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Jane_Adams
10-06-2008, 8:05 PM
Not sure if this is the correct area for this, feel free to move if it should be somewhere else....


We're trying to identify the uniform on a family photo and wondered if anyone could help.

This is what we know (admittedly not a huge amount!)

The woman in the photo, we think, is my nan's aunt (family 'legend' is that its the aunt she was named after). She was born in 1886 in Poplar. There is a photographers name on the embossed at the bottom of the postcard, Geo. A Laver, Thornton Heath. I have located a George A Laver in Croydon/Thornton Heath on the 1901 census who is age 13. Assuming this is the same person I would imagine this puts this picture at around WW1 time. The picture is we assume taken at the christening of the baby - it appears this photo was taken in a church as it looks like they are sitting on pews and there is what looks like a stained glass window in a stone wall behind them.

We can't work out whether the man is wearing a military uniform or whether its for a job. I have a close up of the cap badge and looking on a website of WW1 military cap badges, it doesn't look like any of them. It appears to have a crown on the top and some kind of multi-pointed star (like an asterisk) in the middle, with something along the bottom. Unfortunately its quite dark and hard to tell. He also has some kind of badge on his arm and on his pocket.

Can anyone shed any light on what uniform this might be?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/jane_clem/Picture009-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/jane_clem/Picture013-1.jpg

I can email the picture to anyone who wants to see it closer up.


Many thanks.


Jane
Jane_Adams
10-06-2008, 8:26 PM
We've just worked out (by random googling!) that its Royal Artillery :)

Now I just have to work out WHO they are!
Jan1954
10-06-2008, 8:27 PM
Hello Jane,

The star in the middle looks more to me like a wheel.

How about the Royal Artilliery? Their badge is at the bottom of this page: http://www.militarybadges.org.uk/badges/corps3.htm

I would be grateful for other opinions.
MarkJ
10-06-2008, 8:27 PM
Jane,
The badge looks like the Royal Artillery to me.

Mark
Jan1954
10-06-2008, 8:29 PM
Crumbs, Mark! My Military knowledge is gradually improving! :D
MarkJ
10-06-2008, 8:32 PM
Seems like the RA badge is one we can identify fairly easily Jan!

I would agree with Janes guess that it is WW1 - a shame we can't see the arm clearly as that may give us a bit more idea as to what the gentlemans role was within the RA.

Mark
Jane_Adams
10-06-2008, 8:42 PM
Thanks guys :) Its nice to have confirmation that we're barking up the right tree!

I was surprised how much more detail we could see once we zoomed in a bit closer on the photo - thought it was going to be a of a blurry smudge.

Sadly I still don't seem to be able to use this information to confirm a marriage I had found.

I believe that the lady in the picture is Ellen Hancock, b. 1886 in Poplar. I have found one marriage in 1911 in Poplar to either a John W Pett or a Claud S Cadel. I can't find any births for Pett with Hancock as mother, but I have found a few for Cadel, two of which are in Croydon (which is near Thornton Heath, where the photographer of this picture is from). One is in 1916 and the other is in 1921, both boys. Assuming (and it is a BIG assumption) that this marriage and these two births are correct, could this picture be as late as 1921 (if it was for the younger boy's christening) - and is it possible this is a picture of two boys. I think facially the older child looks like a boy but not sure about the clothes.
Jan1954
10-06-2008, 8:50 PM
Boys wore dresses for quite a while, Jane.

Have a read of this thread: http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25555
pipsqueak
10-06-2008, 8:50 PM
Even as late as WW1 it was still quite common for very young boys to be clad in garments which appear to be dresses. I have a number of photos to prove it, so your hunch that the older child looks like a boy is probably correct :)
Jane_Adams
10-06-2008, 9:05 PM
Thanks for that. I knew that boys did wear dresses at some stage but was surprised that it was as late as that.

I'm inclined to think I may have the right marriage and those children. I'd just like to tie the Cadel name with Royal Artillery.
MarkJ
10-06-2008, 9:30 PM
Do you know if he survived the war Jane? If not, he should be on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website. Also worth looking to see if there is any medal card for him - people who served in WW1 received medals such as the Victory one etc.

Mark

Edit: there is one CADEL listed on the CWGC site - Augustus Ferdinand Cadel. Died aged 26 and served with the Royal Field Artillery, which ties in with the cap badge as well.
Jane_Adams
10-06-2008, 9:48 PM
Do you know if he survived the war Jane? If not, he should be on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website. Also worth looking to see if there is any medal card for him - people who served in WW1 received medals such as the Victory one etc.

Mark

Edit: there is one CADEL listed on the CWGC site - Augustus Ferdinand Cadel. Died aged 26 and served with the Royal Field Artillery, which ties in with the cap badge as well.

Looking at the WW1 records on Ancestry there are a few Cadels that were in the Royal Field Artillery.

The one on the marriage record is Claude S Cadel though, and I can't find any records that are anything like that name.

I have found him on the 1891 census but not on 1901. He was born Claude Stanley Cadel in 1890 in Hackney, son of John and Charlotte.
Jan1954
10-06-2008, 9:55 PM
I have found him on the 1891 census but not on 1901. He was born Claude Stanley Cadel in 1890 in Hackney, son of John and Charlotte.

In 1901 he has been transcribed as Wadel: RG13; Piece: 1266; Folio: 156; Page: 11.
Jane_Adams
11-06-2008, 7:57 AM
Thats great, thanks! I hadn't got around to doing a really good concerted search for him in 1901, so you've saved me a job there!
daggers
12-06-2008, 10:30 AM
The photo seems to show a chevron on on the upper left arm. The cap badge is definitely Royal Artillery, but could be RFA, RGA or RHA.
The National Archives Documents Online shows three Cadels in the Royal Field Artillery who qualified for WW1 campaign medals, but none in RGA or RHA. One is Augustus, another Arthur and the third Evan. The first two were Gunners [equivalent tank to private], Evan was Acting Bombardier, [then equivalent to Lance-corporal]. For £3.50 you can download the copy of their medal cards, and you might be lucky and get all three for that price. The cards may also be available via Anc...
Daggers