toddling off out there.

[Hugh Thompson]

:)Hi Mark.I have these deaths from New South Wales BDM.
Good luck.Hugh.



Deaths NSW. BDM.

Registration Number Last Name Given Name(s) Father's Given Name(s) Mother's Given Name(s) District
V1852307 38B/1852 JOSE CHRISTIAN INFANT Buy Now
333/1865 JOSE MANUEL AGE 56 YEARS DIED SYDNEY SYDNEY
4836/1865 JOSE MARY A SARAPIN SARAH NEWCASTLE
4880/1865 JOSE SARAH WILLIAM ANNA NEWCASTLE
5192/1865 JOSE JANE HANNAH PARRAMATTA
5610/1866 JOSE SERAPHIM AGE 36 YEARS DIED NEWCASTLE NEWCASTLE
8973/1875 JOSE JAMES AGE 74 YEARS DIED PARRAMATTA PARRAMATTA
6599/1884 JOSE EDGAR JOHN EMILY BATHURST
3728/1890 JOSE MARY J JOSEPH GRACE BROKEN HILL
4186/1891 JOSE LILIAN J WILLIAM MARY J BROKEN HILL
3798/1892 JOSE JOSEPH H ALFRED ADA BROKEN HILL
7/1900 JOSE RICHARD JOSEPH SYDNEY
2334/1911 JOSE EVELYN D ARTHUR M EVELYN A MOSMAN
12800/1913 JOSE SELINA GEORGE ELIZA COOMA
7332/1914 JOSE SELINA B JOHN B SELINA COOMA
13386/1919 JOSE HENRY W HENRY MARTHA SYDNEY
4217/1922 JOSE FRANCIS M JOHN B SELINA KOGARAH
9778/1925 JOSE BERTHA JOHN B SELINA SYDNEY
11630/1925 JOSE WILLIAM J BERTHA MARRICKVILLE
4844/1926 JOSE ROBERT W THOMAS P HELEN NEWTOWN
4156/1930 JOSE THOMAS P BENJAMIN SARAH NEWTOWN
6460/1935 JOSE WILLIAM T THOMAS MARY A ROCKDALE
11900/1942 JOSE STILLBORN FEMALE HARRY WILLIAM RUBY EVELYN PADDINGTON
20316/1943 JOSE JOHN BENJAMIN MANUEL ELIZABETH MARRICKVILLE
20341/1943 JOSE HELEN JAMES MARRICKVILLE
16129/1944 JOSE ALBERT FRANCIS JOHN EDITH CONCORD
12548/1950 JOSE HERBERT JOHN JOHN BENJAMIN SELINA CONCORD
14239/1950 JOSE EVA JANE ALBERT ERNEST ALICE ROCKDALE
27116/1955 JOSE THOMAS JAMES THOMAS PASCOE HELEN BALMAIN
13598/1956 JOSE JOHN WILLIAM JOHN MARGARET NEWCASTLE
19937/1956 JOSE RICHARD ARTHUR 87 YEARS LIVERPOOL CHATSWOOD
24447/1959 JOSE ELLEN ANGUS BURWOOD
17280/1964 JOSE UNNAMED GRAHAM HENRY ALMA MARY PENRITH
4655/1967 JOSE ROY WILLIAM JOHN CHARLOTTE SYDNEY
9457/1967 JOSE FRANK JOHN HERBERT HENRIETTA KIAMA
26358/1967 JOSE EVELYN AGNES EDWARD ROBERT MARIAN ST LEONARDS
43758/1968 JOSE FRANCES ANNE MAY JAMES MARY ANN HAMILTON
6089/1970 JOSE BRIAN ALBERT ALBERT HENRY JANET ALLISON SYDNEY
838/1971 JOSE HENRY WILLIAM HENRY WILLIAM ELLEN CATHRINE SYDNEY
60013/1971 JOSE ROBERT LAURENCE HENRY WILLIAM ELLEN CATHERINE BURWOOD
5369/1972 JOSE DAVID RAYMOND RAYMOND JAMES AVRIL MARJORIE SYDNEY
59235/1973 JOSE GLADYS ADELINE WILLIAM JOSEPH SARAH ANN BURWOOD

[MarkJ]

GRO has the death of Elizabeth Parkin Jose at the age of 3 in June quarter, 1874, volume 5c, page 69, St Columb District. :(

(Note the spelling of Parkin rather than Parkyn...)

