Events in Norfolk history

[Geoffers]

It seems fairly quiet on the Norfolk forum at the moment, so to try and liven things up a little, imagine it's Christmas Day.......You've opened up all those presents bought by thoughtful relatives from ACDB and there's one gift left........ a time machine which will work three times (well alright, four if you want to return to today at the end of your travels).

What three events in Norfolk history would you want to see and why? Would it be something trivial or major? The baptism or marriage of an ancestor? Kett's Rebellion, Swing Riots, Civil Wars - it could be anything. I suppose I'd better start things off, but do post a reply and let's see what interests you.....

My first event would be the great storm of 21 Jan 1802 - one of my 4xgt grandparents was killed when a tree was blown down on her in Horstead. It may seem a bit morbid, but I'd be interested to know how people coped with tragedies such as this and how they pulled together to help each other.

The second would be the birth of my 8xgt grandfather Andrew Low in the second half of the 17th century - just so as I could ask his parents what their names were!

The last is a bit of a cheat as it wasn't a single event, but my family came from the area around the Broads and I'd like to see the peat cuttings as they were dug and the landscape around the area; the fields and woods the closed communities that were the small villages - and to see the cuttings flood to become the Broads we know today.

Geoffers
Charlbury, Oxfordshire

[revdfg]

OK. Here's one. I don't know how far I would have to travel back - but I'd like to go back to Lowestoft to see how bloaters were produced. All I know is that the bloater is a variant of the kipper - a herring smoked in some way. But more than seeing how it was made I'd like to taste one. Are they still available? Does anyone sell them by post? Perhaps I'd choose about 1850 for date then I could enjoy a bloater in the company of folk from my tree.

[Ron Leech]

Hi Geoffers


Mine's quite simple I want to go back to the marriage of my gg grand parent (John Leech) in Norwich, September 1843 and find out who the hell his parents were!

Ron Leech

[Geoffers]

[QUOTE=revdfg]OK. Here's one. I don't know how far I would have to travel back - but I'd like to go back to Lowestoft to see how bloaters were produced. All I know is that the bloater is a variant of the kipper - a herring smoked in some way.QUOTE]

What a great idea - not perhaps a major event on the grander scale of things, but the start of herring fishing in September would certainly have had a major impact locally, not least with the arrival of the Scottish lasses who gutted the fish, following the fishing fleets down the east coast I've read that the height of the fishing industry was just before the 1st World War, when 330,000 barrels of herring were exported.

If you are interested in Lowestoft fishing, I understand that the museum there has a card index of fishermen, from which it is possible to follow the career of an individual and the boats on which he worked - if you have ancestors who were fishermen, it may be worth considering.

Geoffers

[Geoffers]

Hi Geoffers..Mine's quite simple I want to go back to the marriage of my gg grand parent (John Leech) in Norwich, September 1843 and find out who the hell his parents were! Ron Leech
Isn't it the simplest ones that are the most annoying? I wonder what sort of wedding he had and who was there. Is John Leechs' father shown on the marriage certificate?

If it helps at all, freebmd shows:
Sept 1843, LEECH, John, Norwich, v13, p399

one of the women on this page is: ROLL, Ann

which makes me wonder if this is the 1851 census (transcript) entry for the family..?

HO107/1816 f384 p18
17, Sayers Buildings, Heigham, Norwich
John LEECH, Head, Mar, 33, Ag Lab, Norwich, St. Miles----
Ann LEECH, Wife, Mar, 31, ---, Norwich, St. Margrets
James LEECH, Son, Unm, 7, Schl, Norwich, St. Stephen
William LEECH, Son, , 1, , Norwich, Heigham
Thomas ROLL, FatL, Widr, 63, Pauper, Norwich, Heigham
Mary ROLL, SisL, Unm, 24, Cotton Filler, Norwich, St. Benedicts

The problem from this transcript is John's birthplace of St.Miles...? as of course there isn't such a parish in Norwich - I would guess this is one of the three St.Michaels

Geoffers

[Ron Leech]

John Leech probably had a poor wedding judging by where they later lived. And yes you are right he married Ann Roll, I have a copy of their wedding certificate. His father is also listed as John Leech, carpenter and he is possibly lived at St Stephens St at the time of his sons wedding, but I haven't been able to find out any more as yet. The witnesses don't help as their names don't mean anything to us. Ann Roll died as a result of child birth in May 1854, the child died as well, we have copies of the death certificates.

Back in the 1851 census she is listed as having 2 sons, James and William but my sister and I believe that another son, John aged 4 is missing from the list and possibly another child, Sarah Ann born about 1846 who may have only lived a short time.

Of all of these the only birth record we have found is for William, again we have a copy of the certificate. We are descended from James who had moved himself to London by 1871 and married there in 1872.

Except for James listed in the 1881 and 1901 census we have not been able to find as yet the families. It's a little like thick fog clearing patchily for a brief period of time to allow us to see these people around 1843 to 1854 and then they disappear back into the thick fog again.

