Robins and Irons of Redditch

[exhall161]

Benjamin Robins married Sarah Irons 22 Sep 1822 Saint Bartholomew Church, Tardebigge,
Sarah was the sister of Elizabeth Irons who married Thomas Chesterton 08 Sep 1823, and Anne Irons who married Richard Chesterton 28 Dec 1815.
Looking for Benjamin and Sarah's births/c records and possible connections to the Tandy family.
Their first child Ellen Robins married Brandon Laight 09 Dec 1844 (of 13 and 15, Edward Street Redditch).
(Brandon was the brother of Charles Laight of 8, Bromsgrove Road).
Benjamin died 1838 to 1851, no trace of his demise.
Is anyone researching any of these families?
Any help would be appreciated!
connections: Church Lane, Long Crendon Buckinghamshire:
Cattell (Cattle) Bridge Street, St. Thomas, Oxford:
Ann Maria Wilkes of Walford Street Redditch.

[jeeb]

Hi,
You seem to have done considerable research yourself but it looks like Sarah Irons came from Alcester where Ellen was baptised. There is also an apparent connection with Job & Ann Jenkins of Pershore. If you are unaware of this please let me know.

Cheers Jeremy.

[Yegvard]

Hi

Have you checked the 1841 census for Benjamin?

In the 1851 census of Redditch two children, Thomas and Sarah, appear to be at home with mum. Have you seen their marriage certificates and do these indicate that Benjamin is dead? He might be too old to be a soldier, but he may have emmigrated in front of the rest of the family and then died, disappeared, found another woman, etc, etc. He may have gone to prison. have you checked the Petty & Quarter sessions? A long shot may be The National Burial Index. This may also help, just in case his death never made it to the registers, but he would still have to be buried.

Other thoughts:

There are marriage indexes for both Worcestershire & Warwickshire for this time period, prepared by BMSGH, ie pre 1837.

The IGI doesn't look helpful but the LDS British Vital Record Index II may have something.

You might get an exact date of birth for Ellen if she was delivered by Dr. Taylor. Hundreds of births recorded throughtout his career. Book held in Redditch Library.

Watch out a variant of IRONS may be HIRONS, or the other way round.

Cheers

Mike

[jeeb]

Hi

Have you checked the 1841 census for Benjamin?

In the 1851 census of Redditch two children, Thomas and Sarah, appear to be at home with mum. Have you seen their marriage certificates and do these indicate that Benjamin is dead?

The 1851 census states Sarah is a widow and Benjamin isn't with her in 1841 either.

Cheers Jeremy

[exhall161]

Hi,
You seem to have done considerable research yourself but it looks like Sarah Irons came from Alcester where Ellen was baptised. There is also an apparent connection with Job & Ann Jenkins of Pershore. If you are unaware of this please let me know.
Cheers Jeremy.
Hi,
It would appear Sarah's father William Irons 02 May 1773 came from Pershore, have found her sister's baptisms in Feckenham, but not Sarah's. (connected via witnesses on Benjamin and Sarah's marriage 22 Sep 1822).
I like the Alcester!
Very interested in your apparent connection, the best 1841 fit for 2 of Benjamin's children who are not with "Mum" Sarah is the following 1841 census.
I have been unable to find any other connection to the Jenkin's!
If you have found another possible connection I would like to hear?

Thanks for your time Peter.

{1841 Census Shows Mother Sarah Robins with her Children Ellen, Elizabeth, Sarah and George Robins aged 1 year. Son John Robins was away recorded as Jno Robbins abt 1832 Worcestershire, St Andrew Pershore Worcestershire with Sarah's second son Thos Robbins abt 1834
(Living next door to Jos Newall, Tailor)... [Benjamin was a Tailor]
Living with Blacksmith Job Jenkins abt 1801 and his wife Ann Jenkins nee Collins abt 1806 and their children}.

