Beware of Tired Eyes

[MythicalMarian]

I'm not quite sure if this is the right sub-forum to post this in, but if it will help others....

I have been in this game now for 22 years, and I have lost count of the number of times I have searched Cheadle St. Mary Parish Registers (Cheshire) - in fact, I've come to know many of the old Cheadle families as though they are friends - even if they're not mine! But...no matter how many times I had - er - searched these registers, I could not find the burial of my 4xgreat grandfather John Stokes/Stoakes, a cordwainer born in 1733 in Cheadle - in fact his is the very first Stokes baptism in those registers. I had imagined all sorts of mysteries. Did he fall in the River Mersey and get washed up near Wallasey? Did he murder someone? Did he abandon his wife and 8 kids? You know the sort of thing....

Last Friday I returned to the old microfilmed registers to trace the descendants of another line, and what did I find.... 22nd December, 1816 the burial of one John Stoakes of Cheadle, aged 83 years! Take 83 from 1816 and yes.... simple really.

I have no excuse at all for missing this entry - it was even on one of the new-fangled printed forms that came into use in 1813. I had found his wife's burial two years later without any problem at all 22 years ago.

So - I just give this example to all our newbies. Always recheck your parish registers - again and again if necessary. What your tired eyes may miss one day, you may find again later.

And to complete my humiliation in this matter - the same thing had already happened to me with the marriage of this John's son, William (my 3xgreat grandfather) in 1797. Tired eyes again.

[Geoffers]

........and having missed one, in comes the doubt......Have I missed another? should I just recheck those 2,000 census pages for Bury, Rochdale and Heywood that I've just worked through?

To avoid becoming a complete neurotic I now index every record that I check, as I work through it, most are just a surname index, but at least I have a record which helps to find things again and I know that I haven't missed anything............or have I?.........Perhaps I should just.........

[mfwebb]

It's not just the tired old eyes but the stupid mistakes that can catch you out too.

In my early days of research 18 years ago I spent 2 days in Sheffield Archives searching for the birth of M. J. Laycock in the Grenoside Parish Records. I had found the reference in the 1881 census for my grandmother Alice Laycock, and the head of the household was M. J. Laycock born in Grenoside. I had completely overlooked the fact that it was plainly obvious in the census that M. J. Laycock was female -- no wonder I couldn't find the birth.

We sometimes also miss the blindingly obvious even when we've seen it and read it dozens of times. It's only recently, thanks to another pair of eyes in this forum, that I broke the deadlock of the whereabouts of my 2 x ggm in 1851 and 1861 (2 x ggf is still missing presumed dead but I can't find his death).

My ggf Charles Webb was living with a Goodman family in Warwickshire in 1851 and 1861 where he was described as son and son-in-law respectively to the Head. But the wife of the Head didn't have the name of Charles' mother. So for nearly 10 years I assumed "adoption" by a completely new family that I couldn't explain. It was only when someone suggested I check the marriage certificate of Thomas and Catherine Goodman that the truth dawned. The relationship was correct -- Catherine Goodman was a widow, formerly Webb and her father's name and occupation on that marriage certificate are the same as on the first marriage certificate, although the first name has changed from Ann to Catherine.

After all these years I should have been wise enough to have checked the obvious for myself -- but I was blinded by notions of adoption by a new family and the obvious completely evaded me.

So -- refresh the tired old eyes -- or get some fresh eyes to look over the evidence. And as someone said to me very early on -- record everything, sort out the good from the bad, but don't ever throw anything away. One day it will take on a previously unknown significance.

[Barbara Wilkinson]

but don't ever throw anything away.
.... but then you need a very good filing system .... or you end up like me - with seemingly thousands of pieces of paper stuffed in drawers and old files - and absolutely no idea where that piece of paper you clearly remember from ?? years ago in the ?? record office actually is!

[MaryFrances]

.... but then you need a very good filing system .... or you end up like me - with seemingly thousands of pieces of paper stuffed in drawers and old files - and absolutely no idea where that piece of paper you clearly remember from ?? years ago in the ?? record office actually is!
I can relate to this as I have dozens of pieces of paper with details scribbled on them. I do intend to organise it all, but never seem to get around to it and I know that I run the risk of losing everything. Must try harder!

[Barbara Wilkinson]

I have lost count of the number of times I have searched Cheadle St. Mary Parish Registers (Cheshire) - in fact, I've come to know many of the old Cheadle families as though they are friends

This didn't register when I first read this thread .......!!!!
I wonder if you count amongst your "friends" the Metcalfe or Gosling familes .....??
James Metcalfe/Medcalfe married Charlotte Gosling at St Mary's Cheadle on 22 December 1782 - I know this is in the PRs because UK kindly confirmed this some (considerable) time ago! I have not yet had a chance to look at these PRs for myself to see if a suitable baptism for either James or Charlotte appears at St Mary's. Maybe you have seen something ....?? Or do I take it that you will not be looking at these PRs again in the near future ...!

