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quester
26-05-2008, 6:05 PM
Thomas is my Brickwall. He had Children by Jane Williams born in The Lying In Hospital of London rangind from 1821 to 1832. She married again in 1833 to Augustus Vere Drury, Officer of Royal Navy and they had 2 children. I have extensive records and huge tree which includes Janes siblings, which ended about 1930 and is very well doctumented, but which includes two Mystery Men. Janes Father, listed as Edward Williams of Wales, who married Jane Palmer of Axminster, whom we know quite a bit about, and Thomas Rumball husband # one ?? , who was reportedly a rich man who gambled it away leaving her penniless. no birth record for Thomas, no death record which fits, no baptism that fits, no marriage record . Researching Rumball's (of which I am one) found all likely Thomas's married to someone else. The old gent. that devoted a small fortune on his research, hiring pros. etc.
only gives the above info. but one remark caught my eye. "WHEN Thomas LEFT Jane she was Penniless with five small Children". All soets of reasons why this mystery crossed my imaginative mind and one led me to the slave trade. in 1790 or so, which is the time range ( 1777-1796 I figured Thomas was born ,is Thomas Rumball of Whitehaven owner of his own Slave Ship. In 1817-1818 he marrie Rachel Biggs or Briggs of Liverpool. They had children Mary and Joseph. On the Island of Barbaos, West Indies ther were a family of Rumball's with given names common in our family, who likely used slaves as Thomas shipped in there often with his cargo. Have any of you ever followed up this Barbados family? The names White, and Howell married into this family. Barbados was full with Williams, and Palmers too. I suspect a connection Between the names Williams and Holland as this shipping company out of Liverpool has been mentioned in a familyBio. Maybe this accounts for the secrecy and mystery which The Old Priest put so much money and effort into|banghead| HELP!
A newcomer.
quester

Geoffers
26-05-2008, 8:53 PM
Thomas is my Brickwall. He had Children by Jane Williams born in The Lying In Hospital of London rangind from 1821 to 1832. She married again in 1833 to Augustus Vere Drury, Officer of Royal Navy.......Researching Rumball's found all likely Thomas's married to someone else. The old gent. that devoted a small fortune on his research, hiring pros. etc. only gives the above info. but one remark caught my eye. "WHEN Thomas LEFT Jane she was Penniless with five small Children".

Hello and welcome to the British Genealogy forums.

Some initial thoughts that cross my mind:

1. What did Thomas RUMBALL do for a living in London? What is his occupation from baptismal registers?

2. Have you tried looking for for variant spellings of the name?

3. What is the source for the statement - "When Thomas left Jane she was penniless"?

4. If Thomas was a debtor or bankrupt - does he appear in the London Gazette (http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/home.aspx?geotype=London)?

5. Do any of these wills (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/search-results.asp?searchtype=browserefine&query=first_name%3dthomas%7clast_name%3drumball&catid=6&pagenumber=1&querytype=1&mediaarray=*)relate to your chap? Could No.4 on the list be Thomas - perhaps no.3 his dad?

6. In looking for a burial for your chap, have you tried the NBI?

7. Does the name appear in any early directories for London, which may hint at connection to any trade, profession or business?


the time range ( 1777-1796 I figured Thomas was born

In your shoes, I would be disinclined to restrict the period of his birth to this year range. Also in searching parish registers, do not forget that he may have been baptised several years after birth.


is Thomas Rumball of Whitehaven owner of his own Slave Ship. In 1817-1818 he married Rachel Biggs or Briggs of Liverpool.

Do you have any reason for picking out the above chap, other than the name and years appear to fit?.....Is there any paperwork found by the ol'bor who conducted the research to link him with your family in London?

susan-y
26-05-2008, 9:54 PM
Hi quester....
Welcome!
I'm afraid I won't be any help, but I was fascinated with your story. It caught my eye, because I grew up on a farm in British Columbia and Rumball Creek flowed through it. It was named after an old bachelor by the name of Fred Rumball who at one time owned part of our farm, before my Dad purchased it from him.
Rumball is an unusual name....
Sue

quester
27-05-2008, 3:09 AM
Hi Sue!
I do not think Rumball Creek is where my family settled, but they did settle in Canada. Peace River in Alberta Canada Around Calgary. My direct line is by Herbert Henry Rumball, son of Adeline Eliza Hanson Rumball and Henry Rumball British subjects who's children were all born in Constantinople, Turkey where Henry worked in the Embasy and where Adeline was also born. The Rumball creek where the Deaf Camp is intrigued me and I wrote to the Rev. Rumball who runs it but got no answer. As far as I know the East and West Rumballs are unconnected. Nice to meet you though, and thank you for the input. quester I have not registered a profile yet but my name is Helen.

quester
27-05-2008, 4:43 AM
1. What did Thomas RUMBALL do for a living in London? What is his occupation from baptismal registers?
Answer : The only Baptizmal record that was found by the Family tree maker in 1920's was for a William Rumball , 2 Sep 1790 , parents Thomas and Mary Rumball.


2. Have you tried looking for for variant spellings of the name?
Answer: Yes, once found a census spelled Rumble and once Rumbell which were my family.


3. What is the source for the statement - "When Thomas left Jane she was penniless"?
Answer: From My 2nd great grandmother, Jane Rumball's sister Elizabeth Ann Williams Maceroni's grandson Wilfrid Bernard Vaillant, Cleric, who is the Family Historian who compiled all the data and hired the pros As a family member he might have recorded The death and Burial of Thomas if nothing else, as he has gone into great detail about the rest of the family. The term " left her" is odd.


