Barratt or Barrett Family

[kimmy]

Hi to everyone,

I am very new to this and not getting very far!

I am looking for the above Edward James Barrett or Barratt born 1863 and died in India 1935. He was married to Elizabeth Wells but I have no further info. I think I have found them in the 1891 Census but cannot read it properly. Can anybody help? Thank you. Kimmy.

[Procat]

Hi Kimmy,

There are a lot of people here willing to help but you really need to provide as much information as possible.

For example, if you think you have found them in the 1891 census but are having trouble reading the entry post the details from that - such as where they were in that census. The Ancestry web site sometimes has clearer images than some of the CD images and also lists the place so that helps in interpretating entires (though they are not always correct and not all places have been indexed and scanned as yet).

If you have the year of birth do you also have the place or an idea of what it might be. Even the county assists.

Also, a general forum such as this one may not be the best place to post. Try posting in the county that you think they were born or lived in.

Regards,

[Geoffers]

I am looking for the above Edward James Barrett or Barratt born 1863 and died in India 1935. He was married to Elizabeth Wells but I have no further info. I think I have found them in the 1891 Census but cannot read it properly. Can anybody help? Thank you. Kimmy.
Hello Kimmy
Everything that Procat has written - plus - do you have the marriage certificate for Edward BARRETT and Elizabeth WELLS? If so, does this mention their fathers' and their occupations? This may help to identify them on the 1901 and 1881 census.

If they were still in the UK in 1901, the online census index records 16 Edward Barr(a/e)tts born within 1 year of 1863. Are any of these similar?

Edward Barrett, 37,Herefordsh Munsley, Hereford Colwall, Farmer
Edward Barrett, 37, Hunts Gt Gidding, Northamptonshire, Oundle Labourer ...
Edward Barrett, 37, London Battersea, London Battersea, Coal Porter
Edward Barrett, 37, London Haggerston, London St George, The Martyr Private Royal ...
Edward Barrett, 38, Hants Portsmouth, Southampton Portsmout, Dockyard Labourer Joiners Dept
Edward Barrett, 38, London, London St Marylebone Boot, Closer
Edward Barrett, 38, Middx Bishopsgate, London Hackney, Hat & Cap Maker
Edward Barrett, 38, Wilts Highworth, Bristol Bristol, Confection & Greengrocer Shop Keeper
Edward Barrett, 39, Kent Rodmersham, Kent Rodmersham, Farm Labourer
Edward Barrett, 39, Lincolnshire Sutton Bridge, Scalby Gateman, At Railway
Edward Barrett, 39, Yorks Kildwick, Yorks Oakworth, Greengrocer
Edward Barratt, 38, Cheshire Seacomb, Cheshire Stalybridge, Labourer At A Cotton Mill
Edward Barratt, 38, Middx New Southgate, Hertford E Barnet, Bricklayer
Edward Barratt, 38, Staffs Tettenhall, Staffordshire Tettenhall, Bricklayer
Edward Barratt, 38, Suton Coldfield, Lancaster West Derby, Dock Clerk
Edward Barratt, 39, Marylebone W, Of London, Labourer

[kimmy]

Thank you very much for your reply and so quickly too.

