Newbie looking for MERRY, INGHAM, HEPPER in Yorkshire [Archive] - British Genealogy & Family History Forums

en2gen

03-01-2008, 12:25 AM

Hello - I have been researching my English family history from California for the last 15 or so years. I was fortunate to have a great uncle who had started the family tree before he was killed in WW1. I also was fortunate to have both sets of grandparents emigrate from England to Canada...with lots of photos and correspondence. So, I at least had some first-hand research tools.

My father's ancestors were pretty much all Yorkshire folk. I'm stuck though on a ggg grandfather, Joseph MERRY, a supervisor of Excise, who was born in 1801 in Scarborough and died in 1871 in Birmingham. Family notes say his father was one John MERRY, gentleman. The only Joseph MERRY I can find born in 1801 is the son of Joseph MERRY, shoe maker. I've been up against that brick wall for several years now!

Descendants of Joseph MERRY were all churchmen and I could sure use some help there,too. Joseph's son, Charles Montgomery MERRY was a Wesleyan minister when married in 1848. Shows up in Jersey in 1851 census...then my grandfather is born in London in 1854 with Charles being ordained in the COE by 1856 at Spofforth, Yorkshire. First time I have heard of a "conversion" going from non-conformist to COE! I would like to find records of his Wesleyan ministry.

Other ancestors on my father's line include INGHAMs of Wortley/Leeds, owners of Ingham & Sons Brickworks, and HEPPERs (originally from Rylstone) who were mostly auctioneers and estate agents. BINNS were also part of this lot and they were solicited by the Sultan of Turkey in about 1843 to set up the first mohair manufacturing plant. So, this is an interesting group and I would like to find some living descendants to share information and memorabilia with.

My mother's side is also predominately from Yorkshire....Leeds and Bradford. Surnames include SPEIGHT, BOYES, FIRTH, KEIGHLEY, DURRANT, CARTER, SHAW. The BOYES were landscape artists in Bradford. My mother's great uncle was Thomas SPEIGHT who was the mayor of Bradford in 1898. Again, I have some great photos to share with living relations. I would also like to know if anyone has any tips for researching officers of the Masonic Lodge. I have a FIRTH ancestor who was secretary of a Masonic Lodge in Leeds in 1819 and associated with a Masonic Lodge in York in 1814.

If anyone has any thoughts on what I've written, please advise. I'm sure I must break this all down and concentrate on one brick wall at a time, but this is an overview of my areas of interest. Thanks!

SBSFamilyhistory

03-01-2008, 10:22 AM

My father's ancestors were pretty much all Yorkshire folk. I'm stuck though on a ggg grandfather, Joseph MERRY, a supervisor of Excise, who was born in 1801 in Scarborough and died in 1871 in Birmingham. Family notes say his father was one John MERRY, gentleman. The only Joseph MERRY I can find born in 1801 is the son of Joseph MERRY, shoe maker. I've been up against that brick wall for several years now!

I have found Joseph Merry occupation Excise Officer, on the 1851 census. Joseph and his family were living at 92 Herbut(? spelling) Street Wolverhampton. It appears his year of birth on the Census shows as 1898 and not 1801, that may account for you not being able to find him. I always give a +/- 5 years on early census to allow for error.

Anyway back to the census record for joseph and his family.

John Merry 3
Joseph Merry 53
Josh Merry 22
Mary Merry 38
Mary Matilda Merry 4
Robert Merry 1
Sarah Ann Merry 18

Class: HO107; Piece: 2019; Folio: 845; Page: 26.

the 1861 Census however has his year of birth as 1801! this often happens so don't worry.

the family are now in Aston Birmingham, my family stopping ground for many years.

The only odd thing is that there is no child by the name of Charles, ummm

I am certain they are the correct family as what a coincidence it would be to have two Joseph Merry's from Scarborough who were born about the same time and both Excise Officers. Now that would be scarey.

Back to 1861 they are at 164 Thomas Street Aston Birmingham
Ellen Mary Merry 9
Henry Merry 10
John W Merry 13
Joseph Merry 60
Mary Merry 48
Mary Isabella Merry 15
Robert T Merry 11

Class: RG9; Piece: 2184; Folio: 38; Page: 33.

on the 1871 Census Scarbrough appers to have moved to Northamptonshire in transcripton

Joseph has retired, Superannuated Inland Revenue Officer. They now live in 14 Victoria Road Aston
Ellen Merry 18
Henry Merry 19
Joseph Merry 70
Mary Merry 58
Mary Merry 24
Robert Merry 21
Class: RG10; Piece: 3158; Folio: 9; Page: 13.