[exhall161]

Thanks Mike.
Sent an e-mail this morning to LDS British Vital Record Index II. I will post result.
re: 1841 census, please see my reply to "jeeb"
Your help is very much appreciated
Peter

[jeeb]

Hi Peter,
I question at this stage that the William Iron in Feckenham is the correct father of your Sarah or indeed Ann & Elizabeth who marry Chestertons.

The 1841 census has Richard & Ann Chesterton in Tardebigge (Worcs) both stating not born in county. A Samuel Hiorns age 40 is next door also saying no to born in county. There is also Thomas & Elizabeth Chesterton in Tardebigge stating no to born in county although they are aged 50 & 55.

The 1851 census has Ann, (Wrongly indexed but her all the same) a widow in Redditch with her children giving Redditch as the birthplace for all and states her age as 49.

The 1861 census is far more useful. She is still in Redditch with several children all born Redditch but Ann gives her age as 63 and born Alcester.

(Ring any bells!!)

Cheers Jeremy

[exhall161]

Hi Jeremy
Thanks again for your respected input.
I have other possible parents who would almost fit (rather old)
these would fit in with a Jemima Irons who was a witness at Elizabeth Irons marriage. (see below)
I am going to re-visit this family group again, there does seem to be some questions to answer!
Point of interest: Feckenham is in Worcestershire, a mile or so east is the district of Alcester, Warwickshire.

Children of William Irons and Elizabeth Barton are Elizabeth Irons 21 Jul 1799 Feckenham and
Anne Irons 22 Jun 1800 Feckenham. Sarah Irons Abt. 1802 (from Alcester) does seem to fit.
The Samuel Hiorns 1801 is possibly son of Samuel and Elizabeth.
Thomas Chesterton death J/F/M 1850. Richard Chesterton death A/M/J 1846. (Which fit with the census).
{Witnesses at the marriage of Elizabeth Irons and Thomas Chesterton 8th September 1823 were Thomas Perks and Jemima Perks (formerly Irons) who were married on the 31st August 1812 at St. Bartholomew Church, Tardebigg Worcestershire. (Registered Saint Martin, Birmingham, Warwickshire). Jemima Irons born 28 Feb 1797 Bishops Itchington, Warwickshire.
Parents Thomas Irons and Prudence Smith from Chesterton, Warwickshire}.
[The witnesses at the marriage of Ann Irons (Hirons) and Richard Chesterton on the 28th December 1815 at Alcester Warwickshire, were John Ferrymore and Elizabeth Irons (Hirons)] Elizabeth Irons was probably Sarah's sister.

Benjamin Robins last child George Robins born 21 Aug 1839, His Death on the 24th September 1844. Registered by Ann Chesterton from Redditch on the 25th September 1844 who was in attendance at death in Tardebigg, Worcestershire. Son of Benjamin Robins, Tailor. (Ann Chesterton is Sarah Robins's (nee Irons) married Sister).

Cheers Peter.

[jeeb]

Hi Peter,
I had found most of what you have written and most fits nicely together except if Ann is William & Elizabeth's daughter she would have only been 15 at marriage, possible buy unlikely. The 1861 gives her age as 63 which is likely to be the most accurate. The Samuel Hirons living next door to Ann in 1841 is aged 40-45.

The Elizabeth and Thomas Chesterton in Tardebigge in 1841 are aged 50-55. The marriage of Thos & Elizabeth was witnessed by Jemima Perks nee Irons. Thomas & Prudence Irons have a Jemima in 1797 at Bishops Itchington, they also have Elizabeth in 1791. This would mean Jemima & Elizabeth are sisters, hence the witness at Elizabeth's wedding. I suggest it probable Ann Chesterton & Sarah Irons are sisters, (both born Alcester) but not to Elizabeth & Jemima, they may be their aunts or cousins.

The William & Elizabeth at Feckenham are Iron which is more distinct from Irons/Hirons. Incidentally I know Feckenham well, I live about 5 miles from there and travel through it at least once a week.