[v.wells]

I can relate to this as I have dozens of pieces of paper with details scribbled on them. I do intend to organise it all, but never seem to get around to it and I know that I run the risk of losing everything. Must try harder!

I relate to that! While being computerless for nearly 1 month I sorted thru mounds of sticky notes and other scribbles on notepads and ended up throwing out 1/2 of it:D

Now I have laptop, I can get right back to it. I was inputting an address last night and KNOW that I've seen it somewhere before. Now I am faced with hours of tired eyes looking for it on my tree that is on another site -very annoying! Now my curiousity is up:D

[MythicalMarian]

This didn't register when I first read this thread .......!!!!
I wonder if you count amongst your "friends" the Metcalfe or Gosling familes .....??
James Metcalfe/Medcalfe married Charlotte Gosling at St Mary's Cheadle on 22 December 1782 - I know this is in the PRs because UK kindly confirmed this some (considerable) time ago! I have not yet had a chance to look at these PRs for myself to see if a suitable baptism for either James or Charlotte appears at St Mary's. Maybe you have seen something ....?? Or do I take it that you will not be looking at these PRs again in the near future ...!

Happy to help, Barbara. I'll be returning shortly to 'finish my Smalls' (don't ask!) at Cheadle and I will have a good search for you. Metcalfe rings bells, but I can't say Gosling does off the top of my head, but I will look - very carefully, this time....;)

[MythicalMarian]

I relate to that! While being computerless for nearly 1 month I sorted thru mounds of sticky notes and other scribbles on notepads and ended up throwing out 1/2 of it:D

Now I have laptop, I can get right back to it. I was inputting an address last night and KNOW that I've seen it somewhere before. Now I am faced with hours of tired eyes looking for it on my tree that is on another site -very annoying! Now my curiousity is up:D

I have a complete chest at home of paperwork, which I am painstakingly transposing to computer. But I always keep what I call my 'source books'. These are all the notepads, or those page a day diaries that you get from work (and never use) in which I take down all my entries from libraries, record offices etc. So, I always have the original record to go back to, with the date I searched, the period of time, and the surname(s) I was looking for.

This paid dividends when I re-searched Bowdon PRs a couple of years ago, because in my original notebook from 1986 I had actually scribbled the comment 'very hard to read - some entries impossible on microfilm'.

So, despite missing my John's burial (:o) I do have some sort of system in place that can help from time to time. I tend to write little notes such as 'a few entries from 1720 almost impossible to decipher' etc. This means I can write nice letters to whoever holds the original registers. The lady at Bowdon was very kind in this respect.

[mfwebb]

.... but then you need a very good filing system .... or you end up like me - with seemingly thousands of pieces of paper stuffed in drawers and old files - and absolutely no idea where that piece of paper you clearly remember from ?? years ago in the ?? record office actually is!

Loose bits of paper are an absolute no-no in my record keeping system. I have hard-backed A4 books for my field notes with each page numbered and each book numbered as a volume -- cross referenced where possible as I go or later as connections become apparent. I transcribe my notes into computer files -- a separate file for each person as a Word document.

I reference my families by letter (A=Webb; B=Roystone; etc) and individuals by number. So in my system I am A1; father is A2; gf is A3 and so on.

I print out some of my computer files and keep them in A4 presentation folders -- a separate one for each family. I keep all my certificates in a presentation folder (indexed of course) and I transcribe the details onto my own versions of birth, marriage and death certificates and save them as pdf files on the computer so I can e-mail them to other family members as and when necessary.

I also have a genealogy programme (Brother’s Keeper) where I can keep track of relationships and each person in there is linked to the appropriate Word file.

My wife pokes fun sometimes at my record keeping, but when I can turn up some research I did 18 years ago at the drop of a hat and she can’t locate the bit of paper she scribbled a birth reference on last week, she becomes very envious.

[Barbara Wilkinson]

Malcolm - I am completely in awe of you!!|bowdown|
Some of what I said was tongue in cheek - but the idea of being that organised .......!!!

[mfwebb]

The reason I am so well-organised is probably because I thought about doing my family history for a whole year before I actually put pen to paper. My first acquisition was a paperback book by Estelle Catlett called "Track Down Your Ancestors" published in 1988. It was (still is) a superb beginner's book although it is now outdated with the advent of computerisation.