I hope this helps you with your search

Sue

Geoffers

03-01-2008, 12:12 PM

My father's ancestors were pretty much all Yorkshire folk. I'm stuck though on a ggg grandfather, Joseph MERRY, a supervisor of Excise, who was born in 1801 in Scarborough and died in 1871 in Birmingham. Family notes say his father was one John MERRY, gentleman. The only Joseph MERRY I can find born in 1801 is the son of Joseph MERRY, shoe maker.

Descriptions of status can vary according to:

1) How people perceived themselves
2) Advance or decline in life
3) Wishful thinking by later researchers

Whether he was a gent or shoemaker, I would expect him to have left a will; do you know when John popped his clogs? Does Joseph appear in any census returns - 1841 or hopefully 1851/1861?

Can you locate Joseph in an early directory such as those sold by The Parish Chest (http://www.parishchest.com/)? I have Pigot's 1834 Directory of Yorkshire. There are no MERRYs under 'Gentry and Clergy' and none under 'Boot and Shoe Makers' in Scarborough.

Descendants of Joseph MERRY were all churchmen...Joseph's son, Charles Montgomery MERRY was a Wesleyan minister when married in 1848. I would like to find records of his Wesleyan ministry.

John Ryland University Library has an index of ministers (http://www.library.manchester.ac.uk/specialcollections/collections/methodist/using/indexofministers/)where he might appear. The Library has a very large collection of other documents relating to Wesleyans

Non-conformist records are now online see this link (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/news/stories/172.htm)

Try the Yorkshire Surnames List (http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/YKSlist/yks.htm)to see if anyone else is resrearching the same families as you.

GENUKI (http://www.genuki.org.uk/) is a useful place for information on family history research in the UK. This page (http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/) gives links to the various county collections.

Copper

03-01-2008, 12:59 PM

I used to be a member of the Merry one name study. I think this group folded due to the ill health of the husband of the lady in charge.

I have kept all of the newsletters and found this in the winter issue of 1995. One downside of the group is that we were all anonymous and we did not get to see what other researchers sent to the editor/lady conducting the one name study.

Somebody had sent in a partial tree which they had inherited from their great uncle George William Henry Merry. (He died in WW1)

This person had confirmed the information up to the second wife and issue of Joseph Merry b 6 Jan 1801. This person had lost track of this Joseph Merry and his family after his first wife Elizabeth Pratt had died and he remarried.

This person was seeking information on this Joseph Merry of Birmingham, born 6 Jan 1801 (Scarborough?) d 8 Nov 1871 (Birmingham?). Son of John Merry of Scarborough b 1778. Brother John Merry and possibly 2 other siblings. Who was their mother? married Elizabeth Pratt 25 Feb 1822. Who was Joseph's second wife? He was an Excise Officer at Pateley Bridge, Whixley, Dudley, Wolverhampton and Birmingham.

The editor replied with the following info

Probate
Admin of Joseph Merry, died 8 Nov 1871 Birmingham, to, Mary Merry widow, of Victoria Rd, Aston Park. Effects under £200

Admin of Rev Charles Montgomery, died Wetherby, Yorks. 25 Nov 1876, to Annie Eleanor Merry, widow of Sandal, nr Wakefield, under £200

Rev Charles Montgomery Merry, clerk, Administration of effects under £200 to Annie Eleanor Merry, widow, 4 May 1877

I will check the rest of the newsletters later. I hope that this info helps.

Geoffers

03-01-2008, 1:06 PM

Further to my previous post, I forgot to add:

The National Archives (TNA) at kew has numerous research guides which can help lead you through available sources there. See this link for Customs and Excise (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=234)

Also, go to TNA's catalogue as you should be able to order your chap's entry papers into the Excise. Click on this link (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/default.asp)
and then 'Search the Catalogue'
Carry out the following search:
'Word or phrase' - merry
Leave dates blank
Department or series code - CUST

You should get two hits, the second will be of interest and you should be able to order a copy online. Maybe the first hit is also related?

Copper

03-01-2008, 2:07 PM

Here I am again with info from the Merry newsletter Summer 2000.

The same person contacted the editor with his or her latest searches.

Scarborough parish records only have one Joseph born about 1801 and he was the son of Jospeh Merry, cobbler not John Merry, gentleman.

A marriage certificate for Joseph's second marriage was bought and his father was J Merry, so not helpful.

According to the birth records for Joseph's children (1822-1824) Joseph was a joiner. In 1841 they found several of Joseph's children living with a Richard and Mary Smith in Scarborough. Jospeh and wife not around. Assumption has been made that the wife and last son (Henry) had died about 1838.