4. If Thomas was a debtor or bankrupt - does he appear in the London Gazette (http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/home.aspx?geotype=London)?
Answer: I looked, at that Url and did find a William Samual Rumball, Coachmaker up for orders 28 April 1827. I had considered This Rumball Coachmaker found in the directories and in The London Times around that time selling off property which I thought sounded like Thomas, but was referred to as Mr. Rumball only.



5. Do any of these wills (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/search-results.asp?searchtype=browserefine&query=first_name%3dthomas%7clast_name%3drumball&catid=6&pagenumber=1&querytype=1&mediaarray=*)relate to your chap? Could No.4 on the list be Thomas - perhaps no.3 his dad?

ANswer: # 4 looked likely and I have been trying to make up my mind to send for it for some time. I forgot to look at 3 and shall do so.




6. In looking for a burial for your chap, have you tried the NBI?

Answer: No, but the rest of the Rumball's were buried in a family plot at Kensal Green Cemetery


7. Does the name appear in any early directories for London, which may hint at conenction to any trade, profession or business?

Answer Yes, and the Coachmaker was the only one connected to building.
Wilfred also made a note that he built warehouses. a hint from another contact led me to a Thomas Rumball who worked on the Portland Place renovation, but he seemed too old and was marriedto someone else. This one was a brick layer. Father? For some reason I rejected that idea. Maybe the dates were too close.




Do you have any reason for picking out the above chap, other than the name and years appear to fit?.....Is there any paperwork found by the ol'bor who conducted the research to link him with your family in London?

Answer: Wilfrid did not consider The Slave Trade idea. I found that Thomas Rumball of Whitehaven myself, also although Wilfrid recorded Janes brother as Thomas Williams who also appeared in the Biography of Colonal Francis Maceroni, as being a survivor of a ship taken by a ship of the King of Naples, Napoleon's brother. Francis watched from shore as Thomas Williams was brought ashore, having been spared because he was a Freemason. Francis said he was the son of the Williams Partner of of the Holland Shipping Co out of Liverpool, who was sent along to look after the especially valuable cargo.
This speaks to me of both Mystery men, Edward Williams, my 3rd great grandfather about whom nothing is know. Slavery would be a reason to be secretive. FRancis and Thomas Williams became great friends at Naples, and met again on their way back to England. Then again Francis mentions hos good friend Tom in London. Is it just a co-incidence that Francis just happened to then Marry into the Williams family or are all these Thomas Williams the same man and the reason Francis met hos wife Jane Rumball's sister Elizabeth Ann, Wilfrids Grandmother, and why he also had children by another Sister Charlotte Bythinia Williams. Wilfrid excluded Charlotte and her family from the Tree, even going so far as to scratch through all records in his collection referring to her. However Jane was a witness to this second wedding and the two seperate family descendents are now comparing data. This has been quite a family project. I just received a mailing of about l00 pgs. of copies of Wilfred's search. Those old copies are wearing out my old eyes, but I would like to see the end of this before I die.
\Thank you so much for the input. If I have done this answer wrong please forgive me. I need to have some lessons, and do a profile. I am Helen and almost 83 yrs. old.
Quester

Geoffers
27-05-2008, 7:47 AM
The only Baptizmal record that was found by the Family tree maker in 1920's was for a William Rumball , 2 Sep 1790 , parents Thomas and Mary Rumball.

I think that you you need to hunt out the parish registers of baptism for the children of your Thomas. The baptismal entries should record his occupation. This is important in trying to establish a link to other information that you have located.



once found a census spelled Rumble and once Rumbell which were my family.

There are several other variants spellings, including RUMBOL(L)(E)(D), RUMBALD, etc. Spelling of names was not consistent prior to the start of teh 20th century so it is important to consider variants.



From My 2nd great grandmother, Jane Rumball's sister Elizabeth Ann Williams Maceroni's grandson Wilfrid Bernard Vaillant, Cleric, who is the Family Historian who compiled all the data and hired the pros

I am picking at detail here, but the detail is important - The chap who recorded the information is the person who relayed the information, but he is not the source of the nformation. He must have learned this from somewhere and he should have recorded the source for the information to be valid and useful. In recording a history the general rule is to note down where information was located so that research can be ducplicated by others to estbalish if it is correct, or find out where errors have crept in.



As a family member he might have recorded The death and Burial of Thomas if nothing else, as he has gone into great detail about the rest of the family. The term " left her" is odd.

Divorce was very rare - but marriages did break up and couples going their separate ways was not unusual.



Answer: I looked, at that Url and did find a William Samual Rumball, Coachmaker up for orders 28 April 1827.

As before, when any children were baptised, their dad's occupation should be noted in the register


Answer: # 4 looked likely and I have been trying to make up my mind to send for it for some time. I forgot to look at 3 and shall do so.

You can pay online - Wills cost £3.50 each and TNA then sends you a link to download the will and save it to your computer. If you do download a will and have problems reading it, post the URL you were sent here and I'll see if I can read it for you.


Answer: No, but the rest of the Rumball's were buried in a family plot at Kensal Green Cemetery

Do you know if there is a memorial inscription giving any family detail?


Answer Yes, and the Coachmaker was the only one connected to building. Wilfred also made a note that he built warehouses.

Again, does this chap provide you with information on how he knew that this RUMBALL built warehouses?


Thank you so much for the input. If I have done this answer wrong please forgive me. I need to have some lessons, and do a profile. I am Helen and almost 83 yrs. old.
Quester

Nothing wrong at all Helen, as a moderator I can edit things a little so that it clears up formatting - which I have done with your reply. You'll pick things up on these forums as you go along. These forums do not always just povide answers, but often the best threads are where an initial idea is questioned and alternative forms of research are suggested as a means of solving a problem. You are welcome to the forums - good luck with the next 83 years of research!

Fare y'well tergerther