Military Deaths

[Ed Bradford]

I have several family members that died in WWI. I've found listings of their deaths in the Commonwealth War Graves Commission files but never found any of their deaths registered in the General Records Office. Is there somewhere to go to get an official certificate of their death? Also, is there somewhere to go to get more information about their death?

.................Ed

[Peter Goodey]

Where have you looked?

They won't be in the Civil Registration section.

You want the appropriate GRO War Deaths Indexes 1914-1921. These indexes are available at the FRC or online at find my past or no doubt other places.

Also don't forget the Soldiers Died in the Great War database online at the same place but better (cheaper!) to find a library that has it ;)

[Ed Bradford]

Peter thanks for reminding me about Find My Past. I didn't even think to look there. Unfortunately, the libraries here in the States, at least the ones near me in Florida, don't carry the indexes so I'll have to pay. Again thanks for pointing me in the right direction. ................Ed

[Peter Goodey]

Don't go over the top (as it were) ordering death certificates - they aren't very informative.

[peter nicholl]

Peter thanks for reminding me about Find My Past. I didn't even think to look there. Unfortunately, the libraries here in the States, at least the ones near me in Florida, don't carry the indexes so I'll have to pay. Again thanks for pointing me in the right direction. ................Ed
Hi Ed
Let me know the names (christian and surname) and I'll see about a look up.

Peter

[Ed Bradford]

Peter there are two that I'd like to know about:

John William Henry Bradford
A priviate in the British Army
Service number 328118
Died on 4 April 1918 somewhere in France
is buried in Rouen, France

William John Albert Dennis Bradford
A seaman in the British Navy
Service number 217346
Died on 10 June 1915 on board HM Torpedo Boat 10 at sea
Is buried at sea I believe

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

.............Ed

[PamG]

Hi Ed,

I had a great uncle that died in WWI. I couldn't find his death certificate in the GRO either, but on the off chance, I filled in the online request form anyway, and the GRO sent me his death certificate. So it might be worth a try.

regards,

Pam
Ontario, Canada

[Ed Bradford]

That's interesting Pam. So the GRO does keep track of military deaths as well. Since you didn't have GRO reference information (ie district, volume, page), did they charge more to look it up and provide the certificate? Also, what information did the certificate provide? I'm hoping that what Peter Nicholl finds is far more information than the typical certificate. ................Ed

[Mutley]

Hello Ed,
I don't know if WW1 and WW2 are the same regarding certificates.

I have a death certificate for WW2 found by a distant cousin some 15 years ago. She went somewhere in London, sorry I do not know where.
On the left hand side it states:
"an Entry in the Army War Records of Deaths 1939 - 1948
Across the top is:
"Certified copy of an entry of Death
Registration of Births, Deaths and Marriages (Special Provisions) Act 1957"
underneath this is:
Return of Warrant Officers, Non-Commissioned Officers and Men of the
XXHis RegimentXX
It then gives his army number and rank, name, age, Country of Birth, Date of
Death, Place of Death, Cause of Death (killed in action).

Everything lines up to be my uncle but I recently decided to try and track him further. His death was Italy in 1944. On the War Graves site for Beach Head, Anzio, Italy 1944 I found him, same name, same age, same regiment, same area of birth, same army number as the death certificate. Bingo!!

But a NO NO. The War Graves site states parents (the death certificate did not) and they are not my grandparents. So for 15 years we thought we had him and now I don't know.......

How can I be so close and so far? Not sure of the moral of this tale.....
Regards
Mutley

[Geoffers]

John W Bradford appears in the GRO War Deaths - Army Other Ranks

Bradford J.W, Pte 328114 (sic) Cambs 1918 I.64 406

William Bradford appears in the Naval War Deaths 1914-21

Bradford William J A D. AB HMTB 10, 1915 RN 422

Have you a copy of WJAD's service record from Documents online?

The Register of Great War Deaths shows John W H was born Stepney, enlisted Canning Town, was originally 21807 in the Essex Regt, but when he died was Pts 328118 of the Cambs Regt.

Geoffers

[Mutley]

I had some credits left on Military-Genealogy.com

Don't know if the link works, I could have emailed it to you but do not have email address.

JOHN WILLIAM HENRY BRADFORD Regiment, Corps etc
Cambridgeshire Regiment

Battalion/etc
1st Battalion.

Surname
Bradford

Christian Name
John William Henry

Initials
J W H

Born
Stepney, Middx.

Enlisted
Canning Town, Middx.

Residence


Rank
PRIVATE

Number
328118

Died Date
04/04/1918

Died How
Died of wounds

Theatre of War
France & Flanders

Supplementary Notes
FORMERLY 21807, ESSEX REGT

Regards
Mutley

[Mutley]

Not sure about William,
Any of the 14 sound like yours?

