Stuck before I start !!

[Brenda in Cyprus]

I've got an 'orrible feeling I've been barking up the wrong "tree" When I started the only details I had of my Gran is that her maiden name was Alice Carter & her fathers name was Robert b & thats it! Some time ago a kind person did a look up for me & found these two Mile End Old Town & she was born in 1895 & Robert born in Essex so I've followed this up way back to 1724!
I've have now got a copy of her marriage cert giving her age as 24 in 1915 making her born around 1891, She married in Wales but she wasn't born there although it does give her Fathers name as Robert (deceased). No idea where she was born other than England.
Could I be following the wrong Alice!! Can't find her on the 1901 census HELP!!!
Brenda

[David Wilkins]

Hi Brenda,

You may be right and have the wrong Alice. Do you know if she had a middle christian name rather than just Alice? The marriage certificate you have is definitely your grandmothers? If it is you can search Free BMD say between 1890 and 1892 to try and get a birth certificate. I had a look and there are quite a few records. Have you any idea where she lived when she was young, even a county would help narrow the field? Have you a death certificate or are you able to establish when and where she died in order to get one, then you might be able to work backwards.

You may have thought about all this so I may be not much help. Good hunting something is sure to come up.

David Auckland NZ

[Pam Downes]

Hi Brenda,

According to the marriage certificate, how old was Alice compared to Robert? According to all the census, my friend's grandmother was 4 or 5 years older than her husband but parish registers prove that she was in fact 9 years older than him. I can't remember if the myth regarding her age was perpetuated when she died - her hubby had predeceased her so she might have 'fessed up to her children - so even ages quoted on death certificates may have to be taken with a pinch of salt.
If looking for BMD you must remember that you need the full GRO Index, not just FreeBMD which at the moment is incomplete.
I must admit that this is a real |banghead| not helped by the fact that you can't find Alice on the 1901.
So, back to basics. Question one. Are you absolutely 100% certain without a shadow of a doubt that you have the correct marriage certificate?
Then, if I were you I'd start a process of elimination. (Sorry if you've already done this.) Join Ancestry (you can join for 3 months and it will be cheaper than individual images from 1901 online, though you can often get a free 14-day trial but keep a printed record of all the pages that you complete and they reply with so you have *precise* details on how to cancel). Buy some units on 1837online
http://www.1837online.com/Trace2web/
and search for all Alice Carters born 1890 - 1896. Using the registration districts quoted on the GRO and the list of places contained in those districts as per
http://www.fhsc.org.uk/genuki/REG/
try to 'marry' those Alices with the ones on the 1901 (and 1891 -which is also on Ancestry- for those born 1890 and very early in 1891).
You can also on the census enter just the name 'Alice' and specify an age to see if Alice's surname has been mistranscribed.
(BTW all this is based on the 'Brenda from Cyprus' signature, where I know there is no LDS FHC or county Record Office which might help to keep down some of the costs.)

Good luck.

Pam

[Geoffers]

Hello
No real answers, just some questions which I'd be thinking in your shoes......

[my Gran....was Alice Carter & her fathers name was Robert b & thats it!]

What source do you have for this, word of mouth, or some written record?

[Some time ago a kind person did a look up for me & found these two Mile End Old Town & she was born in 1895 & Robert born in Essex]

Do you have her death certificate (and that of her husband) giving age at death? Did she/they die fairly recently so that the certificate includes place of birth?

In what source did the person find the record of them in London? Carter is a commonly occuring name are you sure this is the correct Alice + Robert? Is the source her birth certificate? If so what was her father's occupation?

[I've have now got a copy of her marriage cert giving her age as 24 in 1915 making her born around 1891]

Did she marry under the age of 21 which would need consent of parent/guardian? Was it inconvenient to get this consent or did her dad disapprove? If so, maybe she added a few years to avoid the problem?

If her dad was dead, did he leave a will? Does the will mention other children who you might use to trace the family in the 1901 census?

[She married in Wales but she wasn't born there]

The question that springs to mind is 'why Wales'? Was her husband in the army and it seemed agood idea to marry before he was shipped off to the front?