The reason I have so little information about my g.g. grandfather is because I have very little information to go on other than a photograph of his headstone with his name, d.o.b and death date, I am not entirely sure if the dates are correct - my cousin visited India and was given the photograph but I am waiting for information from his of the contacts he has there and any additional concrete info he can provide. My grandmother died in 1992 and my grandfather DURHAM in 1994. I have managed to find death dates and exact dates of births for them but my Aunt has said that she does not have birth certificates for them - I am becoming rather suspicious of this because they both travelled abroad and would have needed them to obtain passports! My grandfather was born in England so it not a problem when I try to gain his birth cert but where do I start with my grandmother. Her death cert only gives married name. My aunt and siblings took all correspondence after their deaths and my mother has never laid eyes on them. I did know until recently that my cousin found relatives in India through reading old letters, which I have asked for copies of. I have also requested the contact names of relatives he visited in India but have not had a response as yet - he lives in France now so I am communicating via email. I thought that obtaining this information first would save me trips to record offices. I know that my g.g. grandad was married twice and I have been told by another relative that my gran's mum was Elizabeth WELLS but no other information about her or her family. I was told that she died in childbirth in India and assumed she was his second wife but what does not add up is that my gran looked anglo-india and so did her sister and niece but how can that be if my g.g. grandad was British, white and she was british white - where does the indian come from. I feel that a secret is being kept somewhere and one of the reason I am having difficulty getting this information from my aunt. The relatives my cousin met in India all look indian too but I was told my gran's brother married an anglo-indian? It's all very confusing isn't it? I always understood that g.g. grandfather was an official for British schools and lived a very comfortable lifestyle. Getting back to the census RG12/104, which states they were residing in Villier Rd, Willesden, London - not very far from where live now and that he was born in Warwickshire, Rugby - again cannot be sure it is definitely him. His wife's details of occupation or place of birth are not illegible. His occupation is listed as a Lectgraphist from what i can decipher - I am trying to research what that would have meant if I have the correct spelling. I am using the information of Edward Bartaining this information first would save me trips to record offices. I know that my g.g. grandad was married twice and I have been told by another relative that my gran's mum was Elizabeth WELLS but no other information about her or her family. I was told that she died in childbirth in India and assumed she was his second wife but what does not add up is that my gran looked anglo-india and so did her sister and niece but how can that be if my g.g. grandad was British, white and she was british white - where does the indian come from. I feel that a secret is being kept somewhere and one of the reason I am having difficulty getting this information from my aunt. The relatives my cousin met in India all look indian too but I was told my gran's brother married an anglo-indian? It's all very confusing isn't it? I always understood that g.g. grandfather was an official for British schools and lived a very comfortable lifestyle. Getting back to the census RG12/104, which states they were residing in Villier Rd, Willesden, London - not very far from where live now and that he was born in Warwickshire, Rugby - again cannot be sure it is definitely him. His wife's details of occupation or place of birth are not illegible. His occupation is listed as a Lectgraphist from what i can decipher - I am trying to research what that would have meant if I have the correct spelling. I am using the information of Edward Bartaining this information first would save me trips to record offices. I know that my g.g. grandad was married twice and I have been told by another relative that my gran's mum was Elizabeth WELLS but no other information about her or her family. I was told that she died in childbirth in India and assumed she was his second wife but what does not add up is that my gran looked anglo-india and so did her sister and niece but how can that be if my g.g. grandad was British, white and she was british white - where does the indian come from. I feel that a secret is being kept somewhere and one of the reason I am having difficulty getting this information from my aunt. The relatives my cousin met in India all look indian too but I was told my gran's brother married an anglo-indian? It's all very confusing isn't it? I always understood that g.g. grandfather was an official for British schools and lived a very comfortable lifestyle. Getting back to the census RG12/104, which states they were residing in Villier Rd, Willesden, London - not very far from where live now and that he was born in Warwickshire, Rugby - again cannot be sure it is definitely him. His wife's details of occupation or place of birth are not illegible. His occupation is listed as a Lectgraphist from what i can decipher - I am trying to research what that would have meant if I have the correct spelling. I am using the information of Edward Bartaining this information first would save me trips to record offices. I know that my g.g. grandad was married twice and I have been told by another relative that my gran's mum was Elizabeth WELLS but no other information about her or her family. I was told that she died in childbirth in India and assumed she was his second wife but what does not add up is that my gran looked anglo-india and so did her sister and niece but how can that be if my g.g. grandad was British, white and she was british white - where does the indian come from. I feel that a secret is being kept somewhere and one of the reason I am having difficulty getting this information from my aunt. The relatives my cousin met in India all look indian too but I was told my gran's brother married an anglo-indian? It's all very confusing isn't it? I always understood that g.g. grandfather was an official for British schools and lived a very comfortable lifestyle. Getting back to the census RG12/104, which states they were residing in Villier Rd, Willesden, London - not very far from where live now and that he was born in Warwickshire, Rugby - again cannot be sure it is definitely him. His wife's details of occupation or place of birth are not illegible. His occupation is listed as a Lectgraphist from what i can decipher - I am trying to research what that would have meant if I have the correct spelling. I am using the information of Edward Barrett b.1963 d.1935.

If anyone can point me in the right direction as it does not look like I am going to get far with my family.

Thank you so much, any help is really appreciated.

Kimmy.

[Pam Downes]

Hi Kimmy,

If you see this message in time, and can do so, either watch, or preferably video 'Who do you think you are' literally this morning, Thurs 23rd, BBC2, 10.50a.m. about Meera Syal trying to trace her ancestors in India. Some of the info may or may not come in useful at a later date.
Alternatively the main point about BMD for Indians in India can be found at
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/familyhistory/wdytya_celeb_gallery_09.shtml

Pam Downes

[kimmy]

Hi Pam, thank you for getting back so quickly - I hope I am replying correctly to your response. I have watched those programmes with great interest and anticipation for help, especially as she was going to India to obtain family history. Unfortunately she was looking for family much later than mine were there and is lucky enough to have her family supporting her and feeding her all the information she needs. Most of the family she was researching are all listed in one place going back many years. Sadly I do not even have access to my Grandmothers birth certificate - that has suddenly vanished! I feel inspired already from being apart of this forum so will get there in the end. Thanks again. Kim.

[Geoffers]

Part 1 of 3.....

Hello Kimmy
I've gone through your message and picked out what seem to be the relevant bits - at least to begin with........

