How do I know if this was my Granddad

[anne.o'connor]

Hello
I am new to this site and have been guided to it by a very helpful gentleman. I have found out lots about 3 of my grandparents but my Granddad is proving very elusive. I know he was lived in Liverpool and we have always been told that his parents died of the 'flu when he was 13. His elder siblings argued about who was to have him (he was 13) and so he ran away from home. He did various things like worked on the Mersey ferry but joined the army for the Boer War. We understand that he was a despatch rider. We were also told that he rode on Southport beach as part of his training and that is where Mr Gregory came in following a plea for help to a Southport newspaper. Mr Gregory recommended this site as this is where the real experts are. Can anyone tell me anything else about what we have been told. As i say we know he was a despatch rider - he and a colleague were shot, My Granddad's horse was shot dead as was his colleague. He was picked up by Canadian Doctors but when he was taken to hospital they found out that he was only 15 and was therefore discharged. My granddad suffered all of his life from the injuries to his leg during the war so I'm sure this really happened. Mr Gregory found a Harry May with a record number 28856 - unlisted (I'm not sure what that means) with the Imp Yeomanry so I don't know if this is my Granddad or not. The thing is I think Harry may not be his real name as there is no record of his birth that ties up with this story. We were told he was born in 1881 but that would mean that he was 18 at the time of the Boer War and the only Henry May born and living in Liverpool at that time was still at home with his parents in 1901. he is the only one that we cannot research- the problem is even my Grandmother called him the mystery man as he would not talk about his past other than what I have told you above. I have tried asking general advice from museums or military regiments but they just say they don't deal with individual queries.

[Jan1954]

Hello Anne and welcome to Brit-Gen |wave|

Now, the first thing to do is to start with what you do know and start on the ponderables later.

So, first a couple of questions for which answers are needed:

~ Do you have your grandfather's death certificate. This should provide his age when he died.
~ Do you have your grandparents' marriage certificate. This should provide the ages of both of them (unless it just states "of full age"). Then check that the 2 ages for your grandfather match up.

Once you have these definites, it will give you a better idea of his year of birth.

~ Did he have a middle name? (To help eliminate other Harry/Henry Mays)

Remember, some boys were christened Harry rather than Henry, although Harry can be a derivative.

If you don't have the certificates, they can be ordered online here:

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

It's best if you have the references. If you have problems locating these, let us know the dates of the death and the marriage (or the maiden name of your grandmother) and people on the forum will have a rummage for you.

I'm sure that we will be able to help you find some answers.

[Alan Welsford]

Hi Anne,

A warm welcome to the forum.

A fascinating story, indeed!

To go back to basics, do you have the marriage certificate for Harry MAY and your grandmother ?

This will provide the first vital clues, and should give his age, (or at least the one he supplied), his occupation, and (unless you are unlucky), details of his father.

Armed with that information, trying to trace him backwards becomes a better prospect, whether trying to find him in a 1901 census, or locate his birth registration.

If you have the certificate, can you post all the information on it.

If you haven't yet obtained it, and would like help trying to identify it, can you please supply also your grandmother's maiden name, and your best guess at when and where they might have married.

Alan

Oh bums!

Once again Jan pips me to the post. I was keeping it simple - yes information about age from a death certificate could also be vital! (I'll win one soon, Jan!).

[Jan1954]

Oh bums!

Once again Jan pips me to the post. I was keeping it simple - yes information about age from a death certificate could also be vital! (I'll win one soon, Jan!).

I'm sure that it will end up as teamwork once again, Alan. :D

[Alan Welsford]

I'm sure that it will end up as teamwork once again, Alan. :D
You are just trying to lull me into a false sense of security, before you leap on the next one, aren't you. ;)

[Jan1954]

You are just trying to lull me into a false sense of security, before you leap on the next one, aren't you. ;)

No - I'm back at work this week (after a week off) so only evenings are available. :o

[anne.o'connor]

