Do you have a Black Sheep?

[Mutley]

As this is the first thread in a new forum topic, I wonder if it could contain general advice to those searching their Black Sheep.
For Example:
I have found a newspaper article, Fred Smith in 1890 committed a crime and was sentenced to 2 years penal servitude.

If I post his/her name will it be possible for others to help me?
Now what do I do to find the details?
How much information can I obtain on-line?
Where, depending on the geographical area of the crime, do I have to go?
What is the Calendar of Prisoners and what does it contain?
How do I find where the sentence was carried out, what prison?
When did they photograph prisoners, does that mean there is a picture??
Would I be able to get a transcript of the trial?
Are there any useful links to get me started?

What other information or advice can you offer please?

Thank you,
Mutley

[MarkJ]

I wondered who would be first here in the Black Sheep section ;)
Of course, there are no black sheep in my family! Well, apart from a serial bigamist, another bigamist and probably the most vicious of the Bounty Mutineers.....

Ah well, at least they make things interesting at times!

Mark

[sandiep]

well one or two misdemeanors 3 convicts transported..............1 licensed victualler who was fined for misusing his beer! one for wilful damage to a tree
one suicide................but of course we ARE NOW A VERY LAW ABIDING FAMILY.......sorry didnt mean to shout.

sandie

oops forgot the 3 bigamists all the transportations remarried whilst still married in UK

[Mutley]

I agree, but will I get any answers to the questions?

And I am dying to know which country will have the blackest sheep! ;)
Who's ancestor's trial was at the Old Bailey? :cool:
And, difficult to come to terms with, I know, but who is going to admit to a hanging! :o
And........ who is the grandson of Jack the Ripper :D

[MarkJ]

Those would be interesting questions!
No hangings in my tree as far as I am aware, although my Bounty ancestor was killed with an axe by a couple of his fellows.
Back in earlier centuries, even very trivial offences often received horrendous sentences - deportation for poaching, detention in the "Asylum" for being an unmarried mother and much more. I suspect hanging was pretty commonplace for fairly petty crimes as well as the more serious offences. It often seems - when reading some of the older reports - that it often depended on the social status of accused and accuser as to the outcome of the case. A pauper stealing from the local Lord of the Manor seems to receive pretty harsh punishment, yet the landed gentry attacking and forcing himself upon a village girl is quietly brushed aside.
It will be interesting to see what this new section brings - and hopefully those whose ancestors were "black sheep" may be able to supply a little background to allow us to decide whether they were fairly treated.

Mark

[Ladkyis]

To try and answer some of Mutley's questions

If you post the name can other people help? - there will always be someone to offer advice and help and the name is needed along with the geographical area so that someone local can help more.

Now what do I do to find the details? - the same thing you do for any other research, find out where the information is kept and then start looking through it. If you are too far away then you have to get someone else to do it for you.

How much information can I find online? - How long is a piece of string...

continued...

[Ladkyis]

I was going to carry on but I think it's pretty clear that researching black sheep is really just the same as any other research.

Make sure you write it down, and always make a note of the source of the information.

Mythology can probably tell you more about researching black sheep because he is lucky and has lots.

[Colin Moretti]

Hello Mutley

A good place to start (at least for the 19th C) is TNA - they publish a number of guidance leaflets on criminal ancestors here:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/researchguidesindex.asp

The amount of information for convicts is very variable, ranging from (virtually) nothing at all to full prison record including photos from about 1860s.

For g grandfather I have the report of the trial at the Old Bailey (unfortunately he pleaded guilty so no details).

cont ...

[Colin Moretti]

I have his full prison record plus a week by week record of his conduct in Portland Prison as well as a selection of the Governor's daily journal entries (no mention of Joseph, though, he kept his nose clean). For the time he spent in Newgate and Wakefield I only have the record of his arrival and departure.

None of this is on line - a number of visits to TNA were necessary to track down all the records.

cont ...