[about my g.g. grandfather....I have a photograph of his headstone with his name, d.o.b and death date, I am not entirely sure if the dates are correct]

First thing to do here would be to check the index to wills. A will for India may be locates in one of two places. You can the index at the Family Records Centre (FRC), Myddelton Street, London - it has a website which you may like to look at first http://www.familyrecords.gov.uk/frc/default.htm
Copies of the wills index are also on microfilm at many Local Studies' Libraries and County Record Offices. Using a reference in the index, you can apply for a copy of the will. Start looking for a will in the year someone is thought to have died and check several years after death (in case will was contested).

The will may also be in the Oriental and India Office Library (see part 3, below)

Also, look for a record of the death which you may find in The National Archives (TNA) at Kew. Births and Deaths records in the Indian States are in a several different document classes (a 'class' is just another name for a file).

For Srinagar (deaths 1926-47) look in document class RG33/159
For most other states look in RG33/90-113
(Army births and deaths will be elsewhere)

Some Indian births will be in RG33/157-159
continued......

[Procat]

Hi Kimmy,

Hmm, difficult.

Based on what you have:

1901 census

Source information: RG13/1226
Registration district: Hendon
Sub-registration district: Willesden
ED, institution, or vessel: 68
Folio: 7
Page: 6
Household schedule number: 39

Edward John Barrett 37 B Rugby
Elizabeth Barrett 38 B Rugby
Grace Olive Catherine Barrett 10 B Willesden
Reginald Geo Edward Barrett 7 B Willesden

I can email the image if you wish

1891 census can not find him but not all indexed on Ancestry yet

1881 census:

Source information: RG11/3078
Registration district: Rugby
Sub-registration district: Rugby
ED, institution, or vessel: 21
Folio: 57
Page: 43

23 Arnold Street
Edward J R Barratt Boarder, Unmarried, Age 17, Born Rugby, Warwickshire, Occupation Solicitors General Clerk

Living with Thomas Gardner and his wife Elizabeth

(You can check the 1881 census index for free at: http://www.familysearch.org/ )

1871 census:

Source information: RG10/3185
Registration district: Rugby
Sub-registration district: Rugby
ED, institution, or vessel: 22
Folio: 80
Page: 13
Household schedule number: 58

Railway Terrace
Samuel Barratt Head 33 Born Stanmore Middlesex, Sorter Trewelling Post Office
Jane Barratt Wife 30 Born Malberton, Sussex
Edward J R Barratt 7 Born Rugby, Scholar

I can email the 1871 image if you wish.

[Geoffers]

continued.......
Part 2 of 3

[My grandmother died in 1992 and my grandfather DURHAM in 1994. I have managed to find death dates and exact dates of births for them but my Aunt has said that she does not have birth certificates for them]
These are names you haven't mentioned before. Were they born/died in the UK or elsewhere? For British birth certificates, you will need to check the General Register Office (GRO) index of births - this is also available at the FRC in London, and Local Studies Libraries, and online at a pay-per-view site 1837 online.

[I am becoming rather suspicious of this because they both travelled abroad and would have needed them to obtain passports!]
It depends when they travelled abroad, passports were not common prior to WW1.

There are records of passports issued at TNA in Kew (up to 1945 they are in document class FO610). But these give very little information
[My grandfather was born in England so it not a problem when I try to gain his birth cert but where do I start with my grandmother.]

If they had children in England obtain a birth certificate for one/all of them. This will record the mother's maiden name and so make it easier to find the relevant marriage certificate. If they had children in India then see the information on TNA, above.


continued......

[Geoffers]

[I always understood that g.g. grandfather was an official for British schools and lived a very comfortable lifestyle.]

You are likely to find most useful information and records relating to your family in India at

The British Library Oriental and India Office Collections
96, Euston Road
London
NW1 2DB
www.bl.uk/collections/oriental (http://www.bl.uk/collections/oriental)

This houses many wills, and also records of baptism, marriage and burial in India. If you had/have family out there you will find a record relating to them.

Also, lots of people are willing to help, but large blocks of text are difficult to to read and can put people off. Remember that those who may want to help probably know nothing of your family - treat us like idiots ;) and give full names, dates and places of birth. Names and relationships are then easier to understand. Please don't take this as an adverse criticism, more advice on how best to advertise what you want to find out.

Happy Christmas
Geoffers

[Procat]

Kimmy,

1901 census has him as a telegraphist.

Free BMD records:

Marriages Dec 1888
ADAMS Richard Albert Nottingham 7b 451
BARRATT Edward John R Nottingham 7b 451
CAVE Elizabeth Nottingham 7b 451
HOLMES Louisa Emily F Nottingham 7b 451

but these may not be yours.

You could try searching Free BMD for more information.

Regards,

[kimmy]

Please accept my apologies for the novel - I am still learning. Thank you for your guidance.