Hello
Many thanks for your advice so far. I can obtain my Granddad's death certificate but think his age is based only on what his family thought - would they have to produce his birth certificate? There is only my uncle left now and he is 82 so I have to be careful about how much we talk about it as he gets very emotional. he still lives in the house that the family moved into when he was 6 months old but I can't really ask to search their papers. I can't find their marriage certificate, my grandmother's name was Beatrice Clark but I have searched the records from 1900 to 1912 and cannot find a match for May and Clark (many hours believe me). uncle Ron doesn't know when or where they married. I know that they moved to Castleblaney in Ireland (Granddad was a photographer, capturing images of the stately homes and staff etc) and they had a son William Edward Blaney who was born prematurely, they cam back to Sheffield, where my Grandmother's parents lived and the baby died there in June 1911. They could have been married anywhere - I know they met in Blackpool as my Granddad used to take photos of people on the prom.. that is how he met Grandma by wading into the sea to take her photo. So I can't find the marriage certificate, I'm not sure if the death certificate age is correct and I'm not 100% sure if his first name was Henry as they started a family bible and above my Granddad's name is William added in. My cosuin says her Dad (Uncle George ) said that Granddad was born in Ireland but Uncle Ron thinks there is an irish connection and that the surname was anglicised but he doesn't think he was born in Ireland. there is a May family with a wife and husband dying in 1897 (so the date ties in with 1884 DOB) but the husband died of a stroke and the wife died a few weeks later of an asthma attack. The husband had 5 or 6 children from his first marriage so I thought maybe Granddad was a product of this 2nd marriage but there is no record of him, even under the wife's maiden name. I've been on this one for 3 years now and am really stuck.

[Alan Welsford]

Hi Anne,

Well if you have been 3 years on the case, it may take a while for us to add very much useful. :o

I may have missed it, but I'm not sure if I've picked up on whether this is your dad or your mum's father. (Sorry if it's in there somewhere).

Could you please say which, and assuming you have access to their birth certificate, by what name Harry went on there. Also where were was your parent born ?

You seemed comfortable with all your other grandparents. Did Beatrice CLARK have more than one forename, or any other way she might have been recorded ? When and where was she born, please ?

(Note as we are into the 20th century with this one, so please don't post any details of anyone still living - except yourself, of course!).

Alan

[anne.o'connor]

Hello
I think the waters are very murky.. Granddad was my Dad's Dad.. I can find my Grandma's family as all the family match but I think my Grandma was in service in 1901 away from home. I can't find the Clarks in 1891 for any of the family (grandma was one of 10) and the only Beatrice Clark born when I think Grandma was born has a different parentage (I obtained the Birth Certificate) I have gone through the Birth database for 1884-1886 for Grandma but can't find her even under a different first name. On my Dad's birth certificate they are called Harry and Beatrice. Do you think I'm not meant to find them? I was anticipating the 1911 census but now I think that they were probably in Ireland as Baby Blaney was born around March 1911 and they came back to England just prior to his death in June 1911. I have my Dad's birth certificate - he was born in Wales. The trouble is Granddad seemed to mvoe all around the country, Aunty Edna was born in West Derby, Dad, Uncle Bob and Uncle Georg all born in wales and Uncle Ron ( the youngest) was born in Blackpool. It was only when they came to Chesterfield that they seemed to put down roots. I am going to the Who Do You Think You Are show in London so maybe the service record number that Mr Gregory found for me might help there.

[Jan1954]

Hello Anne,

Thanks for the information in the PM.

I've just found the death registration for your grandmother:

Beatrice May, aged 80, 1965, December quarter, Vol 3a, page 136.

So, she was probably born in 1885. I'll have a rummage and see if I can find anything more.

So, looking to confirm the birth of Beatrice Clark(e) around 1885.

[anne.o'connor]

Thanks Jan for your help.

I see what you mean about my emails - they are just a big lump aren't they. I think it's because I'm tring to get it all out after trying to do it on my own for so long, I can see the blanks looks from my family when I talk about it. The most frustrating thing for me is that 1891 census contains no info at all for my Grandma's family.
As I say there were 10 children and quite a few were born by that time but not one of them are to be found.
I think the page that they were on was not scanned but it feels like a conspiracy to pin down my Grandma for the year of birth or even if her first name was different to what she was known. I know her daughter, Aunty edna was christened Beatrice but I didn't even know that until her obituary.

Do you know if birth certificates had to be produced when you registered some one's death? Because then i know that the papers are some where.

uncle Ron says Uncle George took a lot of papers down south when whe married but Uncle George's daughter says that she doesn't have any.. although she does have a will somewhere.

[Jan1954]

Do you know if birth certificates had to be produced when you registered some one's death? Because then i know that the papers are some where.


As far as I'm aware, a doctor's certificate/coroner's order confirming the death is all that is needed. Hence, some deaths can be registered with rather iffy ages on them - an estimate if the actual age is not known. (I have a couple of these in my tree...)

[Joanna1]

Try the Southport churches he may have been know there when he was there. What an adventurous family you have. Joanna