CLAIM TO 2 CONVICTS

[mjkisxo]

Hi can anyone help me in locating any type of information about the two convicts I have found in my family

1. Samuel RICHARDS native of Monmouthshire tried 1841 sentenced to Life in Tasmania came over on ship DAVID CLARKE

2. Mary DWYER native of Limerick tried 1848 sentenced to 7 years in Tasmania came over on ship MARIA. (widow and 1 child) doesn't state if the child came with her, can't find any other reference to the child.

I would dearly love to trace them back to their families but don't know if I have enough information. Can anyone help please?

thanks karen

[Geoffers]

Hi can anyone help me in locating any type of information about the two convicts I have found in my family
1. Samuel RICHARDS native of Monmouthshire tried 1841 sentenced to Life in Tasmania came over on ship DAVID CLARKE

There will be records which will help in The National Archives (TNA) at Kew - your problem will be accessing them. Some of the records have been copied onto microfilm, are any of these available to you in Australia?

TNA have loads of research guides, two of which are:
Assizes: Criminal Trials (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/rdleaflet.asp?sLeafletID=154)

Convicts and Prisoners (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/rdleaflet.asp?sLeafletID=253)

I don't know what document you have looked at to get the above informaton. Is it this convict transportation register (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATID=-5432220&CATLN=7&Highlight=%2CDAVID%2CCLARKE&accessmethod=0)?

Does this give any information as to where he was held prior to transportation? It should hold his date and place of conviction which will help t narrow things down for you - if you are really lucky it will give his offence? If you have not looked at that document, you can order it online, TNA can send it to you digitally.

Could I ask you to have a browse of the reseach guides first and if you haven't got information from the transportation register, to try that first before getting into more complicated searches.

The same advice applies in looking for Mary Dwyer, for whom things may be more complicated. A powerful tool in searching for information is TNA's online catalogue (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/search.asp) what you can find depends on the type of record, but it is useful to try using it at an early stage. So try a search for yourself as follows:

In the first field, 'wrod or phrase' enter - 'convict ship maria'
In the year range, enter - 1848 - 1852
(prisoners could be held for sometime before tranportation)
In the department or series code enter - HO11

now hit search and see what you get.

The medical journals during transportation can sometimes provide useful informaton, so try repeating the above search, but in the department or series code, enter ADM101

Your person may not be named, but they can provide interesting background information. It's up to you whetehr you think it worthwhile ordering a copy of the journal, but searching gives you extra practice. You can also search for the medical journal for the 'David Clarke'. Try it for yourself and ask if you get stuck.

[mjkisxo]

many thanks Geoffers, the info is at TNA, I actually have their papers sent from Tasmania but Monmouthshire where he was tried I cannot locate it at TNA. Doesn't say where he was jailed prior to leaving for Tasmania but I will keep looking....thanks again Karen

[Geoffers]

I actually have their papers sent from Tasmania but Monmouthshire where he was tried I cannot locate it at TNA.

The papers held at TNA are tricker to locate, they are not individually indexed. Assize courts were arranged in Circuits (areas), Monmouth was in Oxford Circuit. TNA has a key to records held for each court. See this link (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=156) - But note that these are only the document class references. The problem is, of course - although he may have been a native of Monmouthshire, that doesn't necessarily mean that he was convicted there.

TNA also has this guide specifically for transportation ("http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=347)

The next problem is that RICHARDS is a name which occurs quite frequently, which doesn't make things easier. Any rough idea of a year of birth? Anyone of the same surname from Monmouth who were transported on the same ship?

[mjkisxo]

Hi Geoffers,

Papers say he was a native of Chepstow, tried at Monmouth 2 March 1841, Station "Southport", embarked 15th May 1841 age 21 when arrived Tasmania. Father Lewis, Mother Mary, brother Edwin Lewis So I would approx. his birth around 1820. Thanks Karen

[Geoffers]

Papers say he was a native of Chepstow, tried at Monmouth 2 March 1841, Station "Southport", embarked 15th May 1841 age 21 when arrived Tasmania. Father Lewis, Mother Mary, brother Edwin Lewis So I would approx. his birth around 1820. Thanks Karen

Your'e now a long way down the road to tracing his family - you might try searching the 1841 census to see if the parents were then alive and their ages. Better still if any of them lived to the 1851 census, or later.

You might try ordering the film of the parish registers for Chepstow to see if you can locate baptisms, marriages and burials. You may be able to hire film copies of the registers at a mormon church (LDS) record centre.

With a date of trial - you might try TNA to see if they can dig out the indictment from ASSI5 - they will tell you if they can do this and the cost - this would at least give you the offence(s).

The record office covering Monmouthshire may possibly have additional records; what can be found depends on whether their catalogue is online, or if the staff are willing to check their records for you.

[mjkisxo]

I have found Samuel and his brother on the Chepstow Baptisms and also the death of his brother Edwin, but can't seem to locate his parents anywhere.
As for Mary Dwyer because she was a widow I am unsure if it was her maiden name or married name of Dwyer, so I don't really know where to begin with her. I have her parents first names but not their last names. Also listed with her family it is written 21st and 88th regiment. So maybe her husband was killed but as I say was his name Dwyer or something else?. But you have given me places to search and make my inquiries, so many thanks Geoffers.......karen

[Geoffers]

I'm a bit busy today with visiting sister who has got a cheap-day return from Oregon. When I get time, I'll try to think of owt else and update this thread with any suggestions.

[John Nicholas]

Karen,

I looked a bit farther afield and found the following in the Wales 1841 census for Llanelly, Breconshire, HO107 / 1366 /6 folio 26 page 14. Note that this Llanelly is a parish in Breconshire, including Brynmawr, and not to be confused with the industrial town of similar name in Carmarthenshire. I think Brynmawr is now part of Monmouthshire.

Lewis RICHARDS 45 Grinderwheeler Not born in Breconshire
Mary RICHARDS 45 Not born in Breconshire
Daniel RICHARDS 20 Not born in Breconshire
Lewis RICHARDS 11 Not born in Breconshire
Evan RICHARDS 9 Not born in Breconshire
Mary RICHARDS 7 Not born in Breconshire
Josiah JONES 40 Miner Not born in Breconshire
Jane JONES 40 Not born in Breconshire

This is one household, although I imagine the Joneses are lodgers or co-residents. I think Lewis's occupation reads grinderwheeler and I remembered that his occupation in the Chepstow parish records in 1823 was razor grinder - probably the same job! Not conclusive but worth considering.

I have not seen any obvious matches for 1851, which is a pity, as that would give you more on where Lewis and Mary were born.

John

[John Nicholas]

Karen,

I've just noticed in the Wales 1851 census that there was a Lewis RICHARDS in Monmouth County Gaol, married, aged 23, chimney sweep in civvy life, born in Newport, Mon (HO107/2445 f403 p35). Were the Richards boys just born for trouble?

John

[mjkisxo]

Hi John, yes they were definately trouble makers. That is great news that you have found the family, they all seem to tie into the one family. When Samuel Lewis was sent to Tasmania he was in and out of chains...would not conform but eventually did, lost his food and bedding I guess that made him smarten up. Samuel was also a chimney sweep according to his papers when transported. Would Lewis have been tried and sent elsewhere? do you think I have another convict on my hands??? Many thanks for all the info...karen

[mjkisxo]

Sorry I have located a relative of the above Lewis Richards in gaol, and this Lewis Richards is not of the same family unfortunately....karen