Cheers Jan :)
Yep - that sounds like mine. Mother was Philippa Parkyn - and Elizabeth was named after her in the usual tradition.
Well, that helps to explain Elizabeth not appearing - and perhaps could help to suggest a reason the family left the area.

Mark

[Jan1954]

Mark,

Just a thought - maybe Elizabeth's death certificate would provide a clue to any change in Thomas' occupation. This in turn might help to explain the reason for any emigration...

It should also give you an idea as to whether or not they were still in St Enoder or one of the surrounding villages.

[MarkJ]

Have you looked for them in Australia, Mark?

I ask, because in 1847, the barque David Malcolm (http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/australia/davidmalcolm1847.htm) went there with a James Jose, wife and infant on board. If this James Jose was any relation to your Thomas, it could provide a link for the family toddling off out there.

Australia is a place which I think has possibilities (mind you - so has almost anywhere at the moment with this chap!), but the 1847 sailing doesn't seem to be overly promising I think.
Thomas' father was a James - but he was still in Cornwall at his death. One of Thomas' brothers was also a James - but he wasn't born until around the time the barque sailed, so he can be discounted.
Thanks for the info though - you never know when that may come in handy!

Mark

[MarkJ]

:)Hi Mark.I have these deaths from New South Wales BDM.
Good luck.Hugh.



Very much appreciated Hugh - thanks for taking the time to look those names up for me :)
Although nothing springs out at me straight away, I hope that I may be able to tie one or two of those names up with my lot!

Cheers,
Mark

[MarkJ]

Mark,

Just a thought - maybe Elizabeth's death certificate would provide a clue to any change in Thomas' occupation. This in turn might help to explain the reason for any emigration...

It should also give you an idea as to whether or not they were still in St Enoder or one of the surrounding villages.

Indeed it would Jan :) Her burial was not at St Enoder I believe - I have checked the parish records several times for the parish and, short of her entry being one of those odd damaged or scribbled on as an afterthought type of entries (which I could have missed I suppose), I suspect a different parish may hold the answer.

Better dig out my GRO "sekrit passwerd" and get that death certificate ordered :)

Cheers for the lead

Mark :)

[Hugh Thompson]

You're welcome Mark,I tried the Queensland BMD but their system seems to be asleep at the moment. I'll try tomorrow,Regards Hugh.:)

[MarkJ]

Hi Markj,
You probably have these already - baptisms from Cornwall Baptism Index.

None look all that interesting, though. Nearest is about 30 km away.


1. Parish Gunwalloe Name John JOSE Sex M Relationship Son Date 22 Jun 1777 Father Francis JOSE Mother Jane

2. Parish Gwennap Name John JOSE Sex M Relationship Son Date 22 Mar 1772 Father William JOSE Mother Ann

3. Parish Gwennap Name John JOSE Sex M Relationship Son Date 20 Nov 1773 Father Peter JOSE Mother Sarah

4. Parish Gwennap Name John JOSE Sex M Relationship Son Date 14 Oct 1785 Father Peter JOSE Mother Sarah

5. Parish Helland Name John JOSE Sex M Relationship Son Date 7 Jun 1778 Father Henry JOSE Mother Jane

6. Parish St Juliot Name John JOSE Sex M Relationship Son Date 20 Oct 1770 Father Stephen JOSE Mother Elizabeth

Michael

Hi Michael,
Yes - I have seen the list in the past, but thank you for taking the time to look them up.