When the bpt of Joseph son of Joseph and Sarah was found it was noted that there was also a daughter Mary born 1780. It would be easy to assume that Mary Merry was Mary Smith in 1841. This would mean that his inherited tree was incorrect and that Joseph was the son of Joseph and not John, gentleman.

I think that entry and retirement papers for excise officers would help solve this problem.

Copper

03-01-2008, 2:16 PM

The editor of the Merry newsletter gave this interesting info

There is a death of a John Merry in the GRO index in 1844 Sep, Scarborough registration district

Baines Directory of 1823 for professions and trades in Scarborough
Boot and shoemakers - Merry Joseph, King street

White's Directory 1840 professions and trades for Scarborough
Miscellany of trades - Merry John, gent, 5 King street Grammar School; Wm Merry, h 5 King street

Post Office, professions and trades for Scarborough in Bulmer's Directory of 1890
Church of England
All Saints', Falsgrave Road - Rev R Brown-Borthwick, vicar, Rev W M Merry, M A

Geoffers

03-01-2008, 2:47 PM

White's Directory 1840 professions and trades for Scarborough
Miscellany of trades - Merry John, gent, 5 King street Grammar School; Wm Merry, h 5 King street

and thence to:

1841 census
HO107/1266/4 f39 p19
King Street, Sarborough
William MERRY, 28, schoolmaster
John MERRY, 50, Ind
Faith MERRY, 50,
Mary MERRY, 25
William MERRY, 53, farmer
(All born in Yorkshire)
There are then various pupils, servants

I love the name Mary Merry - say that after a couple of pints

Copper

03-01-2008, 2:56 PM

I love the name Mary Merry - say that after a couple of pints

|biggrin|

I have a number of Mary Merrys in my tree. Mine are in Cambridgeshire and Norfolk. They had morphed into Merrywest/Merry-West/Merry West/West/ Merry by the time they moved into Norfolk. They have been hard to track down as they never knew which name was the surname. My mother was a West!

en2gen

04-01-2008, 4:28 AM

Thank you all for replying to my introductory saga related to Joseph MERRY from Scarborough. I have traced Joseph and his descendants from Scarborough to Birmingham through the censuses. However, I never could find Joseph in the 1841 census...just his children living at the home of their supposed aunt and uncle in Scarborough, the Smiths. My assumption is that Joseph was, by that time, a widower and was likely off doing excise officer work. Hence the children were staying with the Smiths. Neither Joseph MERRY or his wife, Elizabeth, or their last child, Henry MERRY born about 1838 are found in 1841. But, I can't find any burial records in the Scarborough PRs either. I don't know where they could have died.

The citations and information from the MERRY one-name study are from me. Geeze, I really have been on this hunt for over 13 years! I did find the MERRY family in Scarborough and found John MERRY, gent. on King Street. But, since he was age 50 in the 1841 census, it doesn't compute that he would have had a son born in 1801...he would have been about 10. Trying to find a will has been non-productive as well. There is also no record in the Scarborough PRs of a John MERRY. My biggest bit of confirming information that Joseph is the son of Joseph MERRY, the cobbler, is that the children were living with a Mary and Richard Smith in 1841. And, as was noted iin one of the responses...Joseph, the cobbler did have a daughter, Mary, who could have been my Joseph's elder sister.

A cousin did go to Kew and get the entry papers for young Joseph when he applied for the excise position. Unfortunately, they say nothing about his father. At the time, however, Joseph was a joiner. In my thinking, it seems more plausible that a cobbler's son would be a joiner than that a gentleman's son would take such a position....am I right there? So, all roads lead to Joseph being the son of Joseph, the cobbler than the son of John the Gentleman....but I wish I could confirm that, as there are some lingering doubts.

I did order the marriage cert for Joseph's second marriage to Mary GIBSON, but, alas, both of the father's names are shown only with their first name initial "J". One thing I have not done is to try to take a look at the PR. I don't think the PRs show father's names, though, do they? I have never seen a cert with just the first name initial....just my luck!

I shall do a further look at some of the links you all have provided and am very grateful for the time you have spent on my behalf. Great group!!
Louise

Geoffers

04-01-2008, 6:36 AM

At the time, however, Joseph was a joiner. In my thinking, it seems more plausible that a cobbler's son would be a joiner than that a gentleman's son would take such a position

What is the source for the earlier assertion that Joseph was the son of John? Has someone seen an abbreviation 'Joh' and assumed that it was a mis-spelt John rather than a contracted Jo(sep)h?