Ron Leech

[Pam Downes]

It's a little like thick fog clearing ........


That's no fog, Ron. It's the smoke from Palling parish registers going up in flames :eek: - probably in 1779, as the PRs for 1701 - 1779 are missing.
So that's the first stop in my time machine. If I couldn't stop the fire, I could hopefully copy what was in the registers before they were lost. And hopefully what I would copy would supply all the missing gaps in my EMPSON family saga. I have a couple of glimpses via the ATs and BTs, the most crucial being the baptism of Thomas in 1788 with the note that he was born in 1762, son of Henry and Mary. (Geoffers has informed me that Henry EMPSON of Ridlington and Mary PESTIL of Walcote were married in Neatishead March 25th 1751.)

Then it's fast forward to the 1900s. Probably 1955, as that's when a Thomas Empson died in Essex S.W. RD. I want to ask him if he's the great-grandson of the afore-mentioned Thomas. And if so, why did he and the family move from Yarmouth to Bethnal Green in the early 1900s? What caused him him and his 2nd wife Mary QUARTERMAIN (Quarterman?) to move around so much, their children being born in Eton, Brighton, Steyning and Rochford RDs. What was the argument which caused son Thomas born 1900 in Yarmouth to leave home? Has my aunt remembered correctly when she says that she used to write to Mary in Penzance - and if so, why the move from Penzance to Essex?
And finally back to 1891 and Thomas' future mother-in-law. She was born Mary Ann KELF, in Norwich c1852. In 1874 in Yarmouth she married George TAYLOR a fisherman. By 1891 she is married to James Long, and I want to know when and where her first hubby George died. With a surname like Taylor, it's a bit 'needle in haystack', especially as he's not at home on the 1881 census.
And then with a few more brickwalls of varying heights knocked down, I can come home and have a nice cup of tea.

Pam Downes

[revdfg]

Thanks Geoffers. Next time I'm in Lowestoft I'll look it up.

[Ron Leech]

What caused him him and his 2nd wife Mary QUARTERMAIN (Quarterman?) to move around so much, their children being born in Eton, Brighton, Steyning and Rochford RDs. What was the argument which caused son Thomas born 1900 in Yarmouth to leave home? Has my aunt remembered correctly when she says that she used to write to Mary in Penzance - and if so, why the move from Penzance to Essex?
And finally back to 1891 and Thomas' future mother-in-law. She was born Mary Ann KELF, in Norwich c1852. In 1874 in Yarmouth she married George TAYLOR a fisherman. By 1891 she is married to James Long, and I want to know when and where her first hubby George died. With a surname like Taylor, it's a bit 'needle in haystack', especially as he's not at home on the 1881 census.
Pam Downes
Hi Pam,

Now apart from the shops there only one significant thing at Eton! I can think of three possible outcomes (obviously there are others), school master, chruch minister (but then I don't think CofE clergy moved about that much) and lastly the hunt. Were their fox hounds in the other locations?

As for Taylor's what a nightmare, at least it has become easier to track births once they included the mothers maiden name.

[Pam Downes]

Hi Pam,

Now apart from the shops there only one significant thing at Eton! I can think of three possible outcomes (obviously there are others), school master, chruch minister (but then I don't think CofE clergy moved about that much) and lastly the hunt. Were their fox hounds in the other locations?



Hi Ron,

Thanks for your thoughts but I don't think 'labourer', followed by three 'general labourer' on various certificates and a census entry quite equate to Eton!
I can think that the hunt can also be ruled out as previous residences were in Palling, Yarmouth and Bethnal Green.
I believe the connection to be fish and from somewhere in the back of my mind I have 'fishmonger' in connection with Bethnal Green, but can't think how that got into my subconscious unless I found an entry in the online historical directories.
Brighton and Steyning fit the fish theory, and Rochford RD (birth of at least one child) covers the area around Southend-on-Sea, and would provide a connection for Thomas' death in an Essex RD. Penzance would also connect with fish, but it's a long way to go.
After Christmas I must send for a few certificates which will hopefully solve part of the puzzle of Thomas Empson, born 1875 in Palling.
Then it's a waiting game till the 1911 and 1921 census are released!

Pam

[Ron Leech]

Hi Ron,

Thanks for your thoughts but I don't think 'labourer', followed by three 'general labourer' on various certificates and a census entry quite equate to Eton!

Pam
I had that problem with my lot from Norwich. The one that moved to London married in Bethnal Green and had progressed from labourer to boot mender. The fishmonger looks a good solution, they undoubtedly had one in Eton.

[shazie]

There is still an original smoke house in Lowestoft. I saw it on TV a few months ago. They had herrings hanging on long poles being smoked. Not sure if they call them bloaters or not.

So next time in Lowestoft give 'em a try!

Shazie:)