1st Bn. Leicestershires - where were they?

[ReggieC]

Hello,

I would like to know more about the locations the 1st Leicestershires were fighting.

Specifically I'm researching a man who was taken prisoner on 21/10/99 and then "recaptured" on 06/06/00 and then wounded in the foot on 24/10/00.

If anyone can give me information or point me in the right direction I'd be very grateful.

Reg

[Geoffers]

Welcome to the British-Genealogy forums


I would like to know more about the locations the 1st Leicestershires were fighting.....I'm researching a man who was taken prisoner on 21/10/99

I presume that you mean 1899?

If this is the case, you could try

1) Try the London Gazette to see if there is any mention of the battalion in despatches.

2) Locate his service record.

3) Regimental museum

4) A general history of the Boer War which ought to be available in most larger libraries.

5) Use a search engine and enter 'Battle of Talana Hill'

[keith9351]

17th (the Leicestershire) Regiment of Foot

Hope this makes sense. 1 being 1st Battalion, F being Foot Regiment hence 1/F17 being 1st Battalion 17th Regiment of Foot.

1899 Oct. 20 Talana

Cav: H18 Inf: 1/F17 1/F60 F87 F103

http://web.archive.org/web/20051221062725/www.talana.co.za/Talana+booklet.html

1900 June 2-9 Laing's Nek

Cav: DG3 D1 H13 H18 Inf: F2 F4 1/F8 F11 2/F13 2/F14 F17 F18 F20 F26 F31 F40 F41 F60 F63 1/F65 F68 F77 F89 F92 F102 RB RN

I can't see the 17th in action on the 24/10/00

1900 Oct. 13 Geluk Cav: H8 H14

Keith

[ReggieC]

Thanks Keith and Geoffers,I suspect my chap must have been wounded at Talana, as the link says that the wounded and dead were left in Dundee and the Boers captured the empty town.

As for his recapture on June 6th 1900, I suppose he wasn't necessarily recaptured by the 1st Leicesters. I note that Pretoria was captured on June 5th, so potentially he could have been taken there...

Thanks for all your help.
Raich

P.S. I have his service record but it's vague with locations, etc.

[ladysmith]

Reg - 1/Leicesters qualified for the clasp Talana on their QSA medals despite not actually taking part in the battle. They were detached to look after the British camp which was well away from the fighting. As such, your man was quite a rarity being taken POW on that date. He may not have been wounded but it's possible, for example, that he was attached as an orderly in the field hospital there and was one of those who stayed behind to look after the patients when the rest of the force withdrew to Ladysmith.

As you suspected, British prisoners from Talana were indeed carted off to Pretoria and released when the British occupied the city in June 1900.

He would have missed being besieged in Ladysmith (clasp Defence of Ladysmith) with the bulk of the battalion but should have rejoined in time for the operations at Belfast/Bergendal/Geluk (clasp Belfast) in August 1900. The battalion was also involved in the operations around Badfontein and Lydenburg in October 1900 which is where he may have been wounded. After that they were in the eastern Transvaal and took part in much mounted patrol work as well as garrison duty.

If you can advise his name and service number I'll check his casualty roll entry for you.

David

[ladysmith]

Reg - On second thoughts he was more likely to have been in the Mounted Infantry detachment at Talana. This was made up of parties of men seconded from the infantry regiments and attached to the 18th Hussars. They infamously had one of their three squadrons cornered and the survivors taken prisoner as a result of the incompetence of their CO. Some Mounted Infantry were with them.

Although detailed references to the Mounted Infantry in the Boer War are few and far between, the cover photo of Thomas Pakenham's book "The Boer War" shows men of the Leicesters M.I. plodding through the mud on the way from Talana to Ladysmith.

David

[ReggieC]

Thanks very much David,

Here is his ancestry record if you have access to that.

http://content.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1114&iid=miuk1914a_084277-01263&fn=Ernest&ln=Elliott&st=d&ssrc=&pid=250298

This chap was wounded in the foot "severely" by gunshot. Later he'd get blown up in WW1 but survived, only for his old wound to play up (peripheral neuritis) and he was medically discharged.

Raich

[ladysmith]

Raich - I'm not signed up for ancestry but I just need his name and (preferably) his Boer War service number to check the casualty roll.

David

[ReggieC]

Raich - I'm not signed up for ancestry but I just need his name and (preferably) his Boer War service number to check the casualty roll.

