Descendants of Rev William Williams, Pantycelyn

[davidken28]

Does anybody have the full details of the 1st generation from the Rev, Williams? I have William, the curate in Cornwall, and John, the curate at Builth, who is buried with his father; are there other lines?
I am researching an alleged descent through the Hopcyn family of Cilmaengwyn Farm, Ynysmeudwy, Llangiwg, who married into he Lewis family of Ynys y corbwll, Llangiwg. Does this ring any bells?

[John Nicholas]

Hello Davidken,

I certainly hope there are more lines - see my November posting. I'm sure I've read somewhere about 7 surviving children out of 8 (or similar numbers). Unfortunately, only William and John are regularly named. The book on Williams by Glyn Tegai Hughes gives the briefest biographical details and is really a book of literary and religious analysis. There is a two-volume biography in Welsh by Gomer M Roberts, which I think might have a family tree, at least in volume one. You might be able to see or borrow that through your local library, as you live in Anglesey - it's not a volume which is readily available in Buckinghamshire!

Do post details if you have any luck!

John

[davidken28]

John,
Thank you for your detailed reply, and I will most certainly post you, privately, with the result of my researches|book2|

[John Nicholas]

Davidken,

You don't seem to have posted on the Brit-Gen forum over the past year, so I will also do a PM.

I have now acquired a copy of Volume 1 of the Gomer Roberts biography. My Welsh is not really up to a translation but I can understand a certain amount. Anyway, there are 2 family trees - of William Williams's branch, and of the wider Williams family starting 1/2 generations before. There is also a listing of William Williams's children (8, of whom 1 died in infancy), with their marriages, children and (in a couple of cases) grandchildren.

Unfortunately, I see no reference to either Hopcyn (or variants) or Lewis families, except for WW's mother, Dorothy Lewis of Pantycelyn.

Let me know whether you already have what you want or would like more details.

John

[Jen Whitehead]

Hi

I am also researching the family of William Williams Pantycelyn. I am the fourth generation granddaughter of William Williams. Unfortunately the older relatives of my family are now gone, and I cannot remember which daughter we are descended from. Hence the research. As you are aware. William had two sons. Both had no issue. The daughters are Amelia, Anne, Elizabeth, Maria Sophia (died 2 weeks old) Mary Sophia and Sarah. Sarah's descendents live at the farmhouse in Pentregwyn. You mention that the biography by Gomer Roberts lists the marriages, and grandchildren of William. Could you help me with some of daughters marriage details, and grandchildrens names.

Thanks
Jen Whitehead

[John Nicholas]

Jen,

I can send you some images by PM - see my other message.
John

[Kelvin Skyrme]

Hello,
I too am trying to research the descendants of William Williams Pantycelyn as my wife was told by her grandmother many years ago that she was a descendant. If anyone has a copy of the details from the Gomer Roberts biography or any other information I would be grateful.
Best Regards,
Kelvin.

[John Nicholas]

Hello Kelvin,

I will send you by PM some images of the appendix pages from the Gomer Roberts biography. It's all in Welsh, but you'll probably get the gist (if not try asking).

Direct descendants of WW are all through female lines, and therefore not Williams, except perhaps through later marriages into other Williams families. All his sons died without issue.

My grandmother made the same claims as yours (perhaps they all did!). I think there might be something in mine, but it would be a connection with the wider family and not directly with WW, I think.

John

[brentor boy]

Hi John,

My mother-in-law also claims descent from William Williams, but she is now of an age where her powers of recall are limited and unreliable. I have traced her Welsh ancestry back to Davies, Morgan, Llewellyn and Phillips, all born 1790-1810 in Swansea area and Pembrokeshire.

Is it possible to have details of WW's children/grandchildren so that I may check if there is any substance to her claim, please?

Vic

[Kelvin Skyrme]

Well there seem to be a few claimants to the descendancy of William Williams Pantycelyn. No wonder the current incumbent of the farm smiled when I visited last year and told him of my interest, "Yes", he said, "We get quite a few"! Pantycelyn is worth a visit though, Mr & Mrs Williams (he's a descendant through a female line marrying another Williams), were glad to show us around and we signed the visitors book and took a few photos.
My interest stems from my wife's Gr Grandmother, Margaret Williams, born Aberdare. We thought we may be on track when we found that her Grandfather, William Williams, was born in Llandovery, near to Pantycelyn, but there the trail goes cold. The connection may have been wishful thinking on the grandparents' part but I'll keep digging where I can. Thanks to all for the help.
Kelvin.

[Rhys John]

In a similar position trying to prove truth of family story. One new source. William Williams 1791 will is now online at NLW site, so helps by telling us which daughters were married, and their married names as at 1791. Amelia married Thomas Howel (hard to read) and Anne married Philip Thomas. Another strand says that Sarah later married into Griffith(s) family. And of course all may have married or remarried after 1791. But hope this helps you and others.