I have two vaguely possible scenarios in my mind - and have had for several years.
The first is that John was born on the border of two parishes - St Enoder and St Stephen in Brannel. I know that as an adult, he lived literally on the border - it went through his garden. So perhaps he was born in St Stephen. There is one Jonathon Jose baptised to a single mother around the right time, but I have not been able to prove that this is the same John.
The other is the John from Helland in the list above. He had a brother called Thomas - and there was a Thomas as a witness at Johns marriage...
Also, Helland is near Bodmin - a straight main road down to St Enoder parish. Another slight possible clue is that only one Jose headstone exisits in St Enoder churchyard - an Arthur Jose who seems to have come from Bodmin.
So there is circumstantial evidence for both the Helland John and the St Stephen Jonathon....

No wonder I have hardly any hair left :D

Mark

[michaelpipe]

Hi Michael,

..............So there is circumstantial evidence for both the Helland John and the St Stephen Jonathon....

No wonder I have hardly any hair left :D

Mark

I was following Thomas back from his marriage in 1866, and got to the 1841 census where his brothers names go from John (oldest) Henry (next) etc. John is obviously after his grandfather, then Henry, possibly gt grandfather.

The other possible Johns all have fathers named Francis, William, Peter and Stephen, and none of these names feature in either later generations as far as I can see. So Henry in Helland would be the best choice "by default" as the gt grandfather of Thomas.

As for the Jonathon, I can't comment, except to say that in my family in the 18th & 19th century, if there was a Jonathon, they always went to great pains to ensure that it didn't become contracted to John, even to the extent of correcting parish records in some instances.

Just a few idle comments, but maybe a few ideas.

Michael

ps By the way I have searched for Philippa Jose incoming into Canada and Australia, so far no luck.

[MarkJ]

Your theories seem to match mine Michael :)
In my own mind, John from Helland does seem to have a fair amount of circumstantial support for being mine.
The St Stephen/St Enoder border connection is my main sticking point against "Helland John". But to be fair, I have no actual proof that John Jose lived at the location (called Sunrising - now under thousands of tons of china clay waste) in his early life, only later - censuses, births of children etc.
I can see me having to look much more carefully at Helland records now to see if I can fit together more evidence to support John coming from there.
I did try to find any marriage for the Helland John which would eliminate him from my list, but I didn't discover anything - no marriage or death I could find.

[Hugh Thompson]

Hi Mark,Is this the family? sorry to bother you but every time I look for the Ley family I find a Jose!! Hugh.:confused:

1861 Census Cornwall
22,Trethens Farm,1,Stephen Jose,Head,M,49,,Farmer Of 200 Acres Emp 2lab,Lanteglos Cornwall,,
,,,Elizabeth Jose,Wife,M,,49,Wife,Tintagel Cornwall,,
,,,William Ley,Servnt,U,16,,Carter,Lanteglos Cornwall,,
,,,Phillip Cornelius,Servnt,U,14,,Carter,Lanteglos Cornwall,,
,,,Ann Cornelius,Servnt,U,,22,Dairy Maid,Lanteglos Cornwall,

[MarkJ]

Nope - there are several quite distinct Jose families in Cornwall, even now.
As anyone who has looked for them will have noticed, there are a lot in the Redruth/Gwennap area (where the famous singer, Richard Jose came from), then there are smaller groups in Penzance, Truro and my lot in St Enoder.
You can tell they are not my lot Hugh - they have servants and employees! My lot were almost exclusively Ag. Labs, masons or blacksmiths :)

Cheers,
Mark

[blue eyes]

Though no help at all, there some Jose in Wales from Cornwall but nothing for your Thomas only a Thomas with a wife Jane and they are together in 1871.

[MarkJ]

Always useful to hear about Joses though Julie :) Although a commonish name in Cornwall, it is very particular to Cornwall.

Mark :)