[exhall161]

Hi Jeremy,
I find what you have researched to be very likely, however I still hit the same brick wall.
I can not find Benjamin Robins or Sarah Irons Birth / Baptism records.
Their possible siblings seem to be no problem!
A response from "Yegvard" yesterday mentioned a "Dr. Taylor's book" held at Redditch Library.
Apparently this book details all the births which he attended, listing the child's sex and the mother's name.
However it appears the only access to this book is at the Library, and they have no researchers.

Do you know of anyone who would be able to search these Dr. Taylor's records for me?
Benjamin Robins born 1795 to 1805 and Sarah Irons born 1795 to 1805.

Thank you again for your efforts.
Peter (Robins).

Information on Sarah Robins nee Irons: (Census shows her birth years as 1806, 1804, 1803, 1801) (Death shows 1802).
"Death Certificate of Sarah Robins (Formerly Irons) of Edward Street, Redditch. Widow of Benjamin Robins, Tailor. Death at the age of 78 years Registered by her Married Son John Robins from Walford Street, Redditch. Registered on the 27th October 1880. Death certified by her Doctor William Smith".

I have no death date for Benjamin Robins.
I have checked copies of every possible Death Certificate from every part of the country from 1837 to 1853 with no success! His last child born 21 Aug 1839. Sarah widow 1851. Even tried "Benjamin Tailor's death record, plus many other derivatives!

[jeeb]

Hi Peter,
I compiled the Worcestershire Burial index and both Tardebigge & Redditch are included to end of 1840. This index is now in the possession of BMSGH and their information can be found online. There is a small charge but it may be an avenue you have not tried. The index is controlled by a Mr Albert Watkins now. I do not go to Redditch library but It may be possible to find someone who does, I'll make enquires.

Jeremy

[exhall161]

Jeremy
I have checked the National Burial Index 2nd Edition, no Benjamin Robins.
The CDs were well worth purchasing, as there were many other positive results!
It's nice to have that extra date and place.
Hope you do find someone in Redditch! The Dr. Taylor's book sounds very interesting.
Thank you.
Peter

[jeeb]

Hi Peter,
Does the National Burial Index show a Benjamin Robins buried Stourbridge area in 1839. There is a death recorded Stourbridge Jul/Sep 1839 Vol 18 Page 271. I know it is a long shot because there were Robins in that area but if your Benjamin came from there and died on a visit or such he would be recorded there. Just a thought.
Jeremy

[exhall161]

Hi Jeremy,
Thanks for the input, however I have already visited the Stourbridge deaths.
The Benjamin Robins death certificate you mention reads as follows.
"24th July 1839 at The Lye, Benjamin Robins, Male, Age 7 years, Consumption, The mark of Mary Robins present at death Widow Lye, registered 26th of July 1839".
I think I will post all of the Benjamin Robins death records I have, it may help someone one day? Which is every death from 1837 to 1851 from the whole of England and Wales, (less 1 in Stourbridge, which I am sure is a 4 year old).
I hope this response does not put you off trying to help!! I am desperate for someones help.

Many thanks Peter.

(I believe the family had some lovely Roses growing, on a mound at the bottom of their garden! maybe thats a clue?).

[jeeb]

Jeremy

It's nice to have that extra date and place.
Hope you do find someone in Redditch! The Dr. Taylor's book sounds very interesting.
Thank you.
Peter

Hi Peter,
I have found someone who will go to Redditch library for you. What would you like her to look for? I do not hold out a lot of hope of finding Sarah at least because I think she was born in Alcester and I think that it would have been unlikely for a doctor to travel that distance regularly to attend a birth.
Incidently I walked past Alcester church last night and wondered what secrets it held for you!

Jeremy

[exhall161]

I have found someone who will go to Redditch library for you. What would you like her to look for? I do not hold out a lot of hope of finding Sarah.

Hello Jeremy,
It was great to see your reply, perhaps your walk past the church last night is a good omen! One can only hope! Please thank your friend for me, and thank your for time. Peter.