Chapter 4 is called "Keeping Your Records" and I followed her advice in this chapter from the very beginning -- numbering individuals using a unique family letter and keeping each individual on a separate card in a card index system. Information such as name, date of birth, parents names etc went on the front of the card and other information about the individual went on the back of the card as it came to light. I started this card index system in 1989.

In 1993, when I first had a pc of my own at home, I began faithfully transcribing all the information from the cards onto computer. My own record is numbered A1 -- A being the WEBB family. The top of each document is a table containing all the information from the front of the index card and the rest of the document contains information, as it came to light, which was originally on the back of the card.

Then I discovered Brother's Keeper and put all the information in there as well and linked each person to their individual Word file.

It is very easy to maintain having started from the beginning and I suppose I was very lucky in that respect -- because of Estelle Catlett's book I had a clear idea of how I was going to keep things before I actually started gathering information.

If I was staring again and knowing what I know now, I don't think I would do things any differently.

[jillynetter]

What a good system you have Malcolm, that makes sense to me which I'd like to adopt myself. Here's hoping I faithfully keep it up.

[Barnzzz]

I'm very impressed Malcolm, and I'm inspired to be more organised myself. The trouble is I keep getting sidetracked. As I write I'm surrounded by 3 separate piles of paper which I know are very interesting and need looking at urgently. By the time I've finished sorting them out, I'll have produced a few more !

Sue

[frogfan]

.... but then you need a very good filing system .... or you end up like me - with seemingly thousands of pieces of paper stuffed in drawers and old files - and absolutely no idea where that piece of paper you clearly remember from ?? years ago in the ?? record office actually is!

Too Right

Display some certificates - don't loose the ones you don't need that time and remember what the bloooming heck you've done with them so you're not still looking 2 years later!!!!!!!!!!:o|oopsredfa|blush|

Don't ask what I've done with the bits found in x no of record offices - there about somewhere!!!

[Toronto]

Dear Tired eyes................. :))
Please can you tell me if you accessed this information through the internet? I have been looking for Maria Parsonage who might be buried in Cheadle. Her sons were born in Cheadle around 1818 and 1819 according to various census records. I assumed she died after the birth of her last son. Her husband Henry Parsonage remarried in Denton in 1822.

Any help is always appreciated.

Kind regards
Mike Morris
Toronto Canada ex Manchester

[MarkJ]

.... and remember what the bloooming heck you've done with them so you're not still looking 2 years later!!



Or worse - you reorder the same certificates, then look at them and think " I am sure I have seen this information somewhere..."
I know I have done that at least once!

Mark

[Clive Blackaby]

The reason I am so well-organised ...
I am unworthy |bowdown|

Yes, I have ordered the same certificate twice - kerching - there goes another tenner

Yes, I've just found my gt grandparent's marriage cert, which I'd forgotten I had, amongst some bank statements I was about to shred.

Yes, it took me three viewings of the Wormley P.Rs to find the baptisms of my ggg grandmother's children by her second "marriage" (Maria Blackerby "widow" - [not] - m William Prior widower) (well, yes they would be baptised in HIS name [Prior] not her first husband's [Blackerby] wouldn't they - even if they later reverted to Blackerby because the second marriage was bigamous!!

And as for the notes I have, made by a well meaning co-researcher regarding people named Clark born in Hertfordshire ... ...

[Mahala]

I'm very impressed Malcolm! What a great system.

May I ask if you have any advice for storing/labelling/organising photos, as it's one part of my research that I'm not at all satisfied with.

:)

[mfwebb]

Thanks to everyone for their kind comments about my filing, and let me apologise for not responding sooner but I have been off-line for a week dealing with a family bereavement -- my wife's mother.

The filing system I use is not mine and I claim no originality for it -- I faithfully followed the system set down by Estelle Catlett in her fabulous little paperback called "Track Down Your Ancestors" from the very start and I do appreciate how difficult it is to organise stuff after you've accumulated just 6 month's work in a filing box. That's the position my wife is in now with her family history. She has a box full of disorganised papers and no matter how hard she works at organising things, she gets sidetracked with something she had forgotten about. She picks up a paper for filing then gets involved in further research and accumulates yet more paper before she has filed what she had in her hand.

As for photographs -- sadly, I have yet to find many family photographs from my father's side of the family. Those I do have are mounted on sheets of A4 paper with stamp hinges, suitably annotated, and kept in those clear multi-punched pocket things and filed with the appropriate person or family.

