Convent and Home of the Good Shepherd in Orrel and Ford,

[dawn.read]

Hello everyone,

I put this post up earlier today and then since realised I have probably put it in the wrong section!! Sorry, still quite new to all this......

.....I have been looking for my Great Grandmothers siblings in 1901 and believe that I have found her sister Sarah Golden age 15 as an inmate at The Convent and Home of the Good Shepherd in Orrel and Ford, Lancashire (which I believe to be near Liverpool somewhere).

It is listed as a reformatory. Please could anyone give me any idea as to why she might be there.

Both her grandparents were originally from Ireland and were catholic families. Her mother I believe was born in Liverpool but she was born in York, and the rest of her family were still there.

Was she pregnant and banished away??

or was it like a prison where she was being punished for being naughty??

I have tried Googling with no success. Any help would be gratefully received.

Many Thanks

Dawn

[ChrisKelly]

The Victorians had all sorts of institutions to deal with the poor, the destitute, juvenile offenders and those deemed to have "dissolute habits" - reformatories, homes, ragged schools, industrial schools, asylums etc. As most of the inmates at this Convent had ordinary jobs (including your Sarah) this clearly wasn't a prison, but as it was described as Reformatory there must have been an element of 'reform' or punishment. What crimes they might have committed, if any, is hard to say. Perhaps some were "fallen" women as the expression went, but as the average age of the inmates appears to be over 30 and some women are in their 50s, 60s and even 70s, I think those days were probably in the past! What your Sarah did, if anything, one can only speculate. I expect a lot of women stayed on at the Convent simply because they had nowhere else to go.

I could only find a brief mention of the Convent on British History Online which says, A Roman Catholic cemetery of 21 acres was opened in 1855, and has the church of the Holy Sepulchre adjoining it, built in 1861. There is also a convent of nuns of the Good Shepherd who have an asylum for penitent women, established in Everton in 1858 and removed to Ford in 1867 .

[Jan1954]

Hello Dawn,

I have found a reference to the convent here:

http://www.evere.co.uk/eavespage/files2/lancashire.htm

If you click on the link, and scroll to just over half way down, it refers to the Good Shepherd Order at Ford, Liverpool.

Only a snippet but I hope that it helps.

[uksearch]

You could try contacting Catholic Childrens Protection Society, 99, Shaw Street, Everton.

UK

[dawn.read]

Thanks for your replies. I am guessing she might have been pregnant and at such a young age, for a catholic family - this would have been a problem.

There was a baby girl called Edith Golden born in Sept qtr 1901 in Salford (the only Golden to be born in Lancashire that year) and Sarah was back in York getting married in 1903.

Is it reasonable that a birth there would have been registered in Salford? (It doesn't seem that far away on Google maps)

Her parents did bring up a grandchild as their own but I believe his mother was married when he was born and left him with them.

[Jan1954]

There was a baby girl called Edith Golden born in Sept qtr 1901 in Salford (the only Golden to be born in Lancashire that year) and Sarah was back in York getting married in 1903.


It looks like little Edith died soon after:

Deaths Sep 1901
Golden Edith 0 Salford 8d 46

The birth certificate would give the answer as to whether she was Sarah's and where she was born.

[Alan Welsford]

Is it reasonable that a birth there would have been registered in Salford? (It doesn't seem that far away on Google maps)

As the address you have is in Orrell and Ford it looks to me that in 1901 a birth there ought to have been registered in the West Derby district of Lancs.

Heres what it contained...

http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/Reg/districts/west%20derby.html

Alan

[dawn.read]

Thanks Jan,

I hadn't thought to look at deaths.

I will get round to ordering that certificate one day - just to check, but at the mo I have a mountain of others i'm going to get first.

All the best

Dawn

[dawn.read]

Thanks Alan,

so possibly nothing to do with my Sarah at all|banghead|

[Alan Welsford]

Thanks Alan,

so possibly nothing to do with my Sarah at all|banghead|

Well I'm a southerner, so only going by what that GENUKI page says. But unless your Convent wasn't physically within "Orrell & Ford", if she did give birth, it doesn't sound like she did it at the convent.

Best wishes,

Alan

[Jan1954]

Well I'm a southerner, so only going by what that GENUKI page says. But unless your Convent wasn't physically within "Orrell & Ford", if she did give birth, it doesn't sound like she did it at the convent.

Best wishes,

Alan

Unless the birth was registered close but far enough away to save face...

[Alan Welsford]

Unless the birth was registered close but far enough away to save face...
Sorry Jan,

This seems unlikely to me.

If this were a case of an unwanted pregnancy, then the greater shame would have been having to pack her off to the reformatory, and all that that implied.

I can't see they would have saved much face by registering a birth in the wrong registration district. Who would have known if they had done it in the "right" one, anyway, (unless the registrar was a friend or relative of the family :D)

Of course legally the registration has to be in the district where the birth occurred, so they would have had to have invented a Salford based address for the registrar - I doubt they would have accepted an address outside their district.

Of course buying the certificate is the way to prove it one way or the other. My vote is that if it is a child of Sarah's, then the certificate will cite an address not in "Orrell and Ford".

But I have been known to be wrong, (rather too often, in fact!...)

Alan

[Jan1954]

Sorry Jan,

This seems unlikely to me.

If this were a case of an unwanted pregnancy, then the greater shame would have been having to pack her off to the reformatory, and all that that implied.

I can't see they would have saved much face by registering a birth in the wrong registration district. Who would have known if they had done it in the "right" one, anyway, (unless the registrar was a friend or relative of the family :D)

Of course legally the registration has to be in the district where the birth occurred, so they would have had to have invented a Salford based address for the registrar - I doubt they would have accepted an address outside their district.
Fair enough.


But I have been known to be wrong, (rather too often, in fact!...)

Alan

You and me both, boy, you and me both :D

[uksearch]

SNIP

Is it reasonable that a birth there would have been registered in Salford? (It doesn't seem that far away on Google maps)

SNIP



As has already been explained, I would think this unlikely...and I am an expert on this area|biggrin||biggrin||biggrin|.

UK

[dawn.read]

Thank you all for your help and advice.

I have only been guessing and it is helpful to see what other people think.

I guess it is another thing that i'll just never know|computer|

All the best

Dawn

[Robbo]

have you seen these photos of the Good Shepherd

http://www.litherland-digital.co.uk/album_5/pages/wash_house.htm
http://www.litherland-digital.co.uk/album_5/pages/convent_menu.htm
http://www.litherland-digital.co.uk/album_5/pages/convent.htm
http://www.litherland-digital.co.uk/album_5/pages/dormitory.htm

Robbo

[dawn.read]

These are great thanks Robbo.

It gives a real taste of what life would have been like in 1900. It's just a shame that i'll probably never know anything else about her or why she was there.

All the best

Dawn