[Pam Downes]

Could we perhaps have a sticky for online sources, please?
I have quite a few I can list.
Pam

(sorry, Colin, didn't mean to interrupt!)

[Colin Moretti]

The Governor's daily journal was fascinating reading, with records of punishments inflicted on the prisoners (eg 12 lashes and confinement in a punishment cell) and the staff (sleeping on duty - dismissed). There are his plans for dealing with a threatened mutiny, reports of the visits of dignitaries and VIPs, including Prince Albert and two of his sons and accidents and deaths in the quarries. Escape plans by prisoners are regularly recorded.

Colin

[Colin Moretti]

Could we perhaps have a sticky for online sources, please?
I have quite a few I can list. Don't we all!


(sorry, Colin, didn't mean to interrupt!)
No problem - a hazard of using the forum.

Colin

[Copper]

This is an interesting site which might help some people. Criminal proceedings at the Old Bailey 1674-1834. They have extra funding to extend the years to 1913. Read "About this project" I found my Nathaniel Stringall here in 1825.

http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/

This site has a black (and white) sheep index.

http://www.lightage.demon.co.uk/

[busyglen]

I found the Black Sheep index above, a few years ago whilst trying to find my gt.gt. grandfather who was in the Met. Police force.....no joy, but it was interesting searching!

Glenys

[Mutley]

Thanks everybody,

I'll be back soon with some names, dates and crimes. I seem to have more than my fair share.....

Regards,
Mutley

[GeoffD]

The Convict Indexes have now been made available, and I found these:

Name: Edward Drew
Vessel: Mangles
Convicted Date: 22 Oct 1834
Voyage Date: 24 Apr 1835
Colony: Van Dieman's Land
Piece: HO 11/10
Place of Conviction: Cornwall
County of Conviction: Cornwall

Edward was sentenced to 7 years. He was convicted at Falmouth Second Sessions. On the original, he is bracketed with Robert Roberts.

Name: Peter Drew
Vessel: Fame
Convicted Date: 25 Mar 1816
Voyage Date: 9 Oct 1816
Colony: New South Wales
Piece: HO 11/2
Place of Conviction: Cornwall
County of Conviction: Cornwall

Name: Samuel Drew
Vessel: Fame
Convicted Date: 25 Mar 1816
Voyage Date: 9 Oct 1816
Colony: New South Wales
Piece: HO 11/2
Place of Conviction: Cornwall
County of Conviction: Cornwall

Peter and Samuel seemed to have some connection with William Mallet the Younger, as they are bracketed together on the original page. All three were sentenced to life, convicted at the Cornwall Assizes.

Where do I start looking for the trial records? I don't know if they are 'mine' or not, just inquisitive because they come from the 'right' general areas.

[suedent]

For Cornish Blacksheep in the late 1830s and early 1840s it's well worth taking a look at the West Briton Transcriptions.

The accounts of the Quarter Sessions make fascinating reading and like me you may well find one of your ancestors.

1 July 1836, Friday
John A'Lee xxxx charged with having stolen a gun, the property of Jxx Brewer. Not guilty.

I suspect that his acquittal may well have had something to do with the fact that John A'Lee (either his uncle or grandfather) was appointed a Constable of the East Hundred in 1815! Many of the jurors will probably have been friends of the family.

I think his uncle (his guardian) may have had his suspicions as he didn't do as well as might have expected when his uncle's will was read.

Ironically his brother Nicholas who inherited the tenancy of Killigarth turned out to be the real blacksheep & reputedly gambled and drank his way through his inheritance, abandoned his wife and died in Plymouth Workhouse (of hepatitis) in 1871

Sue

[ChristineR]

And, difficult to come to terms with, I know, but who is going to admit to a hanging!