Rhys John

[nigelhadley]

Hello,

John if you're still on the forum I'd be very interested if you could send me the appendix pages of the Gomer Roberts biography.
I am descended from WWP's grandfather - you can see me links here;
http://www.hadley.org.uk/family-tree/jeffreys_williams_gameson-family-tree-1a.htm
Would be really interested to clear up any further links.

Regards

Nigel

[John Nicholas]

Hello Nigel,

Yes, I think I've seen your online tree before. I'll send you some images in a private message.

John

[Tristan Clee]

I'm believe I am 5th Generation of William Williams Pantycelyn through his son Rees Williams (1759)

[John Nicholas]

Hello Tristan,

I am sorry to disappoint you, but the authoritative biography of WWP (in Welsh) indicates but two sons, William and John, both clergymen and both dying unmarried and without issue. There is no evidence of a Rees (or Rhys) in the relevant appendices showing direct family and the wider clan.

John

[dlpbach]

Hi

I am also researching the family of William Williams Pantycelyn. I am the fourth generation granddaughter of William Williams. Unfortunately the older relatives of my family are now gone, and I cannot remember which daughter we are descended from. Hence the research. As you are aware. William had two sons. Both had no issue. The daughters are Amelia, Anne, Elizabeth, Maria Sophia (died 2 weeks old) Mary Sophia and Sarah. Sarah's descendents live at the farmhouse in Pentregwyn. You mention that the biography by Gomer Roberts lists the marriages, and grandchildren of William. Could you help me with some of daughters marriage details, and grandchildrens names.

Thanks
Jen Whitehead

Hello Jen,

I believe I am also 4th generation, but possibly 5th. My grandfather was either the son or grandson of Sarah. The details I have are vague because it's just my mother's memories of things her father used to mention when she was small, although I have an uncle whose done some research. I don't know if I may be able to be of some help.

[John Nicholas]

I have received the following PM from dlpbach:

“I'm attempting to trace back my family line to William Williams, and am really only going from vague details that my Mother remembers from when she was young. My Grandfather was Raymond Davies, and was the grandson of Sarah Griffiths who I believe was William William's daughter. My Mother believes that Sarah may be buried in Rhydgoch cemetery in Pontardulais.

If you have any information that you believe may help me in this little project, I would be so grateful.

Many thanks,
Debbie”

As I think it is not very helpful to have such conversations off-forum, I am answering Debbie here. This also gives me the chance to make some general points which others might find useful.

1. There is something wrong with the information Debbie has been given. As I am definitely NOT an expert on William WILLIAMS Pantycelyn (WWP), least of all on his descendants, I cannot say what the error is. A point to bear in mind is that, if all the people who claim some kinship with him in modern-day Wales were correct, he’d have needed about 150 children!
2. I do have a copy of a definitive biography by Gomer Morgan Roberts. This book is in Welsh, a language in which I am, shall we say, challenged. Naturally the biography concentrates on the life and works of WWP and any genealogical information is limited to a couple of appendices.
3. From the biography, the children of WWP (1717-1791) and Mary FRANCIS (1723-1799) were:
Amelia Mariah (1750-1846) married Thomas POWELL
William (1751-1818)
John (1754-1828)
Anne (1756-1831) married Philip THOMAS
Mary Sophia (1758-) died before 1762??
Elizabeth Margaretta (1761-1833)
Maria Sophia (1762-1853) married Samuel GRIFFITHS
Sarah (1764-1855) married William DAVIES
4. As far as I know, all the marriages of the children are shown. In particular, the two sons remained unmarried and so no legitimate descendants acquired the Williams surname from WWP.
5. Despite WWP’s ‘adoption’ by non-conformism and a sometimes fractious relationship with his church superiors because of his style and beliefs, WWP was, and remained throughout his life, a clergyman of the Anglican Church. His two sons were also clergymen of the established church.

So, Debbie, I’m sorry I can’t give you any confirmation of what you’ve been told. If you’ve established a link to a Sarah Griffiths, should you consider the possibility that she was the daughter of Maria Sophia and Samuel, and therefore the granddaughter of WWP? But now is the time for certificates and parish register entries (or non-conformist equivalents) to really link people together.

John

[webfusion]

I am a descendant of William in that I am a great great great great grandchild of his on my grandmothers side. I would really like to obtain some lineage of my history as I was adopted at birth. Thanks

[smee]

The discussion on William Williams is most interesting. Does anyone know of his sisters? I believe he had 3 but family trees only show one, Mary (1721-1751), who married Morgan Price.
The background to my query is : - 'that Morgan Thomas married Catherine , the grand daughter of a sister of William Williams Pantycelyn and that sister married David Rees Penhydd, father of Sheneyn Penhydd. The correct name of Sheneyn Penhydd was Sheneyn Rees but he changed it to Sheneyn Thomas at the request of an old preacher named William Thomas of Pyle.'

