MORRIS - Welsh Regiment

[bonti]

My eyes are red and scratchy...................
|banghead|
Folks I'm tooooo stupid to find anything but a headache in The National Archives. I've spent hours/days/weeks trying to find info but am lost, lost, lost.
Please can some-one help me................Please!

Dummy version - step by step - guide would be great to find:

Lewis David MORRIS born 1874 Cefn, Breconshire, Wales. In the 1891 Census was a private in Welsh Regiment, Cardiff.

I'm looking for service record/medals or casualty..........anything.

He died before May 1916 as his wife remarried then.

HELP!
Please|help|

[Peter Goodey]

The first questions you have to ask yourself are -
When did he die?
Did he die in service?

If the answers to those questions suggest that a service record should be available, this research guide will tell you how to proceed

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=14

You will not find him listed by name in the National Archives catalogue.

[Geoffers]

Folks I'm tooooo stupid to find anything but a headache in The National Archives.

No you're not, I'm as thick as two short planks and have found how to use it by practice.


Lewis David MORRIS born 1874 Cefn, Breconshire, Wales. In the 1891 Census was a private in Welsh Regiment, Cardiff.

First thing to do is read Peter's message above as it asks important questions. So, to narrow down the period in which he may have died:

1. When did he marry and was he still a soldier then?

2. Have you found him, or his wife in the 1901 census? Was he still alive? Was he still a soldier then?

3. When was his last child born?

5. Did he die in WW1, whilst still serving in the army? Can you identify him on the CWGC (http://www.cwgc.org/) web-site?

6. Try searching the Army death indexes which can be found in many county record offices and also online at findmypast (pay-per-view) to see if you can identify a death for Lewis whilst serving in the army. There is an individual index for deaths in the South African (Boer) War.

Some basic information on searching using TNA's catalogue:

What you can find there depends on the record you are looking for. Some records are very helpfully, individually indexed. So you can locate specific documents for a single person.

Other records are stored in large boxes. Army service records for this period are just such a type of record. About 100 service records are stored flat in a large box.

The first and last records alphabetically are indexed. So, the chances are you won't find a reference to MORRIS, Lewis. But if you can narrow down when he left the army, you should be able to identify in which box (TNA call it a 'piece'), his record is stored, and order it online.

How to identify the box (piece) in which he appears. This is one of the occasions, when a reasonably common surname is a help.

Let's suppose for the sake of argument that your Lewis MORRIS left the army before 1901.

Using TNA's catalogue (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/search.asp)
In the field 'name or phrase' - enter - MORRIS
In the 'year range' - enter - 1891 and 1899
In the 'department or series code' - enter - WO97

Try it - you should get this result (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/searchresults.asp?SearchInit=0&txtsearchterm=morris&txtfirstdate=1891&txtlastdate=1900&txtrestriction=wo97&hdnsorttype=Reference&image1.x=38&image1.y=9) which consists of 5 hits.
Alphabetically, MORRIS L D should be in this piece (Box) (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATID=692443&CATLN=6&Highlight=%2CMORRIS%2CMORRIS&accessmethod=0)

Of course, just on the information you provided, he could have left the army after 1900. So, now try searching the catalogue again but change the year range to 1900 to 1913. see if you can say how man hits there are and in which piece (box) Lewis's record might be found.

You can request TNA to look for the service record of Lewis David MORRIS in a specific piece (Box) and order it online.

There are circmstances in which your chap may not appear in WO97; but it is best to begin with simple searches first to build up yor confidence and understanding in using TNA's catalogue we can get onto alternatives once you have covered Peter's questions and the above.

Do stick with it as there is a lot of useful information there which may help the search for your family history.

If the above is as clear as mud, please say and I'll try to clarify things.

[bonti]

To answer Peter first..............
When did he die? Have absolutely no idea but think it was before 1913 as his wife had a child by another man then.
Did he die in service? Also Have no idea. Had supposed that as he and wife or family couldn't be found in the 1901 census that he might well have been fighting the Boer War ........ have search and search trying to find records if he was killed then or even if he served in the army. Then found Lewis in the 1891 Census as mentioned before and was thus hoping to either find him among the medal recipients or service records.

Now Geoffers................
When did he marry? ..... 1895 Newport, Wales (awaiting certificate)
In 1901 Census? ......... No can't find them.
Last Child birth? .......... March 1901 London
Die WW1? ....... No - wife had a child 1913 to another man.
Findmypast?......Don't find a record there either

I admit to thinking that the National Archive search would give up a specific index file number that I could order. I was not aware that the results I would find would be a box of strong possiblities and that I'd have to get some-one to check through the box before establishing if a record was there or no.

So now using the search you provided I have sent off a request to TNA for them to look into two Boxes for Lewis David. (I think I bumped into these results a number of times as I see when I go to them now that they are a maroon colour rather than blue)
Here's hoping Lewis' info doesn't fall into one of those special circumstances you refered to.

A big THANK YOU to both of you for the help.
Greatly appreciated

Bonti

[Geoffers]

When did he marry? ..... 1895 Newport, Wales (awaiting certificate)

That wll be an important document, do let us know what it mentions as it may help to direct research.


In 1901 Census? ......... No can't find them.

Curses


Last Child birth? .......... March 1901 London

If you don't have that certificate, it would be worth obtaining, f only to confirm that your chap was still alive. and then limit the time seach for his death.


I admit to thinking that the National Archive search would give up a specific index file number that I could order. I was not aware that the results I would find would be a box of strong possiblities

It's a fairly painless process, but it does help to practice with searches. TNA has an awful lot of records - some are individually indexed (e.g. some court records, naturalisations, earlier army and navy records, some Merchant Seamen records), some are indexed by groups of names (such as these army records in which you are interested), some are indexed only by place (e.g. early musters and subsidies). Do look at the research guides and use the catalogue as there is a lot to help you and it will be useful if you are familiar with the structure of the catalogue.

If you get stuck, ask - it's what these forums are for.

[bonti]

After a long, long wait (usually feels like forever) I received Lewis David MORRIS' marriage certificate 1895. It states that Lewis is a 22 yo private in 41st Welsh Regiment.
TNA informed me that it will cost 60pound for them to retrieve the possible files found for service records.
Does this sound correct? 60Pound seems pretty dear or am I being a bit of a Scrooge?
The Welsh regiment also asked a fairly loaded fee for looking up Lewis' service records.
Still awaiting the Lewis David MORRIS born 1901 birth certificate ordered with the marriage cert...........I hope I didn't mess the order up but won't contact the GRO just yet.
:)
Regards

[Geoffers]

After a long, long wait (usually feels like forever) I received Lewis David MORRIS' marriage certificate 1895. It states that Lewis is a 22 yo private in 41st Welsh Regiment.
TNA informed me that it will cost 60pound for them to retrieve the possible files found for service records.
Does this sound correct? 60Pound seems pretty dear or am I being a bit of a Scrooge?

Making sure that you make best use of your money seems sensible.

What you need to ask yourself is - Can you get to TNA yourself to do the same thing, but cheaper? Secondly, how much you want his service record - will it wait until you get a win on the pools/lottery/premium bonds, etc?

When did he leave the army? - Is his pension record online? If he served in WW1, the burnt documents are slowly being put online; if you wait a little, you may be able to get the document, cheaper.

[Wobbley]

I found this. How it is going to help you I haven't a clue ?

http://hometown.aol.co.uk/elasplin/sup97.html

Brian