Who ARE all these people?

[Fidgetsmum]

For reasons I won't bother you with, I use 2 programs, FTM2005 and Heritage Family Tree Deluxe.

When I print an Ahnentafel (in either program), despite telling either that I do not want to include the RINs, both still insist on printing them.|computer|

More curiously though, I have today after adding 4 new individuals, previewed an updated Ahnentafel only to find that according to both programs, '60416 is the son of 120,832' :confused: but I only have 865 people (including siblings and grandchildren of siblings in some cases), so who on earth are the other 120,147?

I don't understand.

[Peter Goodey]

There's something to be said for a nice simple freebie like PAF (I've moved on but haven't uninstalled my copy yet). From the PAF help file:

An ahnentafel book starts with a specified individual and lists his or her ancestors. Each individual is numbered according to the following pattern:

The first individual is number 1.
The father's number is calculated by multiplying the child's number by 2.
The mother's number is calculated by multiplying the child's number by 2 and adding 1.

For example, the father of individual number 16 (who is the great-great-grandfather of individual 1) is 32, and the mother is 33.

An ahnentafel book contains up to 32 generations because the numbering system becomes impractical. The number of an individual in the 32nd generation is in the billions.

BUT 120,832 sounds to be equivalent to a lot of generations to me!

[v.wells]

It sounds like you have merged duplicate records in. That is one reason I don't use FTM as the merging business is too complicated. I would view the list of people and delete the duplicates and empty people. Hopefully that will straighten out the system. Unfortunately ahnentafel's like to keep the numbers anyway.

[Mutley]

Similar to what Peter says though I don't understand either.
From FTM 2005 help file.

Ahnentafel ” means “ancestor table,” and an ahnentafel is a special genealogical format that tabulates the ancestry of one individual by generation in text rather than pedigree chart format.
The ahnentafel number is the unique number assigned to each position in an ancestor table. Number one designates the person in the first generation whose descent is being traced. Number 2 designates the individual’s father; 3 designates the mother (the second generation back).
Numbers four through seven designate the grandparents of person number one (the third generation). As the ahnentafel extends by generation, the number of persons doubles.
Because an ahnentafel starts with the individual and moves back through the generations of forebears, the higher the ahnentafel number, the further back in time the person designated.

Either way, it seems you get a lot more than you bargained for:D

[Tederator]

If I had seen all this when I started researching my Family History it would have put me off, so I'm glad I did not see anything like this. I use FTM2008 but there is nothing like that in it and the merging procedure is no problem.

Cheers

Ted.

[ChristineR]

In PAF you can choose not to show the RINs, and even if included, the numbers do not go above the number of people that I have.

An ahnentafel with 10 generations did not even hit the number 1000 with the most prolific line of my tree.

Have you been loading backup copies of your whole tree from one program to another? and thus your database contains multiple unconnected copies of the trees - in which case every time you do so, the RIN numbers will increase as you cannot have duplicate RIN numbers for people in a database.

Christine

[Peter Goodey]

The example quoted ('60416 is the son of 120,832') clearly shows Ahmentafel numbers and not RINs (120,832 is double 60,416).

By definition, see above, a 10 generation ahmentafel number must be less than 1024.

Can Fidgetsmum examine the dodgy Ahmentafel in order to identify where the numbering goes awry?

[Fidgetsmum]

Thanks for the suggestions.

I run two programs because one includes only those things I know are correct and can be backed up by physical evidence, the other is a kind of 'things to check when I retire' program and has information gathered from as yet, unsubstantiated sources, thus it contains up to generation 17 (a birth in 1450), but along with treating the oldest person as 120833, it also gives them the No. 456 - which still isn't right since surely that person should be the 865th?


Generation 17

120832. Stephen17 USMER [455], born abt 1450 in East Sutton, Nr. Maidstone; died 1498 in East Sutton, Nr. Maidstone. He married 120833. Jane ((---)) USMER [456].

Children of Stephen USMER and Jane (---) were as follows:
60416 i John16 USMER [453], born abt 1491 in East Sutton, Nr. Maidstone; died 1558 in East Sutton, Nr. Maidstone. He married Margaret ((---)) USMER [454].

I don't think I've merged files as I run each program totally independently from the other, entering the information separately on each as I go and back-up copies are also saved separately under a different file name.

They both appear to go wrong pretty early on.

My daughter (Generation 1) is the root person, No. 1. Generation 2 = my husband who is No. 2, I'm 3. Then (and I've cut & pasted here, what it says for Generation 3):



Generation 3

4. George Richard3 [this 3 is in superscript] NOYES [67], born 19th Nov 1926; died 30th April, 2003 in Queen Mary's Hospital, Sidcup, son of 8. Harry William NOYES [92] and 9. Sarah Elizabeth (HAMMOCK) NOYES [91]. He married in 17th July, 1948 in St. Johns Church, Welling 5. Dorothy Olive (PLANT) NOYES [68], born 18th May, 1926 in Lambeth; died 10th May 1976, daughter of 10. James Eli PLANT [69] and 11. Olive Dora (GOODE) PLANT [70].

I just need a new, decent program don't I? Suggestions please on a postcard :)

[ChristineR]

Your program would not make a mistake - and I see now how the numbers are clearly Ahnentafel numbers, and you cannot ask to have them not shown - the optional RIN numbers are the ones after the names in square brackets.


The ahnentafel number is the unique number assigned to each position in an ancestor table

You are up to the 17th generation! So, there is nothing wrong with your database numbers after all.
Remember, both your programs do this - and so will every other program.

Christine

edit - and just to see what would happen with PAF, I added another 10 generations to my line - 15th generation is numbered 16384, 16th is 32768, and 17th generation is numbered as 65,536 :D

[Peter Goodey]

Fidgetsmum

Please see the definitions that I and Mutley posted. 120832 is a perfectly feasible Ahmentafel number for the 17th generation. 17th generation numbers start at 64K. 18th generation numbers would start at 128K (K=1024)!

Do not confuse those two numbers. RINs are person IDs and do not change. Ahmentafel numbers are just a way of numbering a table.

Say you find that you've missed out a generation. When you add the missing generation, the existing RIN or ID numbers won't change. But if you generate another Ahmentafel you'll see that everyone earlier than the new generation will have different Ahmentafel numbers.

[Fidgetsmum]

Sometimes, despite it being explained to you in words of one syllable, you just have to wait for the ageing grey matter to catch up. You will, therefore, all be relieved to know that finally, my grey matter has caught up and I'd like to thank you all for your patience while that process took place. Now that it has, of course person No. 120832 has become so blindingly obvious as to be embarrassing. |dunce2|

A line which led back to generation 17 in one instance would, naturally, make provision for those missing 120,000 odd (even though I'm never likely to find them).

It's occasions like these when you wonder if it isn't time to just call for the men in white coats |blush|

Thanks everyone.
F'smum (the dumb one in the corner)