Argyle Road Stratford E15

[shell]

I am looking for Joseph Cole b. 1836
Juliet Cole b.1839
Josie Juliet Cole b.1880

I can find no trace of them in the 1881 census. In the 1891 census they were living at 16 Argyle Road, Wanstead, Leyton, Essex. ( Now part of Greater London) I have looked for this address in 1881 but there were only a few houses in this road recorded and it stopped before no. 16. Either the Coles were somewhere else entirely and I have just not located them, or this address, along with the rest of the top end of the road, was ommitted from the 1881 census. Does anyone know when the houses in this road were built at all please?

Regards
Shell

[Ron Lankshear]

Just to say I looked in 1881
LDS on line Josie with head Joseph - also Juliet - blank surname
and no Juliet Cole at all

also tried a search in ancestry - good because you can use wildcards

There is a Joseph born Stratford in 1839 but he is in Lancs with a Naomi
I expect you knew that

By the way were birth years in relation to census - I used either side as well - as census doesn't know actual birth year just age

No help at all
Perhaps the census for that street is missing or they are overseas or....

[Pam Downes]

I am looking for Joseph Cole b. 1836
Juliet Cole b.1839
Josie Juliet Cole b.1880

I can find no trace of them in the 1881 census. In the 1891 census they were living at 16 Argyle Road, Wanstead, Leyton, Essex. ( Now part of Greater London)

Josie's birth*should* be on the GRO Index (not showing on FreeBMD yet for Mar 1878 to Dec 1882) so if you haven't yet got her birth certificate send for it, to obtain the address they were living at between the birth and the census. No guarantee that they haven't moved from Land's End to John O'Groats in the meantime, but at least you have a starting point.

Pam Downes

[Geoffers]

Do you have Josie Juliet's year of birth from a certificate or census return? If it is from a census return, the ages can be inacurrate, even for young children. From the 1891 census, where were the parents born?

If the census is your source for the daughter's birth, then it would be quite possible that she was in fact born after the census in 1881. What was the father's occupation, could he have been in the army in 1881, and posted abroad?

You'll find when searching census returns that some entries are difficult to locate because of the information recorded.

Some tips to help in searching for 'missing' people in the census:

1) For very young children, try a search using 'infant' as the forename. There are quite a few there in 1881 and some are several years old.

2) Try searching just on a surname - some adults have no forenames recorded.

3) Do a search only on initials, some people in institutions are only recorded this way.

4) Enter as little information as you can get away with - if you get thousands of hits and you don't have time to work through them all, then add a little more to the search

5) If entering a place of birth in the search, bear in mind that spelling was often a problem in the 19th century. Place names were written as they sound, and many local places are/were known by local nicknames (e.g. Portsmouth - Pompey, Happisburgh - Hasbro - there are loads).

6) There's a similar problem to (5) for surnames and even soundex does not bring up all variants (e.g. a search for Raspberry will not bring up Rasberry, the same for Thirtle and Thirkle, etc).

My first guess would be that the houses in Argyle Road were still being built in 1881, which is why they don't show up.

Geoffers
Charlbury, Oxfordshire

[shell]

Thanks everyone for your help. I am really stuck with this family. Josie's birth does not seem to have been registered. We know from her birthday book, which mum's cousin has, that her birthday was 20th June and I have estimated the age from the 1891 census. Joseph was a sea captain so it is possible that they were abroad in 1881. I have found her baptism but this was done late in 1894 and her date of birth was not given. I have searched the GRO index for several years either side of 1880 but with no success. In the 1891 census it says she was born in Hawkhurst Kent and the Kent Registration service( online assistance is excellent for this county) have checked their local indexes for 3 years with no success. I thought I would try another tack and see if I could find anything out about possible addresses for 1881. I will also have a look at the census for Holborn in 1881 where Juliet was in 1871 and where they had family. Joseph's half brother, William Libbis, was the Registrar for St Andrews Holborn so I suppose that Josie could have been entered late there and not added to the main GRO indexes, but unfortunately that is one of the areas where they will not answer genealogy queries.
Never mind I will keep trying.

Best Wishes
Michele

[Pam Downes]

Joseph was a sea captain so it is possible that they were abroad in 1881.
I have searched the GRO index for several years either side of 1880 but with no success.

Hi Michele,

Do you know that in addition to the main GRO Index there are also what I call 'sub-sections' (for want of a better word) ? They deal with various events abroad. See
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/research/searchingforoverseasrecords/index.asp#0

Pam Downes

[shell]

Dear Pam

Thanks for the information. I have tried all the overseas records on 1837 online with no success. I also tried them for Joseph and Juliets' marriage, as Juliet was born in Marseilles France according to 1871, 1891, and 1901 censuses and an exhaustive search of the English GRO marriage indexes has not found them! A sensible person would give up at this point but it was this family that got me interested in family history and my mum would love to know more about her gran.

At the moment I am waiting for a death certificate for a lady called Juliet deLisle Bartlett who was living in the same house as the Coles in 1891 with her husband Henry Bartlett. They were 20 odd years older than Juliet so could just possibly be her parents, Juliet being a very uncommon forename in England in those days. They both died early in 1892. I found a will for Henry but he just left everything to his wife with no mention of anyone else. Juliet deLisle Bartlett died shortly after her husband but I could find no trace of a will for her in the national calender of wills. I have sent for her death certificate in case Juliet or Joseph Cole was the informant. With any luck it will either confirm a relationship or disprove it but progress has been so difficult with this family that I am not hopeful. I ordered the certifiacte nearly 3 weeks ago but no sign of it so far.

Thanks for your help any suggestions gratefully received.

Best Wishes
Shell

[Pam Downes]

A sensible person would give up at this point ............


A sensible person would never start this genealogy lark in the first place :D

Pam Downes

[shell]

Dear Pam

I am sure you are right, but we would miss out on a lot of fun.

Merry Christmas

Shell