Surname Christian Name Initials Place of Birth Place of Residence

Bradford William W Heather, Leics Heather, Leics Add View 1 Credit
Bradford William W Ingrave, Essex Brentwood, Essex Add View 1 Credit
Bradford William W Corringham, Lincs Add View 1 Credit
Bradford William W Islington, Middx. Holloway, Middx. Add View 1 Credit
Bradford William W Houghton-le-spring, Durham Silksworth, Durham Add View 1 Credit
Bradford William Benjamin W B St. Augustine's, Bristol Add View 1 Credit
Bradford William Charles W C Greenwich Add View 1 Credit
Bradford William Elijah W E Great Wratting, Suffolk Great Wratting, Suffolk Add View 1 Credit
Bradford William Henry W H Exeter Exeter Add View 1 Credit
Bradford William Henry W H Barnes, Surrey Battersea, Surrey Add View 1 Credit
Bradford William Richard W R Brocton, Staffs Add View 1 Credit
Bradford William Robert W R Crayford, Kent Plumstead, Kent Add View 1 Credit
Bradford William Thomas W T Bermondsey, Surrey Addiscombe, Surrey Add View 1 Credit
Bradford William Thomas W T Hackney, N.e. Add View 1 Credit

[Mutley]

The results above came from a search in the Soldiers Died in the Great War 1914-19
I looked for William in the Royal Naval Division 1914-24 but no results.
I still have some credits left Ed. If you go to the site and find anything you are interested in then PM me with your email and I will email you what you ask for.

regards,
Mutley

[Mutley]

I also saved a .pdf file of the National Roll of the Great War.

There are 5 Bradford names on the page but I don't know if any are yours and I don't know how to send you a .pdf from my hard drive.

Regards,
Mutley

[peter nicholl]

Hi Ed

It's nice to see that you now have the info on John, the only things I would add are that other than his age, you will not gain any more information by getting his Death Certificate and Documents on Line at the TNA have the 1st Batt Cambridgeshire Regt War Diaries up to and including April 1918. April 1918 is on WO95/2590, however, "Other Ranks" seldom get a mention by name. Of course, he may have been wounded before April. Also, Ancestry in conjunction with TNA have the WW1 soldiers records on line. They only have surnames beginning A and B, so while some of us may have to wait|banghead| you're in luck as John is shown.
As for William he can be found in TNA Docs on line at ADM188/381, that is if he was born 23/11/1884. HM Torpedo Boat 10, aka HMS Greenfly, was sunk by either a torpedo or a mine. Her sister boat HMTB 12, aka HMS Moth, was lost on the same day, possibly at the same time. U-boats were used as mine layers.
Peter

Peter

[Ed Bradford]

Wow! Thanks all. I now have a lot to sort through. Peter, at one time a torpedo was a mine. During the American Civil War 1860-1865 a mine was referred to as a torpedo. I'm not a military historian and don't know when the two names came to define seperate entities. It is possible that torpedo continued to be used for a mine up into WWI. Again, thanks all.

By the way, I've turned email back on. I turned it off because if you go to Google and search on Ed Bradford up pops my British-Genealogy account. I was getting a lot of unwanted emails because of it. I'll leave it on until I start getting junk mail again.

.............Ed

[peter nicholl]

Hi Ed

Although Bushnell referred to mines as torpedoes, he and Colt in the US and Fulton in England were developing what we know as mines today. During WWI both sides used mines to great effect. The Allies planted some 76,000 Mk VI mines in the North Sea alone. The Germans operated U-boat mine-layers from Belgium.
You might like to see my website and go to the Trafalgar link and story, which touches on the development of MTBs.
Peter
P.S. The Boaters of London story shows what can be got from War Diaries.

[Mutley]

By the way, I've turned email back on. I turned it off because if you go to Google and search on Ed Bradford up pops my British-Genealogy account. I was getting a lot of unwanted emails because of it. I'll leave it on until I start getting junk mail again.

.............Ed

I've emailed you the pdf file so you can turn it off again if you wish.
Regards
Mutley

[Ed Bradford]

Got your email and I've replied. ...............Ed

[Mutley]

Hi Ed,
Thanks for reply.
Have you been to this site?

http://www.cwgc.org/

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r297/MutleyBG/BradfordGraves.jpg
... The Mut

[Ed Bradford]

Mutley, yes I have been to the War Graves site. Thanks for thinking of me though. ..........Ed

[PamG]

That's interesting Pam. So the GRO does keep track of military deaths as well. Since you didn't have GRO reference information (ie district, volume, page), did they charge more to look it up and provide the certificate? Also, what information did the certificate provide? I'm hoping that what Peter Nicholl finds is far more information than the typical certificate. ................Ed

Hi Ed,

Back in 2005 I e-mailed the Overseas Division of the GRO, using an e-mail address I found on their website. I told them I was looking for the death record of an ancestor who had died at sea during WWI.

They replied with the instructions to apply to their office for the death certificate, giving name at death; date and country of death; occupation at time of death (civilian/army/navy/RAF); my postal address and telephone number. The charge at the time for a full certificate was 11 pds 50 p. They mentioned that if they didn't have the entry, I would be charged only 4 pds 50 p for the search fee, and I would be notified in writing.

I received the certificate about ten days later - I don't have it here in front of me, as I'm at work, but I remember it looks a little different from a regular death certificate, but contains full death details, plus few extra military details.

I think it might be worth trying - the most you can lose is 4 pds 50.

regards,

Pam

[Peter Goodey]

I think it might be worth trying - the most you can lose is 4 pds 50
No. He has been provided with the GRO references and told how to find any more he needs. These will enable him to order certificates from Overseas Section at the standard GBP 7.