I will |wave|
My first cousin (five times removed) lies buried in the grounds of Lincolnshire Castle after being the first woman hung there once public executions where banned. She protested her innocence to the gallows - it was her lover, the lodger, who poisoned her husband. (She was no innocent lass - but what would you expect when two lodgers slept in the same small room and hubby got up and left for work early each morn) Legend has it that she received a pardon years later when the lodger confessed on his death bed. Too late for poor Priscilla Biggadyke nee Whiley.

For a while I thought that Pricilla was the nearest to a convict that I had - normally she would have been transported, but I dont think the judge liked those type of women :D

Then I discovered that my Thomas Honour Stone was a convict, his case was heard at the Old Bailey and he was transported for knocking off silk.


oops forgot the 3 bigamists all the transportations remarried whilst still married in UK

These probably would not have been bigamous marriages - unless they happened pretty quickly - once they were gone from England for 6 or 7 years then either of the couple were legally free to marry again. (I think I have heard that several times)

ChristineR

[Oates]

My family seems exceptionally boring so far. The closest I have (that I know of) to a convict may not even be related. On my dad's side of the family, they owned a few pubs. In the 'The Way We Were' section of the local paper my dad found a picture from the 1930s from a local pub. The landlord is a dead ringer for my grandfather and has the same surname (but I haven't proved a connection yet). When we looked up police pub records at the library, we found the records for the mystery landlord from the paper. He was charged with 'supplying during non permitted hours - fined £5 or 28 days'. My ancestors however, have clean records at their pubs.

[GeoffD]

For Cornish Blacksheep in the late 1830s and early 1840s it's well worth taking a look at the West Briton Transcriptions.

First place I checked, but the earliest is 1836.

[Ed Bradford]

Black sheep? I thought that was the only color they came in. Do you mean to tell me that some families have white sheep? ..............Ed

[Ed Bradford]

I thought you lost yours and don't know where to find them. .............Ed

[kevynne]

Australia was where the blackest sheep went.That is why they send their "soaps" to Britain as revenge.
My own black sheep stole a sheep in Kent then tried to sell the meat in a local inn. Unfortunately he tried to sell it to the sheeps owner. Off to Western Australia for the rest of his days, but not before he was released after serving his sentence and was locked up again twice for his misdeameners.

[Ed Bradford]

Please keep in mind that America was the usual destination of British convicts until its independence. America was also the destination of religious zealots, those people sold into servitude voluntarily or involuntarily and those people wanting to escape some sort of undesirable life. Not all Americans have a black sheep in their past but many do. Of those that do, some try to hide it and some, like me, find it adds a little spice to an otherwise unremarkable past.

.............Ed

[bwarnerok]

Please keep in mind that America was the usual destination of British convicts until its independence. America was also the destination of religious zealots, those people sold into servitude voluntarily or involuntarily and those people wanting to escape some sort of undesirable life. Not all Americans have a black sheep in their past but many do. Of those that do, some try to hide it and some, like me, find it adds a little spice to an otherwise unremarkable past.

.............Ed

Zealots? I like to think of my Mayflower bunch as being "non-conformists".
I'm with you Ed. I adore my black sheep and wonder if I might be considered one by my descendants. Oops.. that's right, I have no descendants. :-)

-b-

[Ed Bradford]

I'd consider the Mayflower bunch as looking for a more desireable life.

By the way, although a family story indicates that I'm related to William Bradford of the Mayflower through a brother who stayed in England, I have found no evidence to support that story. I believe the family story is just wishful thinking. My Bradford line didn't arrive in America until the 1920s. Before then, I have them living on the East side of London in all of the notorious locals. My mother's side of my family came to America in the 1690s. I've been able to track them through court records. I love my black sheep ancestors. They make research interesting and the family story worth telling. I do have a few relatives that don't want to hear me tell it though.

...............Ed

[Jan1954]

The nearest I can get to a black sheep (apart from my great grandfather, who was one of the ringleaders in the Essex Agricultural Labourers Strike of 1914) is one Solomon Mascall, the brother of my great grandmother.

