MythicalMarian
04-12-2007, 4:44 PM
Hello there everyone, just posting to introduce myself, and pass on a 25 year problem! I have been researching my family history since 1985 and seem to have success everywhere except with my great grandmother Marian Harding (1834-1904) - hence my choice of user name! I am beginning to think this lady was a figment of my great grandfather's imagination - or perhaps he carved a statue and brought it to life in true Pygmalion fashion! Thankfully, she did produce 10 fine sons and a daughter, all of whom have lovely birth certificates that she registered and signed, so I do know she's not quite a myth. More of Marian and her even more mythical father, John, later - I will post on the Yorkshire subforum. (Believe me, I've been at this game some time, so I know every trick in the book, but Marian and her Dad still won't reveal themselves.)
My main surnames (with the exception of Harding) have all proved fairly easy to trace one way or another - from the days of a simple spiral-topped notebook at libraries and record offices to today's wonderful array of online censuses and BMDs. I will post these later in the appropriate county folders. But just for the moment - hope everyone will get their brains around this one:
My Marian Harding was born in 1834 or 1833 in New Malton, North Yorkshire. Due to her age at death (in January of 1904 - 69 years) and consistency on every census where she is married to my great grandfather, I plump for the first half of 1834 - but this isn't written in stone, of course. She is also consistent in stating that her birth was in Malton - or New Malton (1861 census). On her marriage certificate (St. Mary's Eccles 1855) she gives her father as John Harding, a confectioner. There is no indication whether or not he was deceased at the time, but my great grandfather also did not state that his father was dead, when in fact he had been dead for some years. Only one baptism in the Malton PRs is possible - an illegimate Mary Harding born in 1833 to Susannah Harding. Susannah was the daughter of William and Hannah Harding, and she herself was born in 1813. No problem! Sorted! Marian made up her Dad so as not to be shamed at her marriage. Er...well, no...perhaps not.
A lady named Susannah Fleming witnessed my Marian's marriage to my great grandfather Thomas Stokes, and when the Lancashire BMDs came online I discovered a wonderful marriage! Susannah Harding married James Fleming in Salford in 1841! Great stuff, I thought. Sorted. Er...well...no, actually. Although Susannah stated her father was William Harding, he was not a Blacksmith (the man in Malton) but a Butler. Now, this occupation fits very well with how my great-grandparents met, for even my Dad knew that they met in service and my great-grandfather was training as a butler at Swinton Park in Salford. Then I found Susannah, married to her James Fleming (a surgeon) on the 1851 and 1861 censuses. She does give her birthplace as Malton in both, so she is clearly related to my Marian, but her age is out by 4 whole years. She married James Fleming two weeks after the census of 1841, but cannot be found on it under her maiden name! Nor can my Marian be found on the 1841 or 1851 censuses as Marian Harding, Mary Ann Harding, or any other variation - other than the little illegitimate girl up in Malton, living with grandpa William.
So - what are your views on this? We all know that our ancestors told the odd porkie, but do I accept that Susannah chopped a whole four years off her age when she met James (and why? - he was quite a lot older than her and widowed, whereas she was a spinster) and did she change her father's occupation to Butler? Why be ashamed that your dad was a blacksmith? Plus - butling carried on within the family, so I have to assume she is telling the truth. Marian, of course, may well be illegitimate and the daughter of this Susannah, but until I exhaust ALL registers for Malton I cannot be sure that my girls were both pathological liars!
Sorry it's long-winded. I promise my future posts will be succinct - but you did ask us to introduce ourselves with a problem! |laugh1|
My main surnames (with the exception of Harding) have all proved fairly easy to trace one way or another - from the days of a simple spiral-topped notebook at libraries and record offices to today's wonderful array of online censuses and BMDs. I will post these later in the appropriate county folders. But just for the moment - hope everyone will get their brains around this one:
My Marian Harding was born in 1834 or 1833 in New Malton, North Yorkshire. Due to her age at death (in January of 1904 - 69 years) and consistency on every census where she is married to my great grandfather, I plump for the first half of 1834 - but this isn't written in stone, of course. She is also consistent in stating that her birth was in Malton - or New Malton (1861 census). On her marriage certificate (St. Mary's Eccles 1855) she gives her father as John Harding, a confectioner. There is no indication whether or not he was deceased at the time, but my great grandfather also did not state that his father was dead, when in fact he had been dead for some years. Only one baptism in the Malton PRs is possible - an illegimate Mary Harding born in 1833 to Susannah Harding. Susannah was the daughter of William and Hannah Harding, and she herself was born in 1813. No problem! Sorted! Marian made up her Dad so as not to be shamed at her marriage. Er...well, no...perhaps not.
A lady named Susannah Fleming witnessed my Marian's marriage to my great grandfather Thomas Stokes, and when the Lancashire BMDs came online I discovered a wonderful marriage! Susannah Harding married James Fleming in Salford in 1841! Great stuff, I thought. Sorted. Er...well...no, actually. Although Susannah stated her father was William Harding, he was not a Blacksmith (the man in Malton) but a Butler. Now, this occupation fits very well with how my great-grandparents met, for even my Dad knew that they met in service and my great-grandfather was training as a butler at Swinton Park in Salford. Then I found Susannah, married to her James Fleming (a surgeon) on the 1851 and 1861 censuses. She does give her birthplace as Malton in both, so she is clearly related to my Marian, but her age is out by 4 whole years. She married James Fleming two weeks after the census of 1841, but cannot be found on it under her maiden name! Nor can my Marian be found on the 1841 or 1851 censuses as Marian Harding, Mary Ann Harding, or any other variation - other than the little illegitimate girl up in Malton, living with grandpa William.
So - what are your views on this? We all know that our ancestors told the odd porkie, but do I accept that Susannah chopped a whole four years off her age when she met James (and why? - he was quite a lot older than her and widowed, whereas she was a spinster) and did she change her father's occupation to Butler? Why be ashamed that your dad was a blacksmith? Plus - butling carried on within the family, so I have to assume she is telling the truth. Marian, of course, may well be illegitimate and the daughter of this Susannah, but until I exhaust ALL registers for Malton I cannot be sure that my girls were both pathological liars!
Sorry it's long-winded. I promise my future posts will be succinct - but you did ask us to introduce ourselves with a problem! |laugh1|