Has acceptance of the inherited famly notes led you astray?? If I could not duplicate the earlier research by following sources provided, then this would lead me to doubt if it was accurate.

Re the 1841 census - don't that this was the first census and ages were rounded down, in so doing so mistakes were made. Also as the census is a copy - mistakes could have been made in transcription. However - if not the father of Joseph, he may have been related and following him back may lead you to the ancestors of your chap.

Re the entry book for the Excise - Curses

Do the Land tax returns show the spread of the surname around this part of Yorkshire?

I did order the marriage cert for Joseph's second marriage to Mary GIBSON, but, alas, both of the father's names are shown only with their first name initial "J". One thing I have not done is to try to take a look at the PR.

The PR should be the same - but until you look and confirm for yourself, thre will always be a nagging doubt. Are the names of witnesses any help?

en2gen

04-01-2008, 7:22 AM

I appreciate your comments about confirming sources. That's why I've been stuck for over a decade on this. When I started my personal research, I was guided by previous research done by my grandfather's brother in the early 1900s. Of course, at that time, his research must have been by personal observation of PRs, memorials, etc. He was an architect by profession, and created some very nice family trees. He took one line back to 1605, and confirming research has found few, if any, errors in his research. On the MERRY line, he had only gone back to John MERRY (1774-1846) "Gentleman of Scarboro"...specific dates, but no citation of sources. Uncle George was killed in France in 1914 before he could finish his research. I inherited his journals and work. I guess it is the accuracy of his other work that keeps me searching after what may well be a red herring.

That source you supplied for TNA Customs records may prove things out. More later on that.

SBSFamilyhistory

04-01-2008, 9:28 AM

and thence to:

1841 census
HO107/1266/4 f39 p19
King Street, Sarborough
William MERRY, 28, schoolmaster
John MERRY, 50, Ind
Faith MERRY, 50,
Mary MERRY, 25
William MERRY, 53, farmer
(All born in Yorkshire)
There are then various pupils, servants

I love the name Mary Merry - say that after a couple of pints

I have also noticed that on the same page there are another group of Merrys.

Charles aged 14
Joseph aged 12
Elizabeth aged 11
Sarah aged 8
Source Citation: Class: HO107; Folio: 40; Page: 4

At the top of the page the first person is listed a pauper, could they have been in a workhouse? unfortunately the previous page does not help.

Would these have been the children from Joseph's first marriage?

en2gen I hope I have not added to any confussion

Sue

PS

Geoff was there a Census done for those away from home in 1841?

Geoffers

04-01-2008, 10:40 AM

Geoff was there a Census done for those away from home in 1841?

Not as such, those away from home should appear where they were staying overnight - though obviously many must be missing who were in transit. Occasionally I have come across entries where those who appear to be parents have proudly noted on the census that their son is a student at a college; in a couple of instances I have seen entries where someone is recorded as being a officer in the RN and away at sea.

I can't remember if it's been mentioned before in the thread, but in case it ties in, I note that in 1841 at Pickering there is

HO107/1260/25 f8 p10
Lockton (north of Pickering), Yorkshire
Joseph MERRY, 80, ind, bn Yorks
Esther MERRY, 40, bn Yorks

Had Joseph returned to the parish of his birth? Or is this a completely different family?

On the MERRY line, he had only gone back to John MERRY (1774-1846) "Gentleman of Scarboro"...specific dates, but no citation of sources.

Most, if not all of us have made mistakes in research, it would be surprising if your Uncle had not perhaps made an error; and it by no means detracts from his other work. But in your shoes, I'd follow what I could show to be accurate.

Searching the GRO index of deaths records these John MERR(E)Ys who died 1845-7
Jun 1845 - John MERREY - Headington
Dec 1845 - John MERRY - Stoke on Trent
Jun 1846 - John MERRY - Richmond S
Mar 1847 - John Fordham MERRY - Camberwell
Sep 1847 - John MERRY - Lichfield
Dec 1847 - John MERRY - Cockermouth

So, the only two deaths which might possibly have occurred in 1846 are John MERRY in Richmond, Surrey and John Fordham MERRY in Camberwell.
Is there anything in the notes which suggests that John MERRY had a second name? If you really wanted to, you might try a speculative purchase of a certificate for the Richmond death in case John MERRY travelled there.

Copper

04-01-2008, 1:27 PM

There is this death -

1844 Sep Learbro' 24 275 - John Merry

I have checked this ref and it is one of those typed sheets. Free BMD have made a note that this is not a recognised district. They have decided it might be Loughborough but then that vol number does not tally. The vol number 24 does cover Scarborough!