David

Hi David, Hi name is Ernest Elliott and his number appears to be either 4058 or 4068 - the writing on his service record is a bit messy.

Thanks
Raich

[ladysmith]

Hi Raich - The casualty roll shows 4058 Pte. E. Elliott 1/Leicesters missing in action at Dundee (=Talana) 26/10/1899 (wrong date - should be 20/10/1899) and wounded at Vredefort 24/10/1900. This will have been a minor action.

In addition, in the PIN 71 files at the National Archives there is an Ernest Elliott in file 71/2480. He enlisted in 1894 and died in 1945. That's all the information the PIN file indices show but there's a very good chance he's your man.

The PIN 71 series are Pension Invalidity files and cover many (but by no means all) Boer War era soldiers who were discharged to pension as a result of disabling wounds or sickness. These files can run to over 200 pages and contain masses of information including medical examination records, pension awards, disciplinary records, death certificate, correspondence to and from the man, etc. I have a number of these files and they are so big that my researcher digitally photographs the pages and puts them on CD-ROM because hard copies would weigh a ton.

If, as I assume, the service record you have is his WO 97 attestation and service papers there is a sure fire way of verifying that he is the PIN man. If a man also has a PIN file, at the top of the front page of his WO 97 service papers there will a handwritten reference on the lines of 1234/FW/M. It's the 'FW' bit that is key as that's an abbreviation for 'Former War'. i.e. A man invalided from a conflict prior to WW1.

If that shows up it's your lucky day and I recommend that you get a researcher to dig out his PIN file. You won't be disappointed. If you would like the details of my researcher, who is THE specialist researcher for PIN files, PM me.

Regards, David

[HARMAN]

Hello,

I would like to know more about the locations the 1st Leicestershires were fighting.

Specifically I'm researching a man who was taken prisoner on 21/10/99 and then "recaptured" on 06/06/00 and then wounded in the foot on 24/10/00.

If anyone can give me information or point me in the right direction I'd be very grateful.

Reg

1st Leicestershire Regiment: now the Royal Anglian Regiment saw action in the following battles.
LADYSMITH
Talana Hill (also known as the Battle of Dundee
The Battle of Spion Kop.
What was the name of the person you are researching.

[ladysmith]

1st Leicestershire Regiment: now the Royal Anglian Regiment saw action in the following battles.
LADYSMITH
Talana Hill (also known as the Battle of Dundee
The Battle of Spion Kop.
What was the name of the person you are researching.

Harman - Source references on units and battles in the Boer War are not infrequently misleading or incorrect and I'm sorry to say that there are a couple of instances in the sources you used for your post.

As I mentioned in an earlier post 1/Leicesters qualified for the Talana clasp on their QSA medals simply by being in the prescribed area but, apart from a few Mounted Infantry attached to the 18th Hussars, guarded the British camp and saw no action.

They were in the British column that withdrew to Ladysmith where they were besieged from 2/11/1899 until 28/2/1900. They were therefore not at Spion Kop (the second unsuccessful attempt to relieve Ladysmith) which was fought on 24/1/1900.

Regards, David

[kaigs]

Hello,

I would like to know more about the locations the 1st Leicestershires were fighting.

Specifically I'm researching a man who was taken prisoner on 21/10/99 and then "recaptured" on 06/06/00 and then wounded in the foot on 24/10/00.

If anyone can give me information or point me in the right direction I'd be very grateful.

Reg

Hello Reggie, the dates that you give are1) for the battle of Dundee just prior to the Siege of Ladysmith and 2) would be his release date in Pretoria. your best bet is to contact Robin Jenkins at the leicester museum at RPJenkins (at) leics.gov.uk.
Regards
Brian Kaighin

[NFurniss]

I can't follow the previous posts with additional information but I should like to add a bit of personal history to this thread.
My grandfather, James Chamberlain Hubbard was a farrier with the 1st. Leicesters. He was a despatch rider to General Buller. My grandmother was in Ladysmith at the time of the siege with several small children. It was such an horrific situation, my grandparents would not say a lot about Ladysmith. I was born after WW1, called The Great War in the thirties. This war was more on my grandparents minds than the Boer War. I was able to get a great deal of help from South Africa by following up several leads on this forum when in it was Rod Neeps charge. This was about a year before he went off to Africa. There must be several posts in the archives.