From London to Liverpool in 1876, how long did it take?

[Ladkyis]

In 1876/7 my great grandmother travelled from Southwark in London to the Theatre Royal in Liverpool to begin her professional acting career. I am trying to write up this part of the history and would like to know how long it would take.

Oh and would she have had to change trains? how often?

Oh and later in her career I am told that her granddaughter would look down into the station yard on her way home from school to see if grandmother's bed was there because the lady took her own bedstead with her as well as her trunks of clothes and costumes. was this possible?

[Mythology]

Not a *lot* of help to you, but...

Considering the amount of interest there is in railway history, there seems to be a decided lack of any detailed information online, but you're well into the railway age by then - she'd certainly have been able to get the London & North Western Railway straight from London Euston to Liverpool Lime Street. this (http://www.londonancestor.com/newspaper/1882/0812/london-rail.htm) is only a few years later, 1882, and refers to a 2.45 p.m. London-Liverpool express plus two other trains at 12 noon and 5 p.m.

I would *guess* about three and a half hours on a fast train, but that *is* just a guess - I wouldn't quote it.

And I *expect* they'd have taken the bed if she had the money to pay for it - I can't see any practical reason why not, and railway companies rarely turned down an opportunity to rake in some extra cash.

[Mythology]

On what little evidence I've turned up since, make that probably about four hours on a fast train - my estimate based on a roughly 60mph average for an express looks as though it was a bit optimistic, and a roughly 50mph average seems to be nearer the mark then.

This one (http://mikes.railhistory.railfan.net/r074.html), dealing with "specials", includes...
"Another exceptional run with a Royal special was made on the London and North Western Railway, between Manchester and London, on May 4, 1887, when the Prince of Wales (afterwards King Edward VII) was conveyed over the 189 miles in 225 minutes. The running time was only 210 minutes after making allowance for stops at Crewe, Rugby and Willesden. Another special conveying the Prince of Wales, when he travelled from Liverpool to London on the occasion of the death of the Duke of Albany, took only 234 minutes, or 223 minutes if stops are deducted, for the 193½ miles."

[Ladkyis]

somewhere I have read that a normal stopping train took around 9 hours from Euston to London Road Manchester. So I suppose that anywhere inbetween would cover it. Now I must find out what sort of carriages there were then and, of course the cost of the ticket - I am sure there were three classes then weren't there?

[Mythology]

Well, yes, if you are perverse enough to insist on getting the slow train, obviously it will take a lot longer - the same applies today.
E.g. (says he after a quick prod at the National Fail site) if you were at Liverpool Street station in London about now and got the 15.52 to Shenfield, the running time is advertised at 41 minutes, whereas if you got the 16.02 it's only 23 minutes, so the stopping one is not far short of twice the journey time of the fast one!

"I am sure there were three classes then weren't there?"
You need a railway historian, which I'm not - sorry!
There certainly used to be a third class, but I have a vague feeling that (possibly not in all cases?) it was a silly situation where you had "first" and "third" but no "second" - labelling the peasants as "third class" really keeps them in their place. ;)

[Mythology]

If you have the patience, it might be worth a trawl through the small ads of The Times.
There seems to be the occasional ad there - e.g., on the other Manchester to London line, the Midland Railway into St Pancras, I found one back in 1870 stating that the 6.55 a.m. express was being accelerated to arrive St Pancras at 11.55 a.m.
You really don't want to use the Midland for that neck of the woods if you have any sense - nor the ridiculous Great Northern service from Kings Cross to Liverpool which I came across in one advert, about a seven and a half hour journey, but I expect if you plod through them something for the sensible line for Manchester and Liverpool from London, the LNWR from Euston, will turn up.

[busyglen]

Ladkyis, there is a bit about trains here, which although mostly dealing with London, does say that there were First, Second and Third Class in the 1850s.

http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/H/history/i-m/london4.html#masthead

Scroll down to the bit about Necropolis Train.


Glenys

[Mutley]

Victorian London has quite a section on travel and trains,
I got lost on it for ages. Click on the TRANSPORT link

http://www.victorianlondon.org/

[uksearch]

I have just had a very quick squint at Bradshaw’s for July 1876.

London to Liverpool Prices - single
1st class 29/-
2nd class 21s 9d
3rd class 16s 8d

Return – double the above.

I did not have much time to study the timetable, but I could see a train leaving Euston at 12 noon and arriving at Lime St at 5.00pm.

UK

[uksearch]

There was also an early morning train that left London at about 5 am that went to Crewe. You could then change for Lime St, I can't remember what time it arrived.

UK

[uksearch]

Just a point...I posted some good information to you and you did not bother to acknowledge.

Cheers,

UK

[Ladkyis]

Oh UK I am so sorry!
For some reason I missed your posts and did not receive a message telling me that someone had posted. That is EXACTLY the information I was looking for, thank you so much.

I have sat on a bench at Crewe waiting for a connecting train so I can imagine what that was like with steam trains and the anticipation of a new life in the theatre.

Thank you for taking the time to find this information, I am delighted with it.

[uksearch]

Your most welcome. I thought that something must have gone amiss.

UK