I do have a small box of photos from my mother which are not yet sorted as I have not created a file for the people or that particular branch of the family yet. I took the opportunity whilst my mother was alive and still reasonably "with us" to ask her who they all were and I wrote the details on the back of the photo in pencil. But some of them are anonymous and I shall probably never know.

I also have a filing system for information I gather about the places associated with my family. The prefix is "PL" for Place :) So, for example, PL.1 is Thurgoland, Yorkshire, the first associated place I found and PL.6 is Houghton Conquest, Bedfordshire. Photographs of the places, many of which I have taken myself on visits, are mounted as described earlier and filed in the appropriate Place -- if you'll pardon the pun.

[apehangmom]

I have to say .. I have more people say to me I am too hard on my self when it comes to making mistakes in my genealogy ness. But what my family doesnt understand is that .. vacations .. are made and plans are split to take photos of a graveyard .. trips to a home a pilgrim lived and died in. .. trips to a museum that wants your DNA. So when your kids are crying mom.. we want to go to the mall not the cemetery on your next research trip... its the stolen hours at the Genealogy section inthe library.. the kids have dissapeared .. and read the whole manga section .. and there now turning out the lights... But when you go in and look for hours for some one that doesnt exactly exist .. its frustrating and then you go back look in your book and make a connection.. its great but .. just making the mistake.. takes away valuable hours.. of kids mall time . .and library time for free on Ancestry.com. lol

[pottoka]

I drive my husband up the wall with my papers strewn everywhere - although I do believe he takes tidiness to its limit when he refuses to leave waste paper in the bin overnight!!

I did start out to be organised, with ring binders holding my printouts of the Census returns, with certificates in their appropriate places, but then I came to a brick wall |banghead| ... of my own making:

Where does one put a marriage certificate as it concerns two people and therefore two family lines? :confused: In the best of worlds, I would have two copies: one for the husband and one for the wife. I can't afford two originals each time and, if I used a photocopy, how would I choose who would have it? Somehow, it seems logical - or is it inbred? - to put it with the husband, but, as a woman, I ... object!! |scold|

Maybe I should research my tree like a lot of the French seem to do, and like my inlaws are doing: agnatic genealogy. But it seems to me that they miss out on a lot doing it that way, and it does rather reduce the women to a merely reproductive role.

So if Malcolm or anyone else has any tips, I'd love to hear them.

[MarkJ]

Why not simply scan the certificate, place the original with the papers for one family and the copy with the papers for the other - with a note at the bottom of the copy stating that the original is in with the other family? It doesn't matter which side gets the original - choose whichever you prefer and I suppose sticking to the same rule in future makes sense too.

Must admit that all my certificates are shoved in a large folder - totally disorganised!

Mark

[v.wells]

I have 4 folders - 1 for each of my grandparents names. Any certs go into that folder even if the names are different as they still belong to that line. I also scan them and save them on 2 different hard drives plus an external drive.

[frogfan]

Where does one put a marriage certificate as it concerns two people and therefore two family lines? :confused: In the best of worlds, I would have two copies: one for the husband and one for the wife. I can't afford two originals each time and, if I used a photocopy, how would I choose who would have it? Somehow, it seems logical - or is it inbred? - to put it with the husband, but, as a woman, I ... object!! |scold|



A Marriage certificate is the property of the wife - It was her's to prove that she was married and her children weren't illigitamate.

Hope this helps

[pottoka]

Thank you, frogfan, that helps a lot. I'd never looked at it in that way before.
|jumphappy

[sindylin]

Interesting reading.....I'm somewhere in between!

Years ago when I first started researching my family I didn't get as far as checking the census returns as I had quite a lot of info from living family members. then I had my two children and the whole lot got shelved.

It was only last September that I became interested in looking into it all again. How things have changed!!!!

Now a lot of it is on the internet I find myself printing out everything and anything on anyone!!!

Fortunately I kept all of my old paperwork and that now forms the back bone of my more recent research.

At the moment I am concentrating on just four family names so it is easy to file.

From Tescos I bought their plastic display books, dead cheap they are, and each one has 40 pages with see through pockets so when doubled up you can get 80 documents in each book.

Each family has a different colour and each family has three books,(so far) one for certificates, one for wills and other documents, the third one is for census returns.

Also from Tescos I bought their plastic document wallets that do up with a plastic popper and are see through, each one is labelled with the family surname and in it goes anything else I find of interest "for future reference" !! including photos that I really need to preserve, I know!!


I have put everything onto the PC using RootsMagic which I back up regularly. Every photo,document and certificate has been scanned and burned onto a CD!

Sounds quite organised eh??? hmmmmm then why do I have a constant pile of paperwork next to me that just seems to grow????

sindylin