Please find everything that maybe
of help to your friend, please note there are 2 known births for
Benjamin's children, my thought was, if they are recorded
then probably they all are, (or not).
I believe "Dr. Taylor's Book" has a record of the births of the children
that he attended,
he recorded the Mothers name, the sex of the child and the date.
Therefore I am specifically looking for the birth of my direct ancestor
Benjamin Robins, about 1800.
The only Facts I have is that he was a "Tailor" and he married
Sarah Irons on the 22nd September 1822 at Saint Bartholomew Church,
Tardebigge.
Their children's baptism's were at "The Chapelry of Redditch",
except for their first child, Ellen.
Their are NO baptismal or bishop's transcript records for
Benjamin Robins in Alcester or Redditch

.....The Births of Rob(b)ins from 1784 to 1804.

The Birth of the following Rob(b)ins,
Ellen Robins:................................... Baptism 02 Nov 1823: Alcester
Elizabeth Robins: Born 10 Feb 1826: Baptism 10 Jun 1832, (correct date)
John Robins:.................................... Baptism 12 Dec 1831
Thomas Robins:............................... Baptism 09 Feb 1834
Sarah Robins:.................................. Baptism 08 Feb 1836
George Robins: Born 21 Aug 1839:.... Baptism 15 Sep 1839.

[jeeb]

Hi Peter,
These burials are interesting:-

George Robins 10 March 1745/6 Bordesley Chapelry Tardebigge
Ann wife of George 9 Feb 1750/1 Bordesley Chapelry Tardebigge

There are other Robins burials there too which suggests the family name was in the parish. Benjamin names his youngest son George again suggesting the probable connection with the above mentioned burials. (Maybe Benjamin's grandparents!!) From what I have found and information you have given me I think it highly likely Benjamin would have been born in Tardebigge.

William Robins buried Redditch St Stephen 23 May 1831 age 2

Is this a child of Benjamin & Sarah, he would fit nicely in the gap between Elizabeth & John, ie born 1829? If they hadn't baptised Elizabeth until she was 4 then it is possible this William may not be baptised either.

Jeremy

[exhall161]

Hi Peter,
These burials are interesting:-

George Robins 10 March 1745/6 Bordesley Chapelry Tardebigge
Ann wife of George 9 Feb 1750/1 Bordesley Chapelry Tardebigge

There are other Robins burials there too which suggests the family name was in the parish. Benjamin names his youngest son George again suggesting the probable connection with the above mentioned burials. (Maybe Benjamin's grandparents!!) From what I have found and information you have given me I think it highly likely Benjamin would have been born in Tardebigge.

William Robins buried Redditch St Stephen 23 May 1831 age 2

Is this a child of Benjamin & Sarah, he would fit nicely in the gap between Elizabeth & John, ie born 1829? If they hadn't baptised Elizabeth until she was 4 then it is possible this William may not be baptised either.

Jeremy

Hello Jeremy,
I like the William Robins of 1831, it is a perfect fit as you say, he is now listed in family with a "note". (a new one for me).
Some time ago I thought William Robins who married Hannah Brettle 09 Dec 1798 in Tardebigg seemed to be a good fit for Benjamin's parents. (Witnesses Isaac Anderton and Richard Bradshaw.[no connectios found]). and possibly William Robins b. 1799 living as a Carpenter in Headless Cross, Tardebigge, with his wife Ann, 1841 census. (Only marriage found for William and Ann is 14 Dec 1826 in Souldern, Oxford) This may sound far fetched, however Benjamin's 2nd daughter Elizabeth married Edward Cattle 24 May 1863 The Registry Office, Oxford, a witness was Emma Robins b 1845, (Oxford Birth ordered last week), daughter of Daniel Robins of Oxford. Elizabeth was looking after her married sister Ellen's last child, George Laight (1871 census) in Oxford.
Now: if I can find a link with the George Robins and Ann which you have found, (a new one on me), may be getting somewhere, I will post if I find anything!!
Sometimes I think I am "to close" and your new perspective is "just what the doctor ordered"!!!
Amazing result, Peter.