Geoffers

[Guy Etchells]

If I have read your posting correctly you have missed a number of vital early steps in your research.
Am I correct in believing you are starting with your Gran, if so forget it, start with yourself and your own birth certificate the concentrate on your mum & dad. Get their marriage certificate and birth certificates and work from the information supplied on those.
It is an unfortunate fact that many genealogist have traced the wrong lineage by simply missing the basic steps.
Cheers
Guy

[Jo Simpsons]

The information you have for Robert and Alice was that from 1901 census? I have just been looking and on the 1901 census, Cresswell Road, Twickenham, Middlesex there is a

Robert W Carter, 34, coachman domestic, Essex, Tolle(r)shunt D'Arcy

Eliza A, 32, Essex, Tolle(r)shunt D'Arcy

Robert J, 9, London, Mile End Old Town

Alice E, 6, London, Mile End old Town
It doesn't look like a B for Roberts middle name, it is a W. Do you have your Grans Birth Certificate?
Jo

[Brenda in Cyprus]

Thank you all so much.you've certainly given me a lot of things to think about.I have her original marriage & death certs that my mother (Alice's daughter) gave to me.
The marriage cert gives her age as 24 in 1915 & at her death in 1956 she was 64- by the way her father is named as Robert- the B was a slip of my typing finger!
The details that you found Jo were the ones I worked on in the beginning as they sounded feasible- bit of a problem doing hands on from here in Cyprus. My Mum had no idea where her Mother was born so I didn't have a lot to go on.
Good advice Guy- I did start with me & my parents & then their parents. I actually knew Alice & her husband Albert Parker before their deaths & had no trouble with the other lines I have followed to way back. It was just the descrepency between her age on marriage & death certs making her born 1891/2 & her age on the 1901 census
(6) that got me wondering if the Alice born in Mile End Old Town was actually my Alice.
I am hoping it could be a transcribers mistake!
My Mum seems to think they married in Wales because she was in an "interesting"
condition & my Grandfather used to work in Wales a lot. She apparently lost the baby a couple of months after they married.
I am fairly sure this is my Alice but still have this niggling doubt. I wish I could find someone else doing the same tree- if onmessage=Thank you all so much.you've certainly given me a lot of things to think about.I have her original marriage & death certs that my mother (Alice's daughter) gave to me.
The marriage cert gives her age as 24 in 1915 & at her death in 1956 she was 64- by the way her father is named as Robert- the B was a slip of my typing finger!
The details that you found Jo were the ones I worked on in the beginning as they sounded feasible- bit of a problem doing hands on from here in Cyprus. My Mum had no idea where her Mother was born so I didn't have a lot to go on.
Good advice Guy- I did start with me & my parents & then their parents. I actually knew Alice & her husband Albert Parker before their deaths & had no trouble with the other lines I have followed to way back. It was just the descrepency between her age on marriage & death certs making her born 1891/2 & her age on the 1901 census
(6) that got me wondering if the Alice born in Mile End Old Town was actually my Alice.
I am hoping it could be a transcribers mistake!
My Mum seems to think they married in Wales because she was in an "interesting"
condition & my Grandfather used to work in Wales a lot. She apparently lost the baby a couple of months after they married.
I am fairly sure this is my Alice but still have this niggling doubt. I wish I could find someone else doing the same tree- if only life was that simple !
Brenda

[Pam Downes]

Brenda,
I've just noticed that you didn't say, and none of us asked, where the look-up was for that found Alice and Robert in Mile End Old Town. Would you like to give us the full details of what was found and where?

Pam Downes

[Brenda in Cyprus]

Hi Pam
Back in April when I started on this "quest" I requested a look up on the Genes Connected site & a kind lady came up with the same info as Jo (earlier reply) This was from the official 1901 census & the only one with both Alice & Robert named.I followed this line back to 1724 no probs but then Mum found the marriage & birth certs & the ages didn't tie up. Just can't think of anywhere else to look for her birthplace
Brenda

[Brenda in Cyprus]

Hi Mythology
You've have pointed out the very things that aroused my doubts! I really don't know where to go from here with so little info & I'll be really miffed if I've been following the wrong Carters. The are no other family members who knew where she was born so it looks like stalemate or am I giving in too easily?
Brenda

[Jo Simpsons]

Don't give up Brenda. :)
You may well be on the right path, a couple of years here and there are nothing!
Best thing is going over what you know for certain.
Is this your Mums side or Dads? What do you know about the family you are looking at?
Go through it from scratch with us, you may get some where or you may have the right one!:D
Jo :)

[Brenda in Cyprus]

Thanks Jo & Myth (can I call you that!)
Really good advice from both of you. I've just spent ages going through lists of probables just in case something turns up at a later date. I think I might leave it for a while & go back to it in a couple of weeks- I feel a bit mind-boggled at the mo! Roll on the 1911 censuRegards
Brenda