X otherwise known as Y

[MythicalMarian]

Could I please get everyone's input into the likely reasons someone is listed in a baptismal register as X otherwise Y. For instance, in Ashton-under-Lyne, St. Michael's PRs there are a run of baptisms to a chap named 'John TURNER otherwise LINNEY' (mid-late 18th century). Now, as I am researching TURNER in these very registers, the entries may turn out to be of use. The chap is even buried under this soubriquet, although there does not seem to be a marriage for him in those particular registers.

I had thought that perhaps the chap was the offspring of an unmarried couple - but would this tag be given him throughout his entire parish register life?

Does anyone have any ideas at all? Have you come across this before?

[Alan Welsford]

Interesting, I have seen similar, but not for names of interest to me.

Do the baptism records just say

"child of John TURNER otherwise LINNEY"

or is a wife also mentioned.

If so, how is it laid out

for example

"child of John & Mary TURNER otherwise LINNEY"

or

"child of John TURNER otherwise LINNEY, and Mary his wife".

Not sure I can answer it, but curious :o

[Geoffers]

in Ashton-under-Lyne, St. Michael's PRs there are a run of baptisms to a chap named 'John TURNER otherwise LINNEY' (mid-late 18th century). Does anyone have any ideas at all? Have you come across this before?

In working through and indexing registers for about 50 parishes in NE Norfolk, it is something that I have come across on occasion. it doesn't happen a lot. I have seen it written in two forms:

'X alias Y' and 'X otherwise Y'

The alias entries do not always have an obvious reason - e.g. illegitimacy (at least not in that generation, there may have been illegitimacy earlier). Earlier entries (17th century) seem to record 'alias' more than 18th century entries. I suspect one alias entry is the result of an illegitimate birth where the alias is the name of a father who did not want to be associated with the child.

The 'otherwise' entries seem mostly to be as a result of illegitimacy; other reasons seem to be dad having died early, mum remarried and child grew up with both names - these seem mostly (but not always) to record the natural surname first and adoptive name second. I have found one case of a person being adopted by someone else who does not appear to have been related.

[AnnB]

One instance I have come across is where a person who had no children, left his estate to a relative with a different surname. There doesn't seem to have been any proviso for the person who received the inheritance to change his name, but after being known for a while as X otherwise Y, he eventually dropped his inherited surname in favour of that of his benefactor.

Best wishes
Ann

[MythicalMarian]

Alan - I'll not quote the dates of birth etc. for the sake of brevity here, but the entries go:

1758 - Robert the son of John Turner otherwise Linney, feltmaker
1759 - Ann daughter of John Turner otherwise Linney of Denton, feltmaker
1760 - Lydia daughter of John Turner otherwise Linney of Denton, feltmaker

then we get a run of baps for a John Turner of Denton - also a feltmaker - who may or may not be the 'Linney' man, as he's just 'John Turner of Denton, feltmaker' (But it's so common a name and there a few families around in the registers, so we daren't assume too much)

to continue:

1772 - Mary daughter of John Turner otherwise Linney of Denton, feltmaker
1774 - Hannah daughter of John Turner otherwise Linney of Breadbury [sic], feltmaker
1776 - Nancy daughter of John Turner otherwise Linney of Breadbury, feltmaker

In the Burials:

1759 - Robert son of John Turner otherwise Linney of Denton
1778 - John Turner otherwise Linney of Breadbury buried June 29th.

No mention of a wife anywhere. Why I'm curious about these entries is that this Turner/Linney chap had a daughter Lydia - a bit less common a name - and my known 4xgreat grandfather called his eldest daughter Lydia. There is another Turner family in the registers who also seem to favour this name for daughters.

I have yet to check out earlier baptisms but the IGI extracted PRs for St. Mike's do show a John Linney born in 1738 to an Elias Linney, but there are also three likely John Turners around the same date!

[Geoffers]

1760 - Lydia daughter of John Turner otherwise Linney of Denton, feltmaker

to continue:

1772 - Mary daughter of John Turner otherwise Linney of Denton, feltmaker


With a gap in baptisms, a question that is then raised is, if these are two generations? - father and son. Are there any baptisms in between where the surname is just recorded as LINN(E)Y?


this Turner/Linney chap had a daughter Lydia - a bit less common a name - and my known 4xgreat grandfather called his eldest daughter Lydia.

The name began to come into fashion from about 1755-60, onwards, but certainly less frequently occurring than ELizabeth, Ann, Mary, Martha.

[greann]

Hi,
I came across this in my own family. The reason for the "otherwise" was because the father was going by an alius last name. So the child was given the alius last name and then the "otherwise" real name.(Francis otherwise Bishop) In my family they all eventually used the "alius" name.

[MythicalMarian]

With a gap in baptisms, a question that is then raised is, if these are two generations? - father and son. Are there any baptisms in between where the surname is just recorded as LINN(E)Y?


Good point, Geoffers - however, there are no Linneys in the 12 year gap when John Turner aka Linney is having children - other than a Daniel Linney baptised in 1770 to a John - true enough - but it seems a bit of a long shot.

I'm at a total loss with these. Oh, and I stupidly said that this was all at St. Mike's Ashton, when in fact it's St. Lawrence Denton. Not that this will matter to you as far as the puzzle goes.

The thing is, I do have a bona fide Linney connection. Ann Linney born circa 1815 in Compstall married my William Ibbotson and these are the parents of my great-great grandfather William Ibbotson, who is in turn the father-in-law of my granddad John Albert Turner! Could all be coincidence, of course, but it's getting a bit 'Royston Vasey' round here....:D

[Alan Welsford]

AS an aside, why are so many military records like the WW1 Service Records are littered with things like John SMITH alias Frederick BROWN ?

I assumed this was generally where someone had assumed a false identity, and probably lied about their age, in order to enlist.

Is that it, or are there other reasons for people having 2 completely different names in those collections, please ?

[Jan1954]

AS an aside, why are so many military records like the WW1 Service Records are littered with things like John SMITH alias Frederick BROWN ?

I assumed this was generally where someone had assumed a false identity, and probably lied about their age, in order to enlist.

Is that it, or are there other reasons for people having 2 completely different names in those collections, please ?

All I know is that a great uncle of mine changed his surname from Goldsmith to Smith after WW1, which has made finding him a nightmare... :(

[christanel]

My father always made the point that his birth father had served in every regiment in the British Army in WW1 and so far I have found 4 alias' for him.
Why oh why is it my branch of the family that harbours the ne'er do wells and fibbers and the only branch that moved away from the rest of the family?
Christina