I think Thomas Rees was Sheneyn 's father and Sheneyn was a nephew of David Rees Penhydd. My information is based on 'The History of Llansamlet' by Rev Samlet Williams.

Any help welcome.

[John Nicholas]

I believe that you are right, Smee; William Williams had 3 sisters, only one of whom is named in the biography by Gomer Morgan Roberts. The sequence of children born to John Williams and Dorothy Lewis is given by Roberts as: 2 sons (unnamed), who died young; a daughter, unnamed; William; Mary, whom you mention, 1721-51; a further unnamed daughter. Not surprisingly, any marriages or offspring of the two unnamed daughters are not shown.

I am not familiar with the book on Llansamlet. However, that name "Sheneyn" looks very suspect. Are you sure it is not Siencyn, pronounced Shenkin and the origin of the surname Jenkins?

John

[smee]

John,
Thanks for your reply. I have done some more research. You are correct...Sheneyn should be Siencyn. Siencyn Penhydd is Jenkin Thomas, who can be found in the Welsh Biography Online. His father is Thomas Rees of Penhydd. I believe Thomas' brother, David married Gwenllian Williams, William Williams' sister but I have yet to find the parish records to confirm. I did see a family tree on Ancestry of the Thomas Rees line.
Do you know the name of the sister, who is named in the biography by Gomer Morgan Roberts?

Pete

[John Nicholas]

John,

Do you know the name of the sister, who is named in the biography by Gomer Morgan Roberts?

Pete

Pete,
The only sister of WW mentioned in the family tree in the Roberts biography is Mary, whom you had already mentioned. My understanding of Welsh isn't up to scouring the text of the book to look for any other names, but the absence of names in the family tree suggests to me that they aren't known. And if a biographer can't identify them, perhaps that says something about the availability or otherwise of the information?

Anyway, best of luck!

John

[Righton]

I have a copy of a family tree given to me 20 years ago at Pantycelyn. It is detailed , hand written and come down from 1656 to 1982. Not sure how I can share it. I am new to this site.

[John Nicholas]

I have a copy of a family tree given to me 20 years ago at Pantycelyn. It is detailed , hand written and come down from 1656 to 1982. Not sure how I can share it. I am new to this site.

Hello Righton and welcome,

First of all, are you happy that the chart you have can be copied and shared, free of copyright? If so, have you the means to scan it or photograph it? If the latter, I find daylight usually better than flash, because you can get unreadable bits of over-illumination with flash sometimes. When you have an electronic image, look for the icon at the top of the message box which offers "Insert Image", and follow that.

Good luck,
John

[Righton]

undefined
Hope this works. I have overlapped the pages as my copy is on 1 large sheet. Hope you can read it all. The writing is incredibly small. Anyway good luck . I too have an obit of David MORRIS b 1832 Llandefaelog Carm who claims to be a descendant of Wm Williams.

http://www.british-genealogy.com/extensions/uploads/e8b51783-1119-4c0b-a3c8-fda5e0f6fa88.jpg

http://www.british-genealogy.com/extensions/uploads/92ddf7cf-84e8-4df4-bc07-17b9978f73db.jpg

[Dipper]

Hi Jen,
just noticed your message....about William Williams Pantycelyn.....my story so far.....I'm in Australia, Tasmania.....and my grandfather, William Kenneth Williams is believed to be related to William Williams...he went to Wales back in the 1960s.....and wrote a few things down that relate to the Hymn writer....he also believed he was related to Reverend Thomas Williams who built the Bethesda'r fro Chapel in 1806....I believe that Thomas Williams falls down the line on on my 4th gen. grandmother's side (Elizabeth Williams)....(he was her grandfather)...I'm trying to find out where William Williams falls in on my family tree.....at this stage I think he falls on the side of Elizabeth's husband possibly....(William Williams ...of course he had to have a name like that...there were soooo many william williams lol).....if you can shed any light it would be much appreciated :-)......if there is a link it must come from one of the daughters of William Williams Pantycelyn.....have you got the full list of the daughters and their history ??
cheers,

Michael Di Pietro

[Redtogreen]

Can you PM me a copy of the genealogy from the book as well?


Hello Davidken,

I certainly hope there are more lines - see my November posting. I'm sure I've read somewhere about 7 surviving children out of 8 (or similar numbers). Unfortunately, only William and John are regularly named. The book on Williams by Glyn Tegai Hughes gives the briefest biographical details and is really a book of literary and religious analysis. There is a two-volume biography in Welsh by Gomer M Roberts, which I think might have a family tree, at least in volume one. You might be able to see or borrow that through your local library, as you live in Anglesey - it's not a volume which is readily available in Buckinghamshire!

Do post details if you have any luck!

John

[Sherrilynn]

John,
Thank you for your detailed reply, and I will most certainly post you, privately, with the result of my researches|book2| I am a descendant and would like to learn as much as I can, I have traced and found supportive documents from where my family immigrated from wales to indiana, us