I would order this death certificate but mention that the district is incorrect in the GRO index and you think it should be Scarborough.

en2gen

04-01-2008, 6:14 PM

Ok, I hope I am using this reply process correctly, but I will admit to being confused. Here goes though, because maybe I need some help with my assumptions from the 1841 census. Those MERRY children that you cite, are mine. Charles MERRY is my gg grandfather who later went on to be a Wesleyan minister, then a vicar in the COE (side note: He had 7 sons, 5 of whom also became vicars in the COE). Anyway, I had always interpreted the 1841 census entry as the children living with Richard and Mary Smith on Newbro Street with the possibility that Mary Smith was their aunt (an older sister of their father, Joseph which would make sense if Joseph was the youngest son of Joseph the cobbler, since the cobbler also had a daughter Mary who would have been age 60 in 1841). I interpreted Richard Smith's occupation as "sawyer" not "pauper". Would anyone else like to give it a read and comment?

I do think that the other group of MERRYs shown on King Street are related. Maybe part of the extended family, but I have not done any research on them. There did seem to be an enclave of MERRYs in the Scarborough, Pickering, Lockton triangle.

Louise

I have also noticed that on the same page there are another group of Merrys.

Charles aged 14
Joseph aged 12
Elizabeth aged 11
Sarah aged 8
Source Citation: Class: HO107; Folio: 40; Page: 4

At the top of the page the first person is listed a pauper, could they have been in a workhouse? unfortunately the previous page does not help.

Would these have been the children from Joseph's first marriage?

en2gen I hope I have not added to any confussion

Sue

PS

Geoff was there a Census done for those away from home in 1841?

en2gen

04-01-2008, 6:48 PM

As noted in an earlier thread, there was an enclave of MERRYs in the Pickering, Lockton, Scarboro area. I really feel there is a connection somewhere, but I have not found it yet. This Joseph MERRY seems to be the one I found a marriage for in 1838 (Middleton PC) to Esther Hunter. That Joseph is a widower, age 60, Yeoman of Lockton. She is shown as age 50 (maybe one of those rounding anomalies on the census that she is shown as age 40...or maybe a mis-transcription).
Louise

Not as such, those away from home should appear where they were staying overnight - though obviously many must be missing who were in transit. Occasionally I have come across entries where those who appear to be parents have proudly noted on the census that their son is a student at a college; in a couple of instances I have seen entries where someone is recorded as being a officer in the RN away at sea.

I can't remember if it's been mentioned before in the thread, but in case it ties in, I note that in 1841 at Pickering there is

HO107/1260/25 f8 p10
Lockton (north of Pickering), Yorkshire
Joseph MERRY, 80, ind, bn Yorks
Esther MERRY, 40, bn Yorks

Had Joseph returned to the parish of his birth? Or is this a completely different family?

Most, if not all of us have made mistakes in research, it would be surprising if your Uncle had not perhaps made an error; and it by no means detracts from his other work. But in your shoes, I'd follow what I could show to be accurate.

Searching the GRO index of deaths records these John MERR(E)Ys who died 1845-7
Jun 1845 - John MERREY - Headington
Dec 1845 - John MERRY - Stoke on Trent
Jun 1846 - John MERRY - Richmond S
Mar 1847 - John Fordham MERRY - Camberwell
Sep 1847 - John MERRY - Lichfield
Dec 1847 - John MERRY - Cockermouth

So, the only two deaths which might possibly have occurred in 1846 are John MERRY in Richmond, Surrey and John Fordham MERRY in Camberwell.
Is there anything in the notes which suggests that John MERRY had a second name? If you really wanted to, you might try a speculative purchase of a certificate for the Richmond death in case John MERRY travelled there.

Geoffers

04-01-2008, 10:27 PM

maybe I need some help with my assumptions from the 1841 census. Those MERRY children that you cite, are mine. Charles MERRY is my gg grandfather.....Anyway, I had always interpreted the 1841 census entry as the children living with Richard and Mary Smith on Newbro Street

Relationships were not required on the 1841 census - occasionally they are noted, but not in this instance and so it would be wrong to make an assumption that they were related - it may turn out that there was a relationship, but nothing in this census entry tells you that.

I interpreted Richard Smith's occupation as "sawyer" not "pauper". Would anyone else like to give it a read and comment?

The occupation is 'sawyer'.

I do think that the other group of MERRYs shown on King Street are related. Maybe part of the extended family, but I have not done any research on them.

If you are not already doing so, I would suggest that it would help you to record all such entries and try to put them in some semblance of order in family groups. It may be that they come together in time.