What's the difference between the Navy & the Marines?

[peapod]

Hi,
I'm new to any kind of military history and wondered if any one can help me with what is probably a really silly question. What is the difference between the Royal Navy and the Royal Marines?

My GG Grandfather FRED GIBSON has Royal Marine listed as his occupation on his marriage certificate in 1901. I think I've found the right man in the 1901 census at ROYAL MARINE BARRACKS EAST STONEHOUSE. The enumerator has all the men listed as Navy Men. So is there a difference between the two?

[Peter Goodey]

"Navy men" is written in a different hand, perhaps by a clerk back in the office. It looks as if he was trying to distinguish between officers and men, not between the services, but still made a bit of a hash of it.

Your man is shown as a private which is not a naval rank. I think you can be pretty sure he was in the Marines. You may find it interesting to wind back and look at the start of the book.

[Geoffers]

I'm new to any kind of military history and wondered if any one can help me with what is probably a really silly question. What is the difference between the Royal Navy and the Royal Marines?

The Royal Marines is a corps of soldiers who are carried on ships and trained to fight on land and at sea.

The Royal Navy consists of a lot of sailors who travel around in warships of varying size.

[Peter Goodey]

...and nobody has ever popularised the greeting "Hello, marine!" :D

[peapod]

Thanks to you both, I now understand.
Regards peapod.

[peter nicholl]

Hi peapod
Both the Royal Marines and the Royal Navy come under the authority of the Admiralty and not what in the past would have been the War Office.
Try the Royal Marines Museum at Eastney, Portsmouth. Until their amalgamation there were two branches of the Royal Marines; Royal Marines Light Infantry and Royal Marines Artillery.
Geoffers is nearly right about the Royal Navy, as well as travelling around in warships (and boats incidentally) they also have fought on land, see Naval Brigade. Anyone who has seen the Royal Tournament should remember the Field Gun Interport Competition, started in 1907 as a rerun of the Naval Brigade's action in the Boer War in 1899.
Peter

[Mike_E]

I don't know if I'm remembering something incorrectly, but on the old wooden ships of Nelsons era, didn't the Marines man the guns on one side of the ship, and the Navy (ie Hello Sailor) man the other side?

Or have I got mixed up in my old age?

[Geoffers]

Geoffers is nearly right about the Royal Navy, as well as travelling around in warships (and boats incidentally) they also have fought on land, see Naval Brigade. Anyone who has seen the Royal Tournament should remember the Field Gun Interport Competition, started in 1907 as a rerun of the Naval Brigade's action in the Boer War in 1899.

How could I forget, my gt-grandfather E.E.Lowe was a Gunner in the RN and landed with the Naval Brigade in the South Afrcian War - he was the first recipient of the CSC (now DSC) for doing his bit. Perhaps I should have said that generally they travel about in warships; with the occasional foray onto land for war, wine, women, etc, etc

[peapod]

Peter Nicholl you've now confused this military Newbie!

So both the Navy & Marines fought at sea & on land but only the Navy were sailors?

Does that mean that you could get a ship/boat with only navy men on board but you'd never get a ship with just marines on as they wouldn't know how to sail it!

The museum, might be worth a visit in the future if I ever find out more about what Fred Gibson actually go up to in the marines.

Thanks for the info.
peapod.

[peter nicholl]

I don't know if I'm remembering something incorrectly, but on the old wooden ships of Nelsons era, didn't the Marines man the guns on one side of the ship, and the Navy (ie Hello Sailor) man the other side?

Or have I got mixed up in my old age?
Heaven preserve us from Pongoes and Crabs|nutkick|

The sailors wore blue and worked the ship, including the guns, both sides.
The Marines wore red and used muskets/rifles.
peapod, think sailors, think "The Battle of the River Plate", "Above us the Waves". And your idea of who can fight and who can sail is about right.
Think Marines, think of a Commando The RM Museum is also on-line.
Peter

[Procat]

Hi Peapod,

Take a look here for a concise history of the Royal Marines:

http://www.royalmarines.mod.uk/history-and-ethos/history-of-the-royal-marines.php

[Ed Bradford]

Early in the American Navy, who probably emulated the Royal Navy, the Marines were the men that went up in the rigging during a battle and fired muskets down on the crew of opposing ships. Now keep in mind that the number of men that a ship can carry is limited and the number of jobs that need to be performed at sea are many, therefore, each person aboard is assigned more than one job to perform. The Marines would have not been allowed to just languish on deck if the the ship wasn't engaged in battle. They would have been assigned some other jobs to perform. That might vary from ship to ship and depending on the era.

Because of the origin of the Marines and turf wars within the services, the Marines still come under the Department of the Navy. Their role has changed somewhat because naval warfare has changed but they are still closely associated with the Navy.

............Ed

[peapod]

Cheers to you both for the extra info.

[mack]

I don't know if I'm remembering something incorrectly, but on the old wooden ships of Nelsons era, didn't the Marines man the guns on one side of the ship, and the Navy (ie Hello Sailor) man the other side?

Or have I got mixed up in my old age?the marines used to man the guns of X and Y turrets,on all british capital ships.
all warships in the british navy,have a marine detatchment.

mack

[ShirleyB]

My grandfather was a Marine during WW1 and he was one of the many manning the guns on the south and north soutors at Cromarty in Scotland, I have a somewhat fading photo of him there. One of his sons,my uncle Ken was a Marine in WW2 and he died aboard HMS Royal Oak in Scapa Flow, Orkney in 1939. The majority of the Marines were asleep on their deck near the ammunitions and when the ship blew up, they were burnt alive by the cordite flash. Diversing a wee bit, but yes, the Marines were trained for sea and land combat.

[dannywh]

And finally(!) as they say, from an ex RAF man|angel| - Order of Precedence (ie seniority as defined by the now MOD) should either enlighten or totally confuse!!

As the descendant of the old Marine Regiments of the British Army, the Royal Marines used to have a position in the Order of Precedence of the Infantry; this was after the 49th Regiment of Foot, the descendant of which is the Royal Gloucestershire, Berkshire and Wiltshire Regiment. Therefore, the Royal Marines would have paraded after the RGBW. This is because the 49th Foot was the last Regiment raised prior to the formation of the Corps of Marines as part of the Royal Navy in 1755. In 2007, the RGBW was amalgamated into a large Regiment—this new Regiment is placed last in the order of precedence, as it is a regiment of rifles. However as a result of the new Army amalgamations the Royal Marines have now been removed from the Infantry order of precedence and will now always take post, as a constituent part of the Naval Service, at the head of the parade alongside the Navy, or alone if the Navy are not represented|5cups|

HTH
Danny

[Raymond M]

See what you've started Peapod with what you thought was an innocent question!
On shore and out of uniform you could always tell who was a sailor in civvies because irrespective of the clothes he was wearing he always wore his issued navy blue socks!
A Royal Marine would never do such a thing as he had much better dress sense.
Oh dear, I can hear keyboards being bashed already!