Hello & First Time Here

[maureen54]

Hello Everyone
Glad to have found this Forum.I have been doing my family tree for about 10 months and I am still learning.I have knocked down a few |banghead|but there is one that is still really hard to breakdown maybe it is because the persons family I am looking for was a Builder & Bricklayer ;)
I am looking for descendants of my Maternal Grandparents who where.....

Joseph Edward Ryan b 1866 Seacombe Cheshire
Martha Agnes Kate Ryan nee Cooper b 1875 Carlisle Cumbria.

I have their details so thats ok...........|help|

Their first born was
May Agnes Ryan b 1899 Seaombe & died in Childbirth with my Mum on 5th June 1921|sad1
I have her birth certificate and I must order her death certificate to see the details.


Second Born
Mary Ryan b 1901 Seacombe who I think married Frederick Phillips
Found her married name on her Joseph Edward Ryan death certificate

Third born
James Ryan b 1903 Seacombe who I think married Clara Pickstock

Fourth Born
Joseph Ryan b 1904 Seacombe who I think married Annie Hughes

Fifth born
Kate Ryan b 1908 Seacombe who I cannot find a thing on|banghead|

My parents are deceased and the only thing that Mum mentioned about her family was that she was raised by her Maternal Grandparents & Aunt but never mentioned the name of the Aunt and silly me didnt ask at the time.
My Mum married her first husband in 1940 and I thought she was still living in Desmene St Seacombe as she had told me that is where she grew up BUT on her marriage certificate which I have just obtained it shows Mum living at...

40 Leominster Road
Liscard
Wallasey.

Would any one have the Kellys 1940 directory to see who the occupant was please as maybe ahe was living with a family memeber who was the head of the household.
Also any info on the descendants would also be appreciated.
I have the 1894,1911,1938 Kellys Directories |book2|
and willing to help anyone who may need a lookup in those for their research.
Thankyou in advance and hope to hear from someone soon.
I live in Sydney Australia and I am really chuffed in joining this forum.
Cheers
Momo

[v.wells]

I don't know that there is a 1940 Kelly's, but I may be wrong. The Liscard address may well be the address of where she and her new husband were going to be living at. As to the rest I'll have a quick peak. I have an Annie Hughes on my tree somewhere.

[maureen54]

Hi V!!|wave|
thanks for replying so quick!! I think from memory that they first lived with his parents in Barrington Road as from memory.
thanks too for going to take a peep.If you need any look ups in the directories I have will I happily oblige to look up for you too!!
Cheers
Momo

[v.wells]

James Ryan m Clara Pickstock 1924 2Q Vol 8a p 1320 Birkenhead, Cheshire, Mersyside
Mary Ryan m Frederick Phillips 1917 1Q Vol 8a 624 Wirrall, Cheshire

Is Kate an abbreviation for Kathleen/Catherine?

[maureen54]

Hi V!!
I have wonderd about that as well if it was??? On ancestry it shows her birth registered as Kate Ryan.
Wish we had 1911 Census it would help heaps.
Thanks for the other marriages which I have in my tree,also with your Annie Hughes did she have 3 children...........who where all Ryans
Doreen b 1932
Mavis b 1934
Raymond A b 1937
Cheers
Momo

[v.wells]

It was another Hughes I was thinking of. Annie is a common name so thought I'd seen it. My grandmother was Catherine and married as Kate. My aunt was Kathleen, known as Kate - go figures. The only countries with a later census is Ireland and Canada and the US- different nightmares. I have just finished a nightmare search through Wales so don't want to go there again for a while. It's taken me months to sort thru the thousands of same names - which are just as bad as my English side. I lucked out on the Irish census 1911 purely by chance and the ability to read really terrible writing on some military details.
Your male Ryans may have gone into Military, so check with A... or TNA military records.

[suedent]

I can echo what Vanessa has said. My husband's great-aunt was born Kathleen, married as Kate & was listed on her brothers Attestation Papers as Catherine! My theory is that he had forgotten what Kate had stood for & yet didn't want to put her nickname on official papers.

When beginning my reasearch all my mother-in-law knew was that her aunts were Pol, Lal & Kate. It took my research to find out that they were Mary Ann, Harriet & Kathleen.

[maureen54]

Thanks Vanessa!!|hug|
Sorry have not heard of TNA Military records where do you find them please!!
Thanx
Momo

[maureen54]

Hi Sue
Thankyou as well,read your post and went and checked Cheshire BMD Marriages and the only one came up in the Wirral.........
Kathleen Ryan married George Price Wirral 1924 mmmmmmmmm?????
The mind is :confused:
Wish mum would have mentioned more rellies on her side all I was told by Mum that her Mum died in birth, her mum had brother or sisters and she was raised by her Grandmother & Aunt who where very strict.
My mums dad left this family and remarried a couple of years later.
Cheers
Momo

[Wirral]

I don't know that there is a 1940 Kelly's, but I may be wrong.
I've got a copy. Currently on loan from my car mechanic! Local library also has 20th C Wallasey directories, so I'll take a walk there later today.
1940 Kelly's Directory, 40 Leominster Road, Mrs Julia Dooley.
Forgot to say, they also have the electoral registers.

[maureen54]

Hi Wirral,
Thanks heaps Wirral.|hug|I am trying to make the connection where this Dooley family comes in and why my Mum was living there at the time.
I know on the 1938 one there was an Albert Dooley.
My main reason is trying to find Mums Uncles and Aunties who where Ryans from Desmene St in Seacombe this family is elusive and as mentioned on the previous page a hard |banghead|to knock down.
Also is this directory still available to buy? I will PM re something else as well.
Hope to hear from you soon
Cheers
Momo

[v.wells]

Thanks Vanessa!!|hug|
Sorry have not heard of TNA Military records where do you find them please!!
Thanx
Momo

I started to reply to this but it was -42C last night and I think the outdoor boxes froze and my internet went down.
TNA is the www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

[Wirral]

I know on the 1938 one there was an Albert .................
Also is this directory still available to buy?
Albert had probably died, as in the 1940 Kelly's Directory & in the 1939 Electoral Register there was only Julia DOOLEY at 40 Leominster Road.
There are no Electoral Registers for 1939-1944 because of the war. The next one is 1945 where the occupants were Julia LAWTON, James C. MURPHY & Mary E. MURPHY.
In 1939 & 1945 only Joseph Edward RYAN was at 11 Demesne St.
It is quite possible that Leominster Road is where your mother & her husband were renting a flat as their 1st home, rather than them being related to Julia DOOLEY.

The 1940 Directory that I have is an original book, not a copy on cd or a reprint, so I'm afraid you can't buy one. The latest date available appears to be 1970.

[maureen54]

Thankyou Vanessa & Wirral
I will send you some warm weather over Vanessa and I will have a look at the TNA in the meantime.
Great work Wirral Mary E Murphy which should be Eileen Mary Murphy was my Mum,the strange thing is tho the month that she got married which was 24 Dec 1940 her maternal grandfather Joseph Edward Ryan also died in the same month and year.
Would you know why would he still be listed on th electoral roll was it because the family had not informed the Electoral Office of his death?or because there where still other Ryans living in 11 Demesne St but who?
Oh yes I forgot to mention on his death certificate it says........

Joseph Ryan age 74
15th December 1940
6 Poplar Cottages Neston
General Labourer

Mary Phillips daughter in Attendance
Mill Street
Neston

I am now wondering if I have the wrong person:confused:

Hope you can help me out on this one now.

Cheers
Momo

[Wirral]

This is from the various Wallasey Postal Directories (not the Kelly's Liverpool & Surrounding Districts): nb all surname RYAN

1904-05
Joseph, 51 Palermo St
Joseph E., 22 Beaconsfield Rd
Michael J., 5 Comely Ave
Monica, 20 Kenilworth Rd

1914-15 & 1917-18
Joseph E. , chimney sweeper, 11 Demesne St
Joseph, seaman, 51 Palermo St

1920-21
J.E., jobber, 11 Demesne St
Agnes Kate, 11 Demesne St
Ed., labourer, 7 Tabor St
Jane, 7 Tabor St
Francis, 51 Palemro St
Michael J., 19 Merton Rd
John J., 16 Alfred Rd
Amy Margaret, 16 Alfred Road
Maurice, 17 Wallasey Terrace
Mr, schoolmaster, 166 Wallasey Rd

1924-25
Joseph Edward, bricklayer, 11 Demesne St
Agnes Kate, 11 Demesne St
Mary Kate, 16 Hope St
Joseph, 16 Hope St
James, 10 Duke St
Mary, 10 Duke St
Patrick, 10 Duke St
Joseph anselm, schoolmaster, 166 Wallasey Rd
Mabel, 166 Wallasey Rd
Kathleen, 15 Kimberley Rd

1946 Kelly's Liverpool Directory (includes)
Joseph E., property repr., 11 Demesne St
Mrs Clara, 151 Tollemache Rd, Claughton, Birkenhead
DOOLEY, Mrs Clara, 40 Leominster Rd

1952 Kelly's Liverpool Directory (includes)
GOULBURN Roy Sidney, 40 Leominster Rd
E.H.WRIGHT Ltd., bakers, 11, 13, 15 Demesne St

Could the Joseph RYAN who was at 11 Demesne St in 1945 have been the son born 1904?

[maureen54]

Wow Wirral |jumphappy
Talk about fast research that was quick!! I just went to check my details on my great grandfather Joseph Edward Ryan.
It seems I did order the wrong death certificate.I scoured IGI index,Free BMD index,Cheshire BMD & Ancestry Death Index again & in about 3 hours found it on ancestry.
Details where..............

Joseph E Ryan
Age 80
District Birkenhead Vol 10a Page 99
will now order his death cert online tommorow and wait for another 3 weeks in suspense as usual|nopity|

I am also searching the names you listed from the postal directories.
Re Joseph Ryan in the 1945 did you mean the 1925 who maybe married to Mary Kate?

Re Mrs Clara Ryan 151 Tollemache Rd Claughton I think she maybe also the wife of James Ryan born 1903
I am still looking up the others.
Cheers for now
Momo

[maureen54]

Hi Everyone,
I ordered Joseph Edward Ryan Gr Grandgather)death certificate today along with his daughters (my Grandmother) May Agnes Hannah nee Ryan death certificate maybe we will find other names on them that I could use for adding to my family tree & for research.
They where ordered today 1st Feb and will be despatched on the 7th so I should receive them by 14 - 16 Feb.
Hope you all have a good weekend!!!!:)
Cheers
Maureen