Marriage Witnesses

[mfwebb]

Don't ignore marriage witnesses in your research, like I have largely done for many years. They can give you the answer to a question which has been eluding you for a long time.

Yesterday, I decided to look at the witnesses to the marriage of my ggm Ann Betts (who was Catherine Webb, a widow) when she married her second husband Thomas Goodman. The witnesses were Richard and Hannah Cleaver.

In the 1851 census the Cleavers were living 2 doors away from Thomas and Catherine Goodman in Hillmorton Warwickshire. Hannah Cleaver was 33 years old and born in Wroxton Oxfordshire. My ggm Ann Betts was born in Wroxton OXF and she had a sister Hannah born in 1817. It didn't take me long to find the marriage of Richard Cleaver and Hannah Betts.

This answered the question which had been eluding me for some time -- what was the connection between Houghton Conquest BDF (where my great grandparents lived and were married in 1843 and had a son) and Hillmorton WAR where my ggm settled and remarried in 1846? They (or she and her 2 year old child) moved to be near, or even live with, her elder sister.

In the 1841 census, Richard and Hannah Cleaver were living next door to the Goodman family, which included a 15 year old Thomas Goodman who went on to marry my ggm in 1846. So she married "the boy next door".

All I need to know now is what happened to ggf John Webb who should have died somewhere during 1844 or 1845 if Ann/Catherine was truly a widow when she married Thomas Goodman in 1846.

My search continues.

[LynA]

I agree witnesses can be very useful and always make a note of them, even if it can sometimes be very frustrating not to know if the John Smith witness is the groom's father or brother of the same name.

Another problem can be the red herring of unconnected witnesses. One of my ancestors was the church sexton and witnessed many marriages because of this.
It is worth looking at the whole page of marriages to see if the witness keeps reappearing.

Regards,
Lynda :)

[janbooth]

Well done Malcolm - at least you have solved most of your problem. Now are you any good at solving my problem of which John SMITH, son of John, son of John is mine - very big grin!!

Janet

[Devonmade]

I agree about witnesses, also death informants, I have a relative who's death informant was his sister in law. Regarding marriage witnesses I have one little puzzle regarding a Williams marriage. The groom was Thomas but one of the witnesses was Albert Williams and I have no record of him in the immediate family.

Sue

[mfwebb]

Well done Malcolm - at least you have solved most of your problem. Now are you any good at solving my problem of which John SMITH, son of John, son of John is mine - very big grin!!

Janet

Can't help you there Janet I'm afraid. I know that my name WEBB is by no means as common as SMITH but John WEBB is a common combination and is widespread throughout the UK. In my search for the death of John WEBB in 1844 or 1845 there are now 83 possibilites left -- and that is after eliminating the 3 obvious ones at a cost of £21.

I understand your frustrations though as my wife has the same problem as you in trying to sort out which Thomas Worstenholme is which in her tree. Her father and grandfather were both Thomas W and both had children named Thomas W. Other children also named their children Thomas W and there are several Thomas W's in the family to different fathers born at about the same time. And, of course, there are many spelling variables for Worstenholme.:D

We just have to keep on searching and checking and eliminating until we get to the right one. That's the beauty of our hobby -- isn't it??

[jeanettemarie]

Don't ignore marriage witnesses in your research, like I have largely done for many years. They can give you the answer to a question which has been eluding you for a long time.

I agree I am at present trawling through the parish register for Ballyshannon, and it seems most of my relatives were witnesses to quite a few weddings and Baptisms so I have been able to tie some down, and the best part of the Irish registers is it also gives little notes in the margins as to who they married and where, and sometimes when they died and where they are buried.
Make notes of everything. I do
Jeanette

[yorkshirecath]

What a fabulous idea and a very useful tip!
I'll be off to look at my marriage certs now!!

[uksearch]

Around these parts many of the major churches used serial witnesses. In the case of the Collegiate & Parish Church of Manchester, later Manchester Cathedral it had to been done in order to speed up the marriage process. Mass marriages were quite common at this church...20 or 30 couples at a time.

Another point about witnesses, they were not limited to two, three or four. Take a look at what I think takes the biscuit.

UK

http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9381&page=10

[Mutley]

I had a witness to my gggrandparents wedding. I followed him through the census, I know all about him, his wife, his children etc far more than I know about my gggrandparents.

By the way, his occupation was a gardener ;) I now think mine grabbed him to be a witness while he was working in the vestry garden and they never knew of him before or after :)