Every full moon, Solomon used to ride round Cambridge on a tricycle - stark naked...|oopsredfa

[bwarnerok]

Every full moon, Solomon used to ride round Cambridge on a tricycle - stark naked...|oopsredfa

Oh Jan, I can't even come close to that. Suppose my black sheep are a bit on the grey side. Consider yourself lucky -- he could've been a werewolf.;)

betsy

[Mutley]

If you could see your ancestors,
All standing in a row,
Would you be proud of them,
Or don't you really know?

Some strange discoveries are made
In climbing family trees;
And some of them, you know,
Do not particularly please.

If you could see your ancestors,
All standing in a row,
There might be some of them, perhaps,
You wouldn't care to know.

But there's another question
Which requires a different view ...
If you could "meet" your ancestors,
Would they be proud of you?

[Davran]

If you could "meet" your ancestors,
Would they be proud of you?

Ah, Mutley, very good question. I suspect some of them would be very annoyed that I've delved into their secrets and let them out of the bag!

[Mutley]

I certainly would not like to meet my villainous lot.

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z166/utopiastars/scared.gif

I'd run away frit! - dead scared of them all

[Jane_Adams]

My 4 x great-grandfather may have come a cropper of someone else's black sheep.

He testified in several Old Bailey trials where the accused had been attempting to pawn stolen goods in the pawn shop where he worked. The last one was sentenced to death. On 25th May 1830, my ancestor disappeared, never to be seen again!

[MythicalMarian]

I agree, but will I get any answers to the questions?

but who is going to admit to a hanging! :o


I'll admit to a hanging drawing and quartering for treason! Although he is not a direct ancestor, but more of a collateral, my Thomas Syddall (1709-1746) was executed in 1746 for joining the Manchester Regiment in the '45 Jacobite Rebellion. However, I do not consider him a black sheep - more of a romantic hero ;)

[warmnet]

It sounds so sordid. I've posted on the Hertfordshire and Surname threads and working my way through this site as a newbie this looks good too. So here goes.

My ancestor, Thomas b.abt 1820 had a Levi Warman and Mary as parents (IGI).
He lived at Bromley, Standon in 1841. 3 doors down from Levi (b.abt 1806) and Elizabeth (b.1796).

Levi killed Elizabeth in 1845 -Hertford Assizes.

Levi (b.1806) in Cheriton prison, as widower (1861 census) gotta be him!!!
Levi (b.1796) deceased in Bishops Stortford aged 84 - gotta be hime too.

I'd like to find out if he's my relation (hope not!)
Whether he was transported? or what happened to him!!!
Any ideas?

Regards
Diane

[Jack Richards]

Today, after several days of searching, I have discovered an ancestor on the 1861 census in Portland Convict Prison, Dorset. He is shown by initial only, namely "T" "F".

His name was Francis Thomas, convict, aged 38'ish, Collier born Foley, Staffs.
Also, I know he was in Stafford Prison on the 1851 census.

Several of you have provided info. on this thread re prisoners etc.

Can any of you point me in the right direction as to how I can possibly discover anything about his crime(s) and the likelihood or otherwise of him being transported.

I cannot find him on the 1871 census.

I have no experience of researching prisoners. Suggestions will be most welcome.

Regards Jack

[Colin Moretti]

Hello Jack

Having been there myself (to the records, not the prison - g grandfather Joseph was there at the time of the 1861 census) I know that the records are comparatively comprehensive. For example, I have a week-by-week record of Joseph's conduct, details of any punishment he received and the Prison Governor's daily journal; the latter makes fascination reading even if a specific convict is not mentioned. The convict's record will include details of his crime, where convicted, sentence and other prisons and previous convictions.

The records are all at TNA; they have not been filmed so a personal visit (or a researcher) is needed.

Read the TNA leaflets on the subject first (found here: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/researchguidesindex.asp; look for convicts); series HO, CRIM and PCOM are likely to be most relevant.

Contact me off-forum if you would like further details.

Colin

[Jack Richards]

Hi Colin

Thank you for your quick response.

I will contact you privately this afternoon.

Regards

Jack

[Nesslee]

Hi everyone,

This a very interesting post. Black Sheep... ah yes, I think EVERYONE has one in the family. I don't know anybody that doesn't have one in there immediate family, (I do, one of my brothers), but as far as my ancestors, I have 2 that I know of.

An 11th great grandmother, by the name of Ann (Alcock)Foster, who died in a Salem, Massachusetts jail awaiting trial for witchcraft.

The other is none other than the infamous Lizzie Borden. She's a distant cousin.

Wait, there's another, a closer cousin than Lizzie. Brigham Young, the Mormon polygamist with 36 wives. Some his wives are cousins of mine as well.

This is a very cool post.
Nesslee

[MythicalMarian]

Hi everyone,

The other is none other than the infamous Lizzie Borden. She's a distant cousin.
Nesslee

Every family needs the odd axe murderer :D

Now, I was once in touch with a lady in America who assured me that my Barrow family were distantly connected to Clyde of that ilk. I have never found such a connection, though, so I'm reluctant to claim old Clyde as one of mine. My son was very disappointed when I couldn't find the connection - he wanted to be related to 'a cool gangster' :D

[Ladkyis]

I am sure his name was Clyde, perhaps that's why you couldn't connect.

[MythicalMarian]

I am sure his name was Clyde, perhaps that's why you couldn't connect.

Ladkyis - I was no doubt editing my past when you posted ;) When it first went up I realised I'd written 'Clive' by mistake. Of course I meant Clyde Barrow.

In any case, I am sure he's nothing to do with us, bless his little cotton socks.

[suedent]

One of my research names is Quaintrell/Quantrell & I have given up visiting some of the surname message boards & they are swamped by messages from people looking for links to William Clarke Quantrell.

My husband's Quaintrells are almost certainly unconnected to the American outlaw but Henry did run a pub in Old Nichol Street, Bethnal Green in the 1830s-1840s. Given the reputation of "The Old Nichol" I somehow think that there are some skeletons in cupboards waiting to be revealed. (Apart from the lady living as his wife & 4 illegitimate children).

[Ogrebattle]

My Grandfather, what a dear chap,:confused: decided to extend the family in Darlington, without the knowledge of the present family! We now think we have even more family in Warrington. His Ancestors from Warrington are elusive to say the least.
I found a Aunt living around the corner from me in Suffolk, where our children all went to the same school!|banghead| We think our dear Grandfather ended his days in either Wakefield or Warrington. Still looking for the Death Cert!

[Geoffers]

Welcome to the British-Genealogy forums


My Grandfather, what a dear chap, decided to extend the family in Darlington, without the knowledge of the present family!

Ah, that complciates things a little. If he went a little to far and maried two people at the same time and was caught, he should appear in TNA's catalogue (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/search.asp) just enter a surname in the word or phrase field, then enter the words 'AND bigamy' (note the AND needs to be in capitals). If you find an entry, you can order a copy of the documents.


We think our dear Grandfather ended his days in either Wakefield or Warrington. Still looking for the Death Cert!

It is sometimes easier to find a death using the calendar of probate and admon records (index of wills), these have been copied onto microfilm and can be seen at most county record offices/local studies libraries. The index normally provides enough detail to be able to identify individuals - useful if looking for frequently occurring surnames.

[SouthernComfort]

yes, FED-UP!!! All I ask for is one - yes ONE black sheep. Have I found one? No. I come from a long line of Ag Labs. No Murderers/Members of Government/Thieves/Bigamists/B******s/Transporteds/ANYTHING.

Just about giving up hope.

Of course I could INVENT some...

SC.....|sad1|

[suedent]

One of my research names is Quaintrell/Quantrell & I have given up visiting some of the surname message boards & they are swamped by messages from people looking for links to William Clarke Quantrell.

My husband's Quaintrells are almost certainly unconnected to the American outlaw but Henry did run a pub in Old Nichol Street, Bethnal Green in the 1830s-1840s. Given the reputation of "The Old Nichol" I somehow think that there are some skeletons in cupboards waiting to be revealed. (Apart from the lady living as his wife & 4 illegitimate children).


Well I've dug up one skeleton. In 1856 a William Harris appeared in court in Bethnal Green accused of assisting Mrs Quaintrell to abscond with at least £70 of Henry's property! Mrs Quaintrell was still missing, thought to be in Bow.

[Jan1954]

yes, FED-UP!!! All I ask for is one - yes ONE black sheep. Have I found one? No. I come from a long line of Ag Labs. No Murderers/Members of Government/Thieves/Bigamists/B******s/Transporteds/ANYTHING.

Just about giving up hope.

Of course I could INVENT some...

SC.....|sad1|

Don't despair! |hug|

Have a rummage amongst your Ag labs. One of mine (great grandfather) went to prison for being a ring-leader in the Ag Lab Strike of 1914. This was in Essex.

[MythicalMarian]

I can't claim this particular black sheep, but my uncle by marriage had a splendid great uncle who murdered a girl in our area in about 1925 - it was all over the local papers. After murdering the lass at a farm house in Dukinfield, Cheshire, he then cut his own throat at the side of canal and threw himself in! It was quite a scandal at the time, I believe. The jury returned verdicts of Crime of Passion and Felo de se for his suicide.

[Davran]

I know we all gloat over the black sheep of the past, but it must have been very painful, upsetting and embarrassing for the people going through it at the time :(, so spare a |grouphug| for the poor old ancestors.

[Mutley]

If I could go back in time and face my villainous lot....

I would

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g169/Saiyoko_Himeriya/gift/pigs/run.gif

[Kate Allan]

I have four convicts, a bigamist, a suicide..........these are the ones that I know about!

There is also a governor of a gaol, and actrss and Miles Franklin.....

they say you have to take the good with the bad!

K:)

[caromac]

I have two on my maternal side husband and wife Peter Driver and Mary Ann Thompson. On my father's side I have five, Mary Gray who married convict Joseph Clayton, Henry Clayton (whose father and uncle were hanged for the same crime), Simeon WInes and James Worker.
I also have two ancestors who were gaolers at Port Arthur.

I only found all this information after my parents died as they wouldn't talk about family history.

Cheers,
Carolyn
Tasmania|5cups|

[Kate Allan]

I have two on my maternal side husband and wife Peter Driver and Mary Ann Thompson. On my father's side I have five, Mary Gray who married convict Joseph Clayton, Henry Clayton (whose father and uncle were hanged for the same crime), Simeon WInes and James Worker.
I also have two ancestors who were gaolers at Port Arthur.

I only found all this information after my parents died as they wouldn't talk about family history.

Cheers,
Carolyn
Tasmania|5cups|

You know it's interesting that we talk about these issues with a;most a sense of pride but, at the time, it would have been a devastating 'skeleton in the cupboard'. I mentioned the bigamist I found to my mother and she seemed really shocked, and he was nothing to do with her at all!

They always say you can't choose your family!

K:)

[Ffortune]

Hi all

I have a traitor connection for the English Civil War.

One Nicholas Mussell took part in the Penruddock Rebellion against Cromwell & was shipped to Barbados on the John to be an indentured slave for life.
Nicholas is son of Tristram Mussel, brother to my 11xggm.

Useful source : http://books.google.com/books
this gave me access to an online book on State Papers.

Another source is House of Commons Journal which gave names of family members whose lands were forfeited because they were Catholic.

regards Ffortune

[Barnzzz]

Hello, thanks to the free access to the British Library newspapers I've found out more about Albert the bootmaker from Bristol, who I believed to have been in prison due to bankruptcy. It turns out he did indeed go bankrupt (twice). The 2nd time, he managed to hide his stock under the floorboards of his house so it couldn't be confiscated and sold, then he escaped to Liverpool under an assumed name. Months later he returned intending to sell it and go abroad, only he was arrested.

He had a brother called Alfred also a bootmaker from Middlezoy in Somerset, who also went bankrupt and then went to live in Wales. He too was arrested, as he had a racehorse which he ran under a different name at every course, presumably so he could make a killing betting. I really don't understand how a bankrupt bootmaker could afford a racehorse ! Maybe they were cheaper to run in those days.

Sue

[jeanettemarie]

Its not fair, Ive tried and tried but cant find any blackseep, Ive gone through all the records of the Old Bailey trying various family names, and I cant find any|book2|on either mine or my husbands side,,

Mind you I cant find my side anywhere, anyway:confused:
Jeanette

[MythicalMarian]

Hi all

I have a traitor connection for the English Civil War.

One Nicholas Mussell took part in the Penruddock Rebellion against Cromwell & was shipped to Barbados on the John to be an indentured slave for life.
Nicholas is son of Tristram Mussel, brother to my 11xggm.

regards Ffortune

I would be extremely proud of this particular black sheep, Fortune! And I wouldn't call him a traitor at all. |hug|

Interestingly, the man who headed the committee to condemn Charles I to death - John Bradshaw - was born in one of 'my' parishes - Stockport, Cheshire. A later vicar wrote the word 'traitor' in the margin next to his baptismal entry.

[cookiew]

I have two on my maternal side husband and wife Peter Driver and Mary Ann Thompson. On my father's side I have five, Mary Gray who married convict Joseph Clayton, Henry Clayton (whose father and uncle were hanged for the same crime), Simeon WInes and James Worker.
I also have two ancestors who were gaolers at Port Arthur.

I only found all this information after my parents died as they wouldn't talk about family history.

Cheers,
Carolyn
Tasmania|5cups|

MARY GRAY AND JOSEPH CLAYTON ARE MY G.G.G.G. GRANDPARENTS!!!
SO I GUESS WE ARE RELATED!!
VISITED THEIR GRAVE IN PERTH TASMANIA TWO MONTHS AGO.
HAVE BEEN RESEARCHING FAMILY FOR SEVERAL YEARS, ALSO INTERESTED IN 'CROOME' SIDE OF FAMILY, CHARLOTTE CLAYTON MARRIED GEORGE CROOME - CHARLOTTE DAUGHTER OF MARY AND JOSEPH.
IT "IS" A SMALL WORLD!...VICKI MELBOURNE

[ChrisD_S]

It seems we have a few black sheep in our family.

Two lost their heads - wrong side in a royal feud, they were Lancastrians.

One Lord Mayor put in the tower - sold Irish Rebels into slavery, he was pardoned, no proof.

G.G. Grandfather had three wives two of them bigamously.

One family member was a Woodward for the Duke of Beaufort, his name was Luff and he took a man to court for stealing wood, his name? Luff another family member.

The result of an item another family member introduced, is still causing trouble to this day. Sir Walter Raleigh should have given up smoking before he left America.
Why black sheep? He lost his head in the Tower, that's what happens when you don't get on with the government. We won't talk about him being a pirate.

There's another one a certain Owen Glendower (Owain Glyndwr) Owen Glyn Dŵr, Owen of the Glen of Dee Water the last true Price of Wales. He had a bit of a falling out with Henry IV, so he was a Welsh Black Sheep of the family.

And on Jean's side of the family, she has the last man to be transported for a crime.

There are more but this lot should help pass the time |jumphappy

[yorkshirecath]

Yep, i have a few too.
My ggrandfather appears to have been a bigamist, he also had a child with each of them in 1905.
My grandfather was a murderer, or some may say it was manslaughter as she(my grandmother) didn't die until 2yrs after the event but it was as a result of the injuries he gave her.
My great uncle was imprisoned before he was 18, not sure what for.
I'm sure there are many others but haven't ventured too far yet!