Is she my ancestor?? Sarah Bradford??

[benny1982]

Hi

I am still baffled whether she was my ancestor. Any ideas please?

My ggggrandfather was born William Thomas Coombs in 1828, chr 4 March 1830 at St James, Westminster, the youngest son of George and Sarah Coombs. George was a coachman of 7 Husband Street, Soho.

George and Sarah's eldest child was born Matthew George Coombs in 1812 baptised 1813 at St Botolph Bishopsgate, London City.
I have scoured many Westminster and Marylebone church burial records for Georges burial as I believe that he died before 1841. Reason being, is I suspect Sarah may have had a different name by 1841.

Matthew George Coombs got married in July 1835 and July 1845 at St Mary, Paddington, London and on both weddings a Sarah Bradford was a witness. Matthews son George F Coombs died in 1839 aged 1 and Sarah Bradford was the informant. She gave her address as "11 Carburton Street, St Marylebone" Matthew G Coombs first wife died in April 1845 in White Lion Street, Clerkenwell, just 3 months before his 2nd marriage and the death informant was "Sarah Bradford of 11 Carburton Street, Marylebone" which was nearly 2 miles away.

I looked up Sarah Bradford in the 1841 census at 11 Carburton Street, aged 45 (45 to 49 in reality), not born in county, "Washing" meaning Laundress, and she was a single mother but the thing that intrigues me is she was living with a son William, aged 12, born in same county. His surname was dittoed as Bradford.

The thing is, my ggggrandfather William Coombs would have been 12 at that time also, turning 13 that September. Also in 1841, a James Bradford was living just around the corner from Sarah, similar age, not born in County, married with his son Henry aged 13 and daughter Frances aged 7.

Sarah was 57 in 1848 when admitted to the St Marylebone Workhouse and died in 1851 aged 60 so born c1791. Definately the right age to be Matthew and Williams mother. I cannot find any William Bradford's in the 1851 or 1861 that would fit with the one in 1841 so I suspect that was really William Coombs with Sarah Bradford in 1841???

If she was just a family friend, why would she appear on all those certs?

I know it is a different surname, but could Sarah Bradford be the same Sarah who gave birth to Matthew and William Coombs? For her details to fit so well and for her to have a son with matching age and county of birth to my ancestor, am I onto something here?

Any ideas?

Thanks

Ben

[bumblebee]

Was it Sarah Coombes or Sarah Bradford who died in 1851. Who registered her death? did it say her status?

How do you know she was single on the 1841?

Bumblebee

[benny1982]

Hi

She died as Sarah Bradford in Feb 1851. Her status is not mentioned on the death cert. She died in the Marylebone Workhouse and a fellow inmate registered the death.

She was a laundress in 1841 living with her son William and have not come across reference to her not being single in 1841 census yet.

I'd think with all that evidence, I would be very suprised if she wasnt the Sarah I am looking for.

Ben

[Mutley]

Don't know if it is worth throwing this in your pot.

Free BMD has a marriage of a James Bradford, Islington Sep 1839.
On the same page is a Sarah Campbell 3/160

It is the only marriage I could find for a James Bradford in the area pre 1841.

[bumblebee]

She is obviously someone who is very closely linked with the family, so you theory could be correct. So it would be good to find a marriage for a Sarah Coomb/es to a Bradford.

Do you know what Sarah's maiden name was before she married George? Do you think she reverted to her maiden name?

Bumblebee

[benny1982]

Hi

I can discount the 1839 marriage as on the page was a Matthew Thurlow and I found him on 1841 with wife Sarah in Holborn area with two children with the surname Campbell with them.

I dont think any Sarah Coombs or any Sarah's married a James Bradford at all in that timescale. There was a James Earle Bradford wedding to Sarah reid in Shoreditch in 1835 but I found the couple on 1841 census in Shoreditch. I think the James Bradford living round the corner from my Sarah in 1841 in Marylebone was possibly a brother as he was the widower of Amy Bradford formerly Coleman.

I dont know what Sarah's maiden name was before she wed George Coombs. In 1813 George Coombs was a coachman and they lived at 114 Grays Inn Lane, Holborn but had their firstborn baptised at St Botolph Bishopsgate, 1 mile away in London City.

I have scoured many church registers on the IGI and many that arent on there and cannot locate the marriage of George Coombs to Sarah at all. I have been unable to prove their marriage. Could that be why she used her maiden surname of Bradford?

I forgot to mention that on MG Coombs first wedding in 1835, Sarah Bradford was a witness and so was a James Bradford, who signed with a mark. That doesnt automatically say they were husband and wife though as they could have been brother and sister. I wonder if it was the James Bradford living round the corner from Sarah in 1841 in Marylebone???

With all those details I reckon it is too much of a coincidence for her not to be the mother?

Ben

[Mutley]

I would also say it is too much of a coincidence for her not to be the mother?

You have researched this Ben, many don't, they just grab at what first appears. However, you seemingly have gone up, down and around.

There was a thread recently that may interest you, if you have not already seen it, regarding dealing with conjectured connections.

http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28195&highlight=doubt

I think you will still niggle at this, from time to time, for just a little bit more information to convince yourself.... Good Luck.

[benny1982]

Hi Mutley

Very interesting thread. I have posted a reply on it.

Witnesses at marriages were quite often relatives. But with death certs, I think that 90% of the time, the informant was a relative and if Sarah registered Matthews wife and one of his childs deaths and witnessed his two weddings, I would say she was the mother of Matthew and William Coombs, just she used her maiden name. As said, I have thoroughly researched this. I have already added her to my tree.

It is sad that Sarah ended up in the workhouse and she was there for two years solid before she died. Her reason for admittance was illness.

Ben

[MythicalMarian]

A really great thread, Ben, and I just have one question to ask: Were there other Coombes children of the marriage that you have managed to trace on the censuses? Or were William and Matthew the only two children of this marriage?

[benny1982]

Hi Mythical Marian.

Yes there was two more, Margaret Coombs b1817 and Frederick b1819. They both died in infancy. Maggie aged 2 and Frederick aged 1. It was only Matt and Will that lived to adulthood.

Oh I forgot to say, in the 1830s, Matthew lived not too far from Sarah Bradford and William Coombs as well, just a few streets away in the Marylebone area.

Ben

[MythicalMarian]

Well, you have been very thorough, Ben - and I think you definitely have your mother. If you find out what happened to George, do keep us updated. I wonder if he ran off. I had a similar situation in one of my lines, where man and wife were living separately on a couple of censuses (he was with a fancy piece) and then she reverted to her maiden name when he died and moved in with her brother. Of course, we may be doing poor George an injustice, as he may have died before civil registration.

Whatever you find out, do let us know. This has been a fascinating one.

Good luck.

[benny1982]

George Coombs was born c1790 in London, maybe the Bishopsgate area as him and Sarah baptised Matthew George Coombs at St Botolph Bishopsgate in 1813, yet lived 1 mile away in Grays Inn Lane, Holborn. Hopefully that could be where George was baptised and 1770-1790 registers for that church have not been put on the IGI or online yet.

George's youngest William was baptised at St James Westminster yet when he had his first daughter in 1858, he lived in St Pancras yet went back to Picadilly to baptise his daughter.

Also, Matthew G Coombs used George as a middle name for his children and was down on 1841 census as George so that must have been out of respect for his father George. I think George died but I cannot yet find his burial. He died after March 1830. If he was a coachman, would he have worked outside London at times as I am under the impression he was a stage and a domestic coachman inbetween 1813 and 1830 as his addresses were near horse and carriage depots.

Ben

[benny1982]

Yes, I am adamant that Sarah is the one that I am lookign for. My distant cousin has a strong feeling but isnt fully convinced whereas I am. I dont know why she isnt fully sure as I dont believe in major coincidences. And there are too many "Coincidences" for her not to be the right Sarah.

If she registered Matthew Coombs sons death and his wife's and witnessed his two weddings and had a son with matching details to Matthews younger brother and was old enough to be the mum and the same name, then she is the right ancestor.

Normally the informant on death certs were relations? Sometimes a neighbour or friend but if the deceased had family then it was usually a relative.

Ben