Annie Humphreys born 1859 +/-3 Wales!

[Degan]

One of my great grandmothers was Annie Humphreys and I am confident with my research from her marriage (in 1883) to her death (in 1937) which were both in Southport.
The 1891 and 1901 census both state born in Wales and from various other sources she was born anytime between 1856 and 1862.
Her marriage cert says her father was Richard Humphreys a quarryman.
I've looked at the 1881 census using the date range and name variants and there are 27 still in Wales and 8 in England. However as she was married in October 1883 in Southport, I was drawn to the only entry in Southport.
This Annie was born in Bala Merioneth in about 1856, but I have not been able to find a birth certificate to match that. I know that she was not able to write (my mother wrote letters for her) so wonder if between her and an English enumerator they came up with Bala as being an easy place. (I think this may be me clutching at straws).
The only birth certificate I have found so far was in 1854 at Pentre Llansantffraid Glyn Ceiriog as Ann the daughter of Richard a blacksmith and Elizabeth (nee Evans), but I am not convinced it's the right one.
Just in case it is the right one I have found Richard in various census.
1841 - Llansantffraid Glyn Ceiriog
Richard Humphreys - age 30 - not born in county - with his parents Roger and Ann
1851 Llansantffraid Glyn Ceiriog
Richard 42 - blacksmith - born Llansantffraid Denbigh
Elizabeth 23 - wife - born Corwen Merioneth
John - son 6 months - born Llansantffraid Denbigh
1861 Below Lavar Glyn Ceiriog
Richard 52 - blacksmith - born Newcastle under Lyme
Elizabeth wife 32 - and children John (10), Elizabeth (8),Ann (7), Sarah (5)
1871 Smithy Llansantffraid Glyn Ceiriog
Richard 62, Elizabeth 42, son John 20
1881 Royal Oak Cottage Llansantffraid Glyn Ceriog
Richard 73 retired blacksmith - Elizabeth 52

Apart from buying all the Welsh birth certificates (which I can't afford) has anyone any clues as to how to pin her down? Her husband was John Rimmer and they had three sons (their daughter was my grandmother and one son was killed in 1918). I believe that the two sons remained in Southport so I have posted a message on a forum that only deals with the Southport area to see if anyone there has any links with Annie. I know she was living with a son and daughter-in-law when she died.

I understand she was a Baptist and her daughter was married in a Baptist Church.

Thanks for your time
Degan

[Davran]

As you have the marriage cert, giving her father as Richard, have you looked for him in 1881? If it gives her age at marriage you could add 20-30 years for Richard's age and see what you come up with. Also, did she have any siblings with more uncommon names, who could be picked out more easily from the censuses?

[giveover]

Hello,

There is a John and Annie Rimmer on the 1891 census.

Civil Parish: North Meols
Ecclesiastical Parish: St Cuthbert
County: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration District: Ormskirk
Sub Reg. District: North Meols

101 Milton Street

John Rimmer Head M 41 laborer (general) Churchtown
Annie wife m 35 Wales
Alice Thersa dau 7 Lancashire, Birkdale
William son 5 ..
John Richard son 11 months ..

Class RG12 piece 3039 folio 158 page 11.

Could this be them?

I haven't searched other census years yet.


Anne

[giveover]

Hello


Sorry, blame it on the fact I was up at 5 a.m for work.


See you already have 1891 and 1901 for the family.


Anne

[Degan]

Firstly thanks to all who have read my posting, particularly to those who reply with help and suggestions.

I have had a look in the 1881 census for Richard as you suggested Davran.
There are 141 born between 1800 and 1840 in Wales or England and living in Wales or England. There were only four who were slate miners or quarryman (how I wish my ancestor had been the law writer and bird stuffer).
They were
1 - Richard born 1816 born and living in Shropshire with a wife and granddaughter
2 - Richard born 1828 that had a young daughter Ann
3 - Richard born 1838 in Treflys Caernarvon and living Ynyscynhaiarn Caernarvon with wife Jane and three teenage children
4 - Richard born 1840 born and living in Beddgelert Merioneth with his wife Mary and daughter Mary who was 8
I don't feel that number 1 would have a daughter born in Wales, number 2 had a daughter Ann, number 4 seemed a bit too young (although she could have been a second wife and Richard had a new young family) so I am left with number 3 as a possibility.
Neither of the places in Caernarvon are in my atlas, but are they too far away from Bala? Or do you think Bala is just a red herring.
Perhaps I'll have to wait for the 1911 census and hope she gave a really good birth place!
Regards

[GRHughes]

Hi Degan,

Found some info on Ynyscynhaiarn and Treflys. Admittedly I did find it via some digging on google, so to be taken with a pinch a salt.

TREFLYS
Had to just sift through google listings for this one as there is also a Treflys in Powys:

Treflys Properties: Property for Sale in Treflys, Porthmadog, Gwynedd

YNYSCYNHAIARN
Highlighted gazetteer entry
In 1870-72, John Marius Wilson's Imperial Gazetteer of England and Wales described Ynyscynhaiarn like this:

"YNYSCYNHAIARN, a parish in the district of Festiniog and county of Carnarvon; on the coast, around Portmadoc r. station. It contains Portmadoc and Tremadoc, which have post-offices under Carnarvon. Acres, 6,546; of which 1,200 are water. Real property, £7,421. Pop. in 1851, 2,347; in 1861, 3,138. Houses, 596. The increase of pop. arose from extension of the slate-carrying trade at Portmadoc. The property is not much divided. The living is a p. curacy, annexed to Criccieth-The church is modern."

Taken from: http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/place/place_page.jsp?p_id=1145

Also, this site provides a map of Ynyscynhaiarn district (see attached link)

http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/bound_map_page.jsp?first=true&u_id=10412808&c_id=10001043

Treflys (Porthmadog) would therefore appear to be in Ynyscynhaiarn district.

Porthmadog and Bala are approximately 30 miles from each other according to aa autoroute. However, I think you'd have to cross through Snowdonia national park to get from one to the other so I don't think it would be an afternoon